#10345485, By otto The UK General Politics Thread

  • otto Moderator 29 May 2014 10:04:56 49,322 posts
    Seen 1 year ago
    Registered 16 years ago
    RedSparrows wrote:
    otto, can you offer us your thoughts on this whole UKIP-EU business?
    Well, most of my thoughts are on my blog, but here's the tldr version, fwiw:

    - UKIP are a bunch of cunts
    - the far right vote in the UK is more or less steady from election to election, this year it went to UKIP, last time it went to them plus BNP, sadly around 10% of our electorate are shocking cunts
    - it looks bigger at Euro election time because of the shocking turnout
    - desperately low turnout is the real story here - why do people feel so disconnected to the political process?
    - media coverage this time around has been truly unbelievable, even by UK standards - kipper momentum is entirely down to blanket coverage by the BBC.
    - UKIP are cunts
    - but we can't simply ignore the fact that a significant number of people right across the EU don't feel connected to it, it doesn't seem to matter what we do to make it democratically accountable
    - whenever I get into any kind of discussion about the EU, it always ends up in the same place: "yeah but there's no EU 'demos'" - on most levels, this is a pathetic cop-out, it means they've run out of actual arguments, but...
    - ...although it's not an argument that has any traction with me at all, it clearly seems to mean something to people - there's an emotional connection that these people have with the national tier of government that they don't feel with the European (and often local) tiers of government.
    - UKIP are a shower of lazy cunts

    My thinking is evolving at the moment. I've always been a hard-core federalist, but I'm beginning to feel hopeless. There's no rational arguing with people who simply deny the possibility of Europe-wide politics, in the face of its evident existence. I'm beginning to think we should just stop even trying. Seems a waste of effort. We should stop tinkering with the EU to try to make it more democratic (it's already way more democratic than the UK) and focus on delivering decent policy in places where it would do some good. That by the way means reform but reform of the institutions to make them less shit, not reform driven by ideological nutters who just want to dismantle the entire thing.
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