Dougs wrote:Yep, he says the same. His sister, also a teacher, is currently working at GAME, simply cos she's sick of the red tape shit. Both love teaching, both hate the the actual job cos of the red tape. Also, he's 26 surrounded by many nubile 16 year olds. Never a good thing long term. |
Public sector pay overhaul planned • Page 2
-
Lutz 48,870 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 18 years ago -
Killerbee 5,249 posts
Seen 11 hours ago
Registered 20 years agogang_of_bitches wrote:
This always surprises me. Did teachers never notice while they were at school that kids are little shits?
Heh. Very true, but I think you have a very different outlook on things as a schoolkid than you do as a teacher. As a child, being "naughty" and winding up teachers is all part of the fun. It's very different being on the receiving end when your job is on the line if you can't cope with classroom control.
There are also massively different experiences to be had depending on which school or which area of the country you happen to be lucky enough to find a job in. My wife did a brief stint as a supply teacher in an inner-city Nottingham school and had to put up with physical violence between pupils; chair throwing; blatant rudeness and everything else that youngsters who don't want to be in school will display. She hated it and wanted to leave teaching. A few months later, she landed a job in a nice church school in a fairly well-off village to the north of the city and she really thrived. Yes, there was still bad behaviour, but the kids did fundamentally know - and care - about what was right and wrong. They knew they were there to learn and as long as you were a good teacher and made the subject interesting enough, they would pay attention and show some respect.
You'd never get me going into teaching - not because I don't like working with people or communicating my knowledge to others; simply because I'd want to beat up all the little shits, and that'd probably get me fired. -
PazJohnMitch 17,276 posts
Seen 12 hours ago
Registered 14 years agoAn overhaul in the public sector pay is required. Although not the one that is proposed.
Essentially all the people that are in positions where they can choose how much to pay themselves are paid too much. There are many parts in the public sector that this is the case. Large numbers of people in the government and politics are paid far more than they deserve. These people need to be have rises below inflation to address this issue.
However doctors and teachers, (Among many other service providing people), are underpaid. Essentially the people that decide how much to give the NHS and education need to stop taking as much for themselves and start giving it to the people that deserve it.
Of course that will never happen. -
gang_of_bitches 5,707 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 16 years agoPazJohnMitch wrote:
An overhaul in the public sector pay is required. Although not the one that is proposed.
Essentially all the people that are in positions where they can choose how much to pay themselves are paid too much. There are many parts in the public sector that this is the case. Large numbers of people in the government and politics are paid far more than they deserve. These people need to be have rises below inflation to address this issue.
However doctors and teachers, (Among many other service providing people), are underpaid. Essentially the people that decide how much to give the NHS and education need to stop taking as much for themselves and start giving it to the people that deserve it.
Of course that will never happen.
The problem is, not getting into the rights and wrongs of it, the policy makers are such an insignificant number of people that any pay rise they award themselves will have absolutely no effect.
Give quarter of a million nurses a payrise and not only are you talking about a whole lot of money, a £1000 payrise working on the 250,000 nurses example (I have no idea how many there are, though the NHS has 1.3m employees) would be £250,000,000. That's a lot of money.
Doctors have actually done very well over the last few years. -
Red-Moose 5,344 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 19 years agoDaisyD wrote:
Now I know I'm biased and therefore always interested in news like this, but there is something I really don't get. Maybe one of you more up on how things like inflation works can answer me. When I read the article this morning it said something about keeping public sector pay increases under inflation in order to help tackle inflation amidst price increases in fuel and food. I think they've taken that bit out now, but there are similarly phrased bits in still. My question is how does keeping the public sector pay down keep companies from increasing fuel and food costs? Are they not all set by the private sector? Wouldn't it just mean that the public sector will just be facing bigger bills year in year out with not enough pay increase to cover the extras?
What it means is:
1) We (the government) do not want to pay as much money
2) the public sectors have unions and will complain easily
3) lets spin it as if it's useful but in actual fact we only have control over public sector pay and private sector is quite chaotic
4) Hopefully we won't turn into Zimbabwe
It's all just money saving by government and has damn all to do with inflation. Net result = public sector pay costs go down, inflation continues whatever it is by people they can't control anyway. -
ScoutTech 2,428 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 17 years agoJediMasterMalik wrote:
Don't forget that teachers aren't the only educational public workers or the only public sector workers. You should try and get hold of a support staff pay scale. Considering that covers everything from part time dinner lady, all the way through caretakers, finance people, TAs (who are used as spare teachers now) up to tech people, it really is poor. You have finance people dealing with multi-million pound budgets, managing fairly large facilities, huge payrolls & a fair few staff earning not that great amounts. Fully qualified Network bods running networks on their own that private sector teams would back away from on about the same as trainee teachers. It is completely crazy!
mwtb wrote:
Teachers pay scales for maintained schools outside London:
http://www.atl.org.uk/atl_en/pay/pay_calc/teachers/maintained/payscalesschool.asp
Terrible? Considering the hours, they seem okay to me. If you advance and have good skills you can be earning a pretty tidy sum.
My mum's a teacher in bradford, those hours no where near cover how much work you're actually doing. A lot of planning is required for every single lesson. It's not just done on the fly. -
Dougs 100,414 posts
Seen 13 hours ago
Registered 18 years agoMy wife is support staff in a school (Teacher's Assistant) - less than £11k a year for what is sometimes doing the same as a teacher, just one on one and without the planning. Utter shite. Considering she's got a degree and a post-grad diploma, it's no wonder she gets the hump about it. Still, at least it's a job, in an area of very high unemployment. -
My mother does the same, and she's probably the best french teacher out there, bar the head of langs- who uses her skills quite wisely. She definitely deserves at least holiday pay like teachers- but it's pro-rata'd. -
GitSomE_UK 1,206 posts
Seen 7 days ago
Registered 17 years agoOne thing is for certain, if the government suggested it then it won't be of any benefit to the public sector workers. Government is only interested in saving money and not the public sector worker. -
The_Aardvark 3,063 posts
Seen 9 years ago
Registered 16 years agomwtb wrote:
DaisyD wrote:
What hours exactly do you think a teacher does?
The teachers I'm aware of do around 40 a week on average, more some periods of the year and fewer others. The better organised ones fare better than the less, obviously. Why?
Every teacher that I know (and I know lots) does 50-60 hours a week or more in term time. -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agoThis is the problem with the unions. Teachers and nurses wind up fighting for the same pay raises as cuntcil workers and other public sector employees who do nothing of worth or that could not be done efficiently by a third of the number of people actually employed.
Ganging up to fight as one mass may seem to have advantages but not really. -
I think the problem around this topic is that, for whatever reason, Joe Average (and I include myself in this) has a tendancy to look at the words
Public sector worker
And instead of equating that to a nurse / police officer, it conjures up the image of a lazy bureaucratic civil servant, sitting in an office on a big, fat pension and being generally shit and lazy.
Otherwise they'd have got themselves proper jobs, innit. -
chopsen 21,958 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoRe; Teachers.
I could never be one because I just hate kids too much
..BUT...
six weeks holiday in the summer. That's more than I get all year. Then there's the 1 or 2 weeks holidays on top of that.
Not to be sniffed at that.
/realises everybody hates him now -
DaisyD 11,816 posts
Seen 5 years ago
Registered 16 years agoDon't forget Teacher's get paid Pro Rata due to their leave. Plus, they don't actally get the same leave as the kids holidays are. There is plenty of work and training seesions to do ove part of the holidays.
Please alsoremember teachers aren't the only public sector workers. Nurses for example are very badly paid. -
chopsen 21,958 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoOh I know, I come from a family of teachers (extended family who live in a deprived area but are all graduates: what else they going to do? 
)
But in terms of their final take home salary per year, their leave is pretty generous regardless if it's calculated pro-rata or not.
Nurses I have a lot of sympathy for. They have (sometimes literally) shitty jobs, I'm amazed they can stick it as a carrer tbh. -
DaisyD 11,816 posts
Seen 5 years ago
Registered 16 years agoUs Police don't exactly get it easy either! It's not even 2 weeks since another one was shot yet again! -
mwtb 2,381 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 17 years agoJust out of interest, what is a "fair" salary for these groups? -
DaisyD 11,816 posts
Seen 5 years ago
Registered 16 years agoI guess that depends on what job they do. What do you do, how much do you get paid and do you think that's fair pay? -
mwtb 2,381 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 17 years agoBy "these groups" I mean the teachers, police, nurses and we may as well stick firemen in there too who have become the topic of conversation.
I am not a public employee, I just pay the taxes, so my income doesn't seem relevant. -
chopsen 21,958 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 16 years agomwtb wrote:
I am not a public employee, I just pay the taxes, so my income doesn't seem relevant.
It does, unless you think "fair" means means something different depending on who you are. -
SirScratchalot 7,921 posts
Seen 1 year ago
Registered 16 years agomwtb wrote:
Teachers pay scales for maintained schools outside London:
http://www.atl.org.uk/atl_en/pay/pay_calc/teachers/maintained/payscalesschool.asp
Terrible? Considering the hours, they seem okay to me. If you advance and have good skills you can be earning a pretty tidy sum.
Teaching seems to be pretty much around the clock nowadays. Don't think when the kids leave the teacher is really free, gods just dealing with the god damn parents. And there's always one per class that keeps calling every day around dinner. -
mwtb 2,381 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 17 years agoChopsen wrote:
mwtb wrote:
I am not a public employee, I just pay the taxes, so my income doesn't seem relevant.
It does, unless you think "fair" means means something different depending on who you are.
Eh? Obviously different people will think fair means different things, that's why I asked the question. I seriously doubt anyone bases their judgement of what is fair pay for a nurse on what I get paid though. If they did, I would have thought Gordo would have given me a bell about it. -
DaisyD 11,816 posts
Seen 5 years ago
Registered 16 years agomwtb wrote:
Don't forget Prison Officer.
By "these groups" I mean the teachers, police, nurses and we may as well stick firemen in there too who have become the topic of conversation.
I am not a public employee, I just pay the taxes, so my income doesn't seem relevant.
Private sector pay should be a good thing to compare it to. Why should you get more than a public sector worker who deals with shit daily. They have just the same requirements as a private sector worker too - housing, kids, holidays etc. -
chopsen 21,958 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 16 years agomwtb wrote:
Chopsen wrote:
mwtb wrote:
I am not a public employee, I just pay the taxes, so my income doesn't seem relevant.
It does, unless you think "fair" means means something different depending on who you are.
Eh? Obviously different people will think fair means different things, that's why I asked the question. I seriously doubt anyone bases their judgement of what is fair pay for a nurse on what I get paid though. If they did, I would have thought Gordo would have given me a bell about it.
What I meant was you seem to imply that what is fair is different for public sector and private sector employees. Why? The level of risk/level of responisibility/conditions of work/antisocial hours would dictate what is "fair" pay or not, not whether your pay comes out of the public purse.
edit: god that was badly written -
Ginger 7,256 posts
Seen 2 weeks ago
Registered 19 years agoSirScratchalot wrote:
WTF? WHy give them your personal number?
mwtb wrote:
Teachers pay scales for maintained schools outside London:
http://www.atl.org.uk/atl_en/pay/pay_calc/teachers/maintained/payscalesschool.asp
Terrible? Considering the hours, they seem okay to me. If you advance and have good skills you can be earning a pretty tidy sum.
Teaching seems to be pretty much around the clock nowadays. Don't think when the kids leave the teacher is really free, gods just dealing with the god damn parents. And there's always one per class that keeps calling every day around dinner. -
mwtb 2,381 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 17 years agoOkay, let's be more specific. I don't do a comparable job in the private sector. I wasn't suggesting that there should or should not be a general wage gap. The question is simply, "What do you think these people should be paid?". -
chopsen 21,958 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoDunno. A fiver?
edit: I'm expecting change tho. -
DaisyD 11,816 posts
Seen 5 years ago
Registered 16 years agoWhat do you think a decent wage should be for a police officer? Or maybe a nurse? -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agoWhat about scaffies? We need them just as badly as teachers and coppers and they have a fairly unpleasant job by defintion.
WHY NO SCAFFIE LOVE? -
Khanivor wrote:
What's a Scaffie? The only Scaffie I know is a Dinghy!
What about scaffies? We need them just as badly as teachers and coppers and they have a fairly unpleasant job by defintion.
WHY NO SCAFFIE LOVE?
)Sometimes posts may contain links to online retail stores. If you click on one and make a purchase we may receive a small commission. For more information, go here.
