Which is best, Foundation series or Dune series? Page 3

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  • Technoishmatt 24 Dec 2016 16:28:29 4,287 posts
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    Bollox. Asimov was a genius. Robot detective stories, short stories, foundation - all ace!
  • anephric 24 Dec 2016 19:06:25 4,207 posts
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    I never thought much of Asimov as a writer, so whatever lofty ideas Foundation has (and I see why people like it) I can't get past the thudding prose and terrible characters.

    Dune (and Dune Messiah) are terrific. Absolutely, my favourite SF novel (and Herbert dialled back the SF elements in successive drafts - his first ones had much more conventionally SF concepts).

    Children of Dune is 50% okay, 50% balls. God Emperor of Dune is 90% balls. The final two are 100% balls. Anything written by Brian Herbert is 110% balls.

    You only really need Dune and Dune Messiah.
  • grey_matters 23 Jun 2020 01:01:46 5,287 posts
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    Is there a better place than here?

    First ad for the Apple-funded Foundation series:
    Link

    Released at an Apple gig so in part is an ad for Apple. Looks really nice unless you are into faithful recreations. Decent cast. Fairly promising I reckon.
  • neilka 23 Jun 2020 01:12:18 23,415 posts
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    Thank you Tim Apple, very cool.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 23 Jun 2020 09:01:29 14,003 posts
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    Scientologist levels of Apple worship but the show looks good
  • disusedgenius 23 Jun 2020 09:15:03 10,546 posts
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    Weirdly it looks nothing like what my imagination gave me (except maybe for Trantor). I'm kinda counting that as a good thing - better to be different than dissonant.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 23 Jun 2020 12:40:49 14,003 posts
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    Dune loses me as everyone starts turning into worms and stuff themselves in the later books but that first book is an all time favourite
  • TechnoHippy 23 Jun 2020 13:30:20 17,520 posts
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    Foundation for me - there's some lovely ideas in there. Asimov (along with Arthur C Clarke) was a big factor in why I first got into science fiction.
  • oldskooldeano 23 Jun 2020 13:40:45 3,056 posts
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    A reason for my Apple TV subscription besides the beastie boys documentary?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xgbPSA94Rqg

    Foundation series 2021.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 23 Jun 2020 15:36:03 9,030 posts
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    Re-read Dune just before lockdown came in, back when I was still ploughing through books on my commute (really need to carve out some reading space in my lockdown routine). Agree the first book is still a classic, but parts of it have aged very strangely.
  • anephric 23 Jun 2020 16:05:07 4,207 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:Agree the first book is still a classic, but parts of it have aged very strangely.
    How so?
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 23 Jun 2020 16:10:31 9,030 posts
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    @anephric I think partly because following a couple of decades of war in the Middle East, the rise of ISIS etc, there's a different cultural context around the whole "jihad" thing now. Partly also because, even though I'm no Edwin, it's hard not to read it as a massively "colonial" book.
  • anephric 23 Jun 2020 16:38:13 4,207 posts
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    It plays on that, though. The jihad is absolutely not a good thing - there's a scene in Dune Messiah where Stilgar casually mentions how many millions have died as the Fremen continue on their intergalactic jihad.

    It's essentially Victoriana in space, so yes colonialism is an intrinsic feature. But Herbert dissects that with the way the Bene Gesserit have sown the seeds of exploitation in more 'basic' cultures with the Missionara Protectiva and planting messiah legends, and how Paul and Jessica manipulate the Fremen to their own ends by using this against the BG.

    All of this is deliberate on Herbert's part and very cynically so. It's not pro religion, colonialism or anything else. It's a treatise on the dangers of messianic belief.

    Do the Fremen really triumph? See what becomes of Paul. It's all a cautionary tale.

    This is what (however partial I am to it) Lynch got so wrong with his film: Paul plays the part of messiah to enact his vengeance and lets loose religious genocide upon the universe.

    Edited by anephric at 16:40:24 23-06-2020
  • anephric 23 Jun 2020 17:01:10 4,207 posts
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    One thing that has dated is having the only gay character be a big noncey villain, but it's from a time when that was easy cultural shorthand for establishing deviancy. Still not aged well though.
  • Gibroon 23 Jun 2020 17:25:34 2,310 posts
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    Love the Foundation series, glad it's getting a go on the telly.

    Be interesting to see how they adapt it but I would be surprised if they are too faithful to the books.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 23 Jun 2020 17:34:43 14,003 posts
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    I always thought that Paul was something of a Mohammed substitute and parts of the first book follow the events of the Prophets life but in space.

    Itís been awhile since Iíve read it though.

    I really like the movie. Sure it does things like framing a clear hero-villain dynamic and removes a lot of ambiguity but the visual style is so arcane and the decayed European aristocracy look is very strong.
  • Razz 23 Jun 2020 18:28:08 727 posts
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    Oh shit, it's finally happening. I never thought I'd see the day. Please. Don't. Be. Shite
  • Tonka 23 Jun 2020 18:38:33 30,901 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    Weirdly it looks nothing like what my imagination gave me
    This. I'm surprised at how wrong it looked. But I agree that it's perhaps a good thing.

    Still, I'm a tiny bit worried it'll fall into the same "serious art is grimdark" trap that The First Law trilogy fell into
  • grey_matters 23 Jun 2020 18:44:36 5,287 posts
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    It's not going to look, feel, or be anything like a complete recreation of the book(s). It's like an orange-flavoured drink rather than orange juice. If you're thirsty enough...

    Or for the studio point of view, if you don't kettle any better.

    Edited by grey_matters at 18:46:50 23-06-2020
  • Gibroon 23 Jun 2020 19:15:51 2,310 posts
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    Why no-one has done a Iain M. Banks movie is beyond me and annoying as feck.
  • TechnoHippy 23 Jun 2020 19:40:17 17,520 posts
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    Gibroon wrote:
    Why no-one has done a Iain M. Banks movie is beyond me and annoying as feck.
    I'd love a Culture TV series. Excession is one of my favourite reads.
  • MrWorf 23 Jun 2020 20:23:00 63,816 posts
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    I'd love a Nights Dawn Trilogy series but people are sick of zombie stuff
  • JoeBlade 23 Jun 2020 20:25:25 5,109 posts
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    MrWorf wrote:
    I'd love a Nights Dawn Trilogy series but people are sick of zombie stuff
    I'm not sure they'd be able to pull off all the gratuitous sex either. Hamilton sure has a dirty mind.
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