Demos and why they can be a bad idea. • Gaming • General Gaming • Eurogamer.net

absolutezero 23 Jan 2008 14:50:08 7,952 posts
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Imagine you've been interested in a game for awhile, following its previews and looking at trailers and images. Talking about it on forums with others looking forward to this new game.

Now imagine theres a demo released, you knowing about the game and what its about, get the demo and enjoy it.

You go onto said forum to talk about the demo. Only find something worded a little like this :

"I have never heard of this game before, yet I got the demo anyway. I thought it was shit. Its shit and not as good as CoD4, no matter the genre or style of the game."

That in itself is not so troublesome, what is though is when someone that may actually enjoy the demo and then game is put off by those ignorant to what the game is trying to do. Just because its different to the blockbuster de jour.

tl;dr meh.

absolutezero 23 Jan 2008 14:51:10 7,952 posts
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"Sorry but the thread your trying to view has been deleted"

Ill post it anyway and make you look like a retard double poster though.

AH HA HA

pjmaybe 23 Jan 2008 14:52:36 70,666 posts
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Bad idea for developers, I'll grant you.

Fucking brilliant idea for gamers. Take Turning Point: Fall of Liberty. Potentially interesting idea - an alt reality with Nazis invading new york. Some people might've been sucked in by that but the demo's so fucktastically awful that a lot of people will save their dosh...

absolutezero 23 Jan 2008 14:54:18 7,952 posts
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It just seems to happen for every new demo I can think of.

Apart from Bioshock.

marilena 23 Jan 2008 14:54:41 8,238 posts
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The initial rant suggests that forums are a bad idea, not demos. There may be some truth to this.

jellyhead 23 Jan 2008 14:57:21 24,355 posts
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Disliking a badly executed game is different to disliking the game style in my opinion. The main problem i see is that a bad demo may put people off the game so why release it? With many of the demos that are released and get slated the developer/publisher just says "Well, it's not the full game is it? It's only a demo. The full game is much better!". Release a demo based on the full game then! I always thought the idea of a demo was to get an impression or even a Demonstration of the final product not a half-arsed attempt to get something *similar* to what they hope to release.

If you release a bad demo don't whine about the criticism and effect it may have on sales of the full game.

Heartcore_Ninja 23 Jan 2008 14:57:42 1,727 posts
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It can work in the opposite way too and to our favour whereby we purchase a game based on the strength of the demo.

phAge 23 Jan 2008 14:58:24 25,487 posts
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absolutezero wrote:
That in itself is not so troublesome, what is though is when someone that may actually enjoy the demo and then game is put off by those ignorant to what the game is trying to do. Just because its different to the blockbuster de jour.

Heh - I always like it when people are defending shit games by saying that they're not shit - just "different!", and that people just dont "get them" because they're not "mainstream" enough.

Psychotext 23 Jan 2008 14:58:49 70,652 posts
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If you're stupid enough not to try a demo because of something someone on a forum said then you deserve everything you get.

pjmaybe 23 Jan 2008 15:00:23 70,666 posts
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It's not a universally reliable rule of thumb though. Take Burnout Paradise. I thought that people were raving about the demo quite spectacularly given that there wasn't really a lot there to play with (unless you really like ramming people up the arse online, you kinky beasts). Hopefully the full game might have a lot more on offer but it was enough to make me think twice about just dropping a preorder on it there and then.

Similarly, Chromehounds...

The demo wasn't great, not a lot there but the full game (despite the reviews) was superb, week after week of intense and involving action.

Forums ARE a good idea for gamers, again not such a great idea for developers because if a game stinks, word gets round pretty damned swiftly (and I'd trust the word of a handful of you here over the word of some planet-wanker or someone who nabbed a free review copy of something).

pistol 23 Jan 2008 15:01:29 13,018 posts
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pjmaybe wrote:
Bad idea for developers, I'll grant you.

Fucking brilliant idea for gamers. Take Turning Point: Fall of Liberty. Potentially interesting idea - an alt reality with Nazis invading new york. Some people might've been sucked in by that but the demo's so fucktastically awful that a lot of people will save their dosh...

Yep, deffo agree with this. I downloaded a couple of demos last night. Sega Rally being one example. I thought it was shit so will not be buying the full game. Nice colours but way too slidy.

Demo's will save me a fortune.

glaeken 23 Jan 2008 15:02:52 12,070 posts
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Psychotext wrote:
If you're stupid enough not to try a demo because of something someone on a forum said then you deserve everything you get.

Indeed. Every game ever made will have someone that hates it somewhere.

The crackdown demo sold the game completely to me yet the same demo was declared total crap by a lot.

jonsaan 23 Jan 2008 15:04:13 27,052 posts
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There's a whole (almost identical) thread about this over at 1up

A carefully put together demo could gaurantee a purchase. A rushed out piece of ass is just that.

phAge 23 Jan 2008 15:07:11 25,487 posts
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Also, the OPs argument against demos automatically fails, as it is built on the premise that Joe Random listens to people slagging the demo, but pays no attention to those who praise the final game (unless its shit, in which case the problem is with the game, not the demo).

warlockuk 23 Jan 2008 15:09:20 19,519 posts
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pjmaybe wrote:
Bad idea for developers, I'll grant you.

Fucking brilliant idea for gamers.

I like to think of it as "Shit games don't get bought".

If there'd been no demo of Burnout Paradise I might have bought it. Instead, I played the demo and thought it was shite. Which is what being a consumer is all about, really. You weigh it up with other games you've played to decide if you'll like it or if it's worth your coin.

If, in the player's opinion, a game weighs up infavourably - in their opinion - against COD4 / Shadowrun / Gears of War / Halo 3 / Whatever then they don't have to buy it. Similarly people may find they like it and want to buy. Swings 'n' roundabouts really

absolutezero 23 Jan 2008 15:10:16 7,952 posts
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Say if they released a demo for Mass Effect, with all the texture pop-up and bugs in full, you would have gotten the same old people trotting out the same old "This wasn't as good as I'd hoped, cancelled my pre-order 6/10" nonsense.

That does nothing but colour the popular opinion of more impressionable minority, who would have then missed out on a great game because of some slight niggles in a fucking demo.

absolutezero 23 Jan 2008 15:11:57 7,952 posts
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phAge wrote:
Also, the OPs argument against demos automatically fails, as it is built on the premise that Joe Random listens to people slagging the demo, but pays no attention to those who praise the final game (unless its shit, in which case the problem is with the game, not the demo).

Its more if you see alot of people complaining about a demo your more likely to just completely ignore everything about the final game. Exactly like what happened with Chromehounds.

phAge 23 Jan 2008 15:12:57 25,487 posts
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absolutezero wrote:
Say if they released a demo for Mass Effect, with all the texture pop-up and bugs in full, you would have gotten the same old people trotting out the same old "This wasn't as good as I'd hoped, cancelled my pre-order 6/10" nonsense.

That does nothing but colour the popular opinion of more impressionable minority, who would have then missed out on a great game because of some slight niggles in a fucking demo.

And then what happens when people rave about the finished game? Does your fictional buyer still maintain that the demo was shit and refuses to buy the game?

PhoenixFlames 23 Jan 2008 15:13:39 9,263 posts
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99% of all demos put me off the game. Perhaps I just don't like games anymore?

absolutezero 23 Jan 2008 15:14:55 7,952 posts
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phAge wrote:

absolutezero wrote:
Say if they released a demo for Mass Effect, with all the texture pop-up and bugs in full, you would have gotten the same old people trotting out the same old "This wasn't as good as I'd hoped, cancelled my pre-order 6/10" nonsense.

That does nothing but colour the popular opinion of more impressionable minority, who would have then missed out on a great game because of some slight niggles in a fucking demo.
And then what happens when people rave about the finished game? Does your fictional buyer still maintain that the demo was shit and refuses to buy the game?

No one in their right mind is going to continue to investigate and follow along with a game they played a single demo of and though was shit.

pjmaybe 23 Jan 2008 15:15:49 70,666 posts
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What really bakes my noodle is when a developer such as Alex Ward comes out and says "Stop bitching about the demo, it's from old code - the full version will be legendary"

So why release the demo then?

Why open yourself up to mass criticism if you can't keep your toys in the pram when some people who'd previously loved the Burnout series think what you've done to it is a bag of old arse?

phAge 23 Jan 2008 15:19:58 25,487 posts
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absolutezero wrote:

phAge wrote:

absolutezero wrote:
Say if they released a demo for Mass Effect, with all the texture pop-up and bugs in full, you would have gotten the same old people trotting out the same old "This wasn't as good as I'd hoped, cancelled my pre-order 6/10" nonsense.

That does nothing but colour the popular opinion of more impressionable minority, who would have then missed out on a great game because of some slight niggles in a fucking demo.
And then what happens when people rave about the finished game? Does your fictional buyer still maintain that the demo was shit and refuses to buy the game?

No one in their right mind is going to continue to investigate and follow along with a game they played a single demo of and though was shit.

So what you're saying is that if you're looking forward to a game enough to buy it without reading reviews (because we aren't discussing whether or not shit demos are a good idea here - we're discussing whether or not people should complain about shit demos), and you play a bad demo of it - you'll completely ignore any and all reviews and/or positive feedback on forums like EG?

M'kay, then.

absolutezero 23 Jan 2008 15:24:55 7,952 posts
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phAge wrote:

absolutezero wrote:

phAge wrote:

absolutezero wrote:
Say if they released a demo for Mass Effect, with all the texture pop-up and bugs in full, you would have gotten the same old people trotting out the same old "This wasn't as good as I'd hoped, cancelled my pre-order 6/10" nonsense.

That does nothing but colour the popular opinion of more impressionable minority, who would have then missed out on a great game because of some slight niggles in a fucking demo.
And then what happens when people rave about the finished game? Does your fictional buyer still maintain that the demo was shit and refuses to buy the game?

No one in their right mind is going to continue to investigate and follow along with a game they played a single demo of and though was shit.
So what you're saying is that if you're looking forward to a game enough to buy it without reading reviews (because we aren't discussing whether or not shit demos are a good idea here - we're discussing whether or not people should complain about shit demos), and you play a bad demo of it - you'll completely ignore any and all reviews and/or positive feedback on forums like EG?

M'kay, then.

No not at all, you pulled the shite demo thing out of your arse.

Despite the quality of any demo there will be people who have no idea what it is, they just d-load it because its a new demo on Live and why not?

They then take their demo-based opinion and spew it all over everywhere that they can. Like some bad-game messiah.

Now someone else sees that demo-based bile and vitriol and decides to stay well clear of said game, no matter if they might have actually liked it or not.

Kinda like what I saw happen with Armoured Core 4 aswell.

jellyhead 23 Jan 2008 15:26:20 24,355 posts
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Well that's a different matter totally. That's more to do with people just accepting the word of others and not trying things for themselves and making up their own minds.

Nothing new there. People are lazy.

phAge 23 Jan 2008 15:28:51 25,487 posts
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absolutezero wrote:
No not at all, you pulled the shite demo thing out of your arse.

Despite the quality of any demo there will be people who have no idea what it is, they just d-load it because its a new demo on Live and why not?

They then take their demo-based opinion and spew it all over everywhere that they can. Like some bad-game messiah.

Now someone else sees that demo-based bile and vitriol and decides to stay well clear of said game, no matter if they might have actually liked it or not.

Kinda like what I saw happen with Armoured Core 4 aswell.

And this is different from people buying the actual GAME, and spewing their "game-based bile and vitriol" all over the net HOW?

(Answer: it isn't. If you look forward to a game, read that people don't like the DEMO, and thus decide not to try it at all for yourself, then the mainstream retard is most definitely you. Not calling you a retard, btw - that was a general "you").

EDIT: Ah - *now* I understand. You are talking about someone who enjoys a demo of a game, yet still doesn't buy it, because other people dislike it. Wow - how much more of a lemming could you be? O_o

PhoenixFlames 23 Jan 2008 15:30:24 9,263 posts
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What if people don't have t'internet at home and can't DL the demo?

People's opinion of it might sway them not to buy.

absolutezero 23 Jan 2008 15:33:10 7,952 posts
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phAge wrote:

absolutezero wrote:
No not at all, you pulled the shite demo thing out of your arse.

Despite the quality of any demo there will be people who have no idea what it is, they just d-load it because its a new demo on Live and why not?

They then take their demo-based opinion and spew it all over everywhere that they can. Like some bad-game messiah.

Now someone else sees that demo-based bile and vitriol and decides to stay well clear of said game, no matter if they might have actually liked it or not.

Kinda like what I saw happen with Armoured Core 4 aswell.
And this is different from people buying the actual GAME, and spewing their "game-based bile and vitriol" all over the net HOW?

(Answer: it isn't. If you look forward to a game, read that people don't like the DEMO, and thus decide not to try it at all for yourself, then the mainstream retard is most definitely you. Not calling you a retard, btw - that was a general "you").

EDIT: Ah - *now* I understand. You are talking about someone who enjoys a demo of a game, yet still doesn't buy it, because other people dislike it. Wow - how much more of a lemming could you be? O_o

If you plonked down the money to actually buy the game you may be more accpetable to small defects and niggles, after you all you paid for it and thus might aswell enjoy it right? i.e. Mass Effect again.

An opinion garnered from playing the full game is always going to hold more weight than one from playing a demo for 5 minutes.

phAge 23 Jan 2008 15:39:44 25,487 posts
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absolutezero wrote:
An opinion garnered from playing the full game is always going to hold more weight than one from playing a demo for 5 minutes.

So why does your hypothetical buyer not realize this, and not give a shit what everyone else thinks - ESPECIALLY since he actually liked the demo himself?

absolutezero 23 Jan 2008 15:43:30 7,952 posts
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phAge wrote:

absolutezero wrote:
An opinion garnered from playing the full game is always going to hold more weight than one from playing a demo for 5 minutes.
So why does your hypothetical buyer not realize this, and not give a shit what everyone else thinks - ESPECIALLY since he actually liked the demo himself?

No idea, I guess thats the true purpose of the thread.

Hypothetical buyer never played the demo, he might have but was put off my a "demo opinions" thread on a forum. Filled with Poster A, (the one that just played the demo because it was free and has no interest in the game).

Now if Poster A gets on a train at Kings Cross and travels for 50 minutes at 130mph how far has he gone?

phAge 23 Jan 2008 15:44:46 25,487 posts
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absolutezero wrote:

phAge wrote:

absolutezero wrote:
An opinion garnered from playing the full game is always going to hold more weight than one from playing a demo for 5 minutes.
So why does your hypothetical buyer not realize this, and not give a shit what everyone else thinks - ESPECIALLY since he actually liked the demo himself?

No idea, I guess thats the true purpose of the thread.

Hypothetical buyer never played the demo, he might have but was put off my a "demo opinions" thread on a forum. Filled with Poster A, (the one that just played the demo because it was free and has no interest in the game).

Now if Poster A gets on a train at Kings Cross and travels for 50 minutes at 130mph how far has he gone?

I think the answer to your original question is that Hypothetical Buyer is a mong.