Boxing Page 184

  • Evasion 3 Dec 2018 00:19:39 31 posts
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    Post deleted
  • Evasion 3 Dec 2018 01:21:57 31 posts
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    Wilder has to be one of the hardest punching heavyweights in history. Fury is probably the most skilful one right now. No clue how Joshua does against them, to be honest.
  • senso-ji 3 Dec 2018 10:17:30 8,952 posts
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    Yeah, AJ would have his work cut out if he fought either fighter that turned up on saturday. It was a great fight. No idea how Fury got up in the 12th, he was definitely out cold for a few seconds after watching replays.
  • the_milkybar_kid 3 Dec 2018 10:41:52 7,741 posts
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    Another 6-8 months for Fury to get his fitness up, I reckon he could have Joshua on points. He's definitely pissy about Joshua being the household name in the UK so anything he can throw at him won't be enough if he can get up from that KO. Must have been like a fucking freight train.

    Edited by the_milkybar_kid at 10:43:38 03-12-2018
  • The-Bodybuilder 3 Dec 2018 10:57:28 17,409 posts
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    elstoof wrote:
    Haye in his prime was possibly the most talented cruiser/heavy in recent years, but we all how he flopped against the bigger guys
    A very good example.
    We saw how the Klitch's cleaned up the division for a decade with a simple but effective jab and clinch strategy. Didn't matter how good you were, they kept you at bay then clinched if you tried to come in.

    I think we can have a bit of a rose-tinted spec about these things. The current crops are absolute monsters, regardless of their technical quality (bar Fury).
  • The-Bodybuilder 3 Dec 2018 11:01:01 17,409 posts
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    fontgeeksogood wrote:
    It's the same with combat sports, before we get all high and mighty. Even at amateur level, you meet some "farm strong" competitors
    I think the greater the role of technical proficiency at a sport, the less likely PEDs are to be a factor in overall success. The greater the role athleticism plays, the likelier the role of PEDs. And if the sport is pretty much athletic qualities (say, powerlifting or.....cycling?), the PEDs will be rampant.

    In fact a study about it came out last week and was discussed at a conferene I attended.

    Edited by The-Bodybuilder at 11:02:00 03-12-2018
  • The-Bodybuilder 3 Dec 2018 11:04:15 17,409 posts
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    jimnastics wrote:
    Mike Costello: "This has been a great night for the sport, for heavyweight boxing, and heavyweight boxing in the US""

    I fucking despise the US boxing business with a passion.
    He's right though. US HW Boxing needed this. There hasn't been a decent high profile HW boxing in the US for decades, so to then have an instantly memorable potential fight of the year HW fight does so much for it.
  • The-Bodybuilder 3 Dec 2018 11:06:25 17,409 posts
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    Evasion wrote:
    Wilder has to be one of the hardest punching heavyweights in history. Fury is probably the most skilful one right now. No clue how Joshua does against them, to be honest.
    I'm fairly confident Fury dispatches AJ, either on points or even KO. Not only is he technically better, AJ doesn't have the KO power of Wilder (but does have KO power), doesn't have the cardio of Wilder, and arguably doesn't have the chin of Wilder.

    AJ v Wilder is definitely the more intriguing match up.
  • atothewest 3 Dec 2018 11:12:45 917 posts
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    Not sure Wilder's chin has really been tested that much, AJ's definitely had sterner examination in that regard. Agree about his cardio though, that's looked like AJ's biggest weakness to me, at some point in all of his longer fights he's gone through periods where he's looked gassed - against Wilder that could easily mean lights out. Can't see Joshua doing what Fury did in the 12th, that was a superhuman effort.

    Also agree that Fury beats AJ for me as things stand currently. Hopefully got some great fights between these three coming up in the next few years. Really hope they all embrace it and we get all the fights (and rematches) made.
  • The-Bodybuilder 3 Dec 2018 11:30:42 17,409 posts
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    atothewest wrote:
    Not sure Wilder's chin has really been tested that much, AJ's definitely had sterner examination in that regard. Agree about his cardio though, that's looked like AJ's biggest weakness to me, at some point in all of his longer fights he's gone through periods where he's looked gassed - against Wilder that could easily mean lights out. Can't see Joshua doing what Fury did in the 12th, that was a superhuman effort.

    Also agree that Fury beats AJ for me as things stand currently. Hopefully got some great fights between these three coming up in the next few years. Really hope they all embrace it and we get all the fights (and rematches) made.
    I think Wilder proved it for me when he took Ortiz, at one point arguably the hardest hitting HW in the game, and somehow survived and didn't even get dropped (though close, and held on for life).
    In fairness, he also took shots yesterday whilst being absolutely exhausted. In fact I'm surprised Fury (though not a power hitter, still has some KOs) didn't get Wilder to the floor when he had him wobbled a few times. But we've seen AJ get wobbled by Whyte, Povetkin and ofcourse floored by Klitch.

    But yeah, cardio is a big factor. In fact it's scary how much KO power Wilder holds even whilst being utterly exhausted.


    But yeah, through Usyk into the mix, and this is a really exciting time for the HW scene.
  • Dougs 3 Dec 2018 11:33:27 87,358 posts
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    Just a shame all the fights are on wanky box office channels.
  • Graxlar_v3 3 Dec 2018 11:38:52 4,572 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    jimnastics wrote:
    Mike Costello: "This has been a great night for the sport, for heavyweight boxing, and heavyweight boxing in the US""

    I fucking despise the US boxing business with a passion.
    He's right though. US HW Boxing needed this. There hasn't been a decent high profile HW boxing in the US for decades, so to then have an instantly memorable potential fight of the year HW fight does so much for it.
    I wonder if that would have been his response had Wilder lost?

    No way i was staying up/paying for this so...

    was a draw a fair result? everything i have read has said Fury should have won but then i dont know if it is English bias. Its rare for someone to get knocked to the floor twice and still expect to win right?
  • atothewest 3 Dec 2018 11:44:24 917 posts
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    The eyebrow-raiser was the judge that scored rounds 2-5 in Wilder's favour, when both the other judges gave them to Fury.
  • macmurphy 3 Dec 2018 13:15:33 3,586 posts
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    @Graxlar_v3

    Thatís not how boxing works mate. Itís based on points, a knockdown just means you get two points for a round whereas just outscoring your opponent gets you one.

    Itís done 10/10 for drawn round, 10/9 if you win round, 10/8 for knockdown, or even 10/7 for double knockdown.

    Basically you could be knocked down three times and still win 114/111 if you won all the other rounds.

    As it stands Fury was knocked down twice. You can give Wilder two other rounds (which is optimistic but I gave him second) and Fury still wins. For him to draw you have to give Wilder three extra rounds and thereís very few people that did that, hence the controversy.

    The bloke that had Wilder winning gave him first four rounds. Thatís just bullshit.

    Edited for not quick maths.

    Edited by macmurphy at 13:21:15 03-12-2018
  • Graxlar_v3 3 Dec 2018 13:20:22 4,572 posts
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    @macmurphy I know how boxing works thanks, but the 2 knockdowns usually make it less likely for someone to win based on the additional 2 points you get from the knockdown (as well as usually after a knockdown an opponent is slightly dazed going forward).
  • macmurphy 3 Dec 2018 13:24:38 3,586 posts
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    @Graxlar_v3

    Yeah it makes it less likely of course, it would be really rare for someone to get knocked down twice, not knock their opponent down and win. Once someoneís knocked down of course theyíre less likely to win as they may well still be shaky in the next round.

    But according to the scoring thatís what should have happened. Fury didnít look great for two rounds but he made Wilder look poor for the other 9/10. Thatís the way boxingís scored and he should have won.

    Edited by macmurphy at 13:25:07 03-12-2018
  • Graxlar_v3 3 Dec 2018 13:27:38 4,572 posts
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    @macmurphy and that was my question.

    As I hadnít seen it, I was wondering how much fury should have won was national bias. That is all.

    If you tell me he should have won then thatís enough.
  • Dougs 3 Dec 2018 13:32:19 87,358 posts
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    What are the US papers etc saying about it?
  • macmurphy 3 Dec 2018 13:33:41 3,586 posts
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    @Graxlar_v3

    Ah fair one, I thought you were just saying in general people canít get knocked down twice and expect to win.

    Iím not an expert but most of the boxing world seemed to agree. As I said, you could give Wilder one or two rounds but not three. Plenty of boxing pundits and even Wilder fans in agreement.

    Thereís a picture just after their draw was announced and Fury looks gutted and Wilder looks really happy. Says it all to me, Iíve seen a few fights and Iím pretty sure Wilder thought heís lost.
  • atothewest 3 Dec 2018 13:40:05 917 posts
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    macmurphy wrote:
    @Graxlar_v3

    The bloke that had Wilder winning gave him first four rounds. Thatís just bullshit.
    FWIW all the judges gave Wilder the first round, it was rounds 2-4 where the one judge went against the grain.

    Edited for truth :redface:

    Edited by atothewest at 13:41:31 03-12-2018
  • DJCopa 3 Dec 2018 13:40:31 1,698 posts
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    The best analogy I read, for someone like me:

    Team winning 5-0 and then concede an overhead kick, top corner in last minute, and the ref gives the result to that team.
  • Graxlar_v3 3 Dec 2018 13:40:59 4,572 posts
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    well ...

    NYTimes showing they have no knowledge of boxing

    https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/12/02/sports/02reuters-boxing-heavyweight-wilder-fury.html

    The scorecards showed that Wilder benefited greatly from his two knockdowns in the ninth and the 12th, which all three judges scored 10-8 in favor of the champion. In all the other rounds the fighters were separated by a single point.
    http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/25429168/deontay-wilder-tyson-fury-fight-draw-heavyweight-title-bout

    ESPN seems to lean more for Wilder.

    They also used the words clown or clowning to describe Fury.

    Edited by Graxlar_v3 at 13:42:15 03-12-2018
  • whatfruitlivesagain 3 Dec 2018 14:12:25 1,435 posts
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    macmurphy wrote:
    @Graxlar_v3

    Ah fair one, I thought you were just saying in general people canít get knocked down twice and expect to win.

    Iím not an expert but most of the boxing world seemed to agree. As I said, you could give Wilder one or two rounds but not three. Plenty of boxing pundits and even Wilder fans in agreement.

    Thereís a picture just after their draw was announced and Fury looks gutted and Wilder looks really happy. Says it all to me, Iíve seen a few fights and Iím pretty sure Wilder thought heís lost.
    After the bell Wilder had the look of a man who knew he was beat. The annoying thing is I think fury could have avoided the earlier knockdown if he had spent less time prancing around like a dick head and more on throwing punches. Everytime Fury went on the offensive Wilder backed up making him incapable of launching an effective attack.
  • askew 3 Dec 2018 14:48:29 17,992 posts
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    I never realised that's how pro boxing was scored. Always thought it was on punches landedÖ :redface:
  • The-Bodybuilder 3 Dec 2018 16:25:35 17,409 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    jimnastics wrote:
    Mike Costello: "This has been a great night for the sport, for heavyweight boxing, and heavyweight boxing in the US""

    I fucking despise the US boxing business with a passion.
    He's right though. US HW Boxing needed this. There hasn't been a decent high profile HW boxing in the US for decades, so to then have an instantly memorable potential fight of the year HW fight does so much for it.
    I wonder if that would have been his response had Wilder lost?

    No way i was staying up/paying for this so...

    was a draw a fair result? everything i have read has said Fury should have won but then i dont know if it is English bias. Its rare for someone to get knocked to the floor twice and still expect to win right?
    Fury should've win. Mike Tyson even ranted about it.
  • XtraCheese 3 Dec 2018 18:57:28 116 posts
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    Of course fury fucking won

    Heís the best heavyweight on the planet. Whereís all the fury hate on this forum now ? Everyone can see heís the real deal after that performance.
  • ruthlessrupertritali 3 Dec 2018 19:13:34 8 posts
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    CANT WAIT TO HEAR WHAT BIG JOHN FURY HAS TO SAY

    with a interview on IFL TV

    IM STILL BUZZING FROM THIS FIGHT
  • AddyJB 3 Dec 2018 19:14:26 526 posts
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    When socks collide.
  • SolidSCB 3 Dec 2018 19:25:14 10,415 posts
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    Must be an open Wi-fi network on whatever industrial estate they've gatecrashed this month.
  • GoatApocalypse 4 Dec 2018 09:30:46 4,920 posts
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    Anyone done any white collar boxing? Tempted to give it a go...
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