Boxing Page 192

  • senso-ji 16 Jun 2019 11:44:26 9,708 posts
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    It was a good performance from Fury, but the opposition was hardly stellar. Both AJ and Wilder's last opponents were leagues above Schwarz. Hopefully they'll be better fights down the line where his skills can really be showcased. Would love that AJ fight at Wembley.
  • richarddavies 16 Jun 2019 11:49:20 6,778 posts
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    Regardless of what I think of Fury on a personal level, he looked great in that fight. When he dodged about 4 head shots in a row weaving was top notch.
  • the_milkybar_kid 16 Jun 2019 12:26:53 8,018 posts
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    Just watched it, Fury was in complete control and probably would have been if it had gone on for 6 or more. His best performance since coming back and I only think he'll get better.
  • The-Bodybuilder 16 Jun 2019 16:40:46 17,807 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    It fascinates me how liked Fury is now. Itís an amazing demonstration of the degree to which the media can dictate a narrative, even to the point where they can switch a villain to a hero without batting an eyelid.
    Always been like this, I guess.
    I mean, up until many years after, it's forgotten just how much Ali was hated during his time.

    Even Tyson, a convicted rapist is now a national treasure (not gonna lie, I openly admit to being a massive fan of him as well, and he's obviously changed his life and suffered his own pains).
  • You-can-call-me-kal 16 Jun 2019 16:43:04 16,424 posts
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    Absolutely yeah, although my suspicion is that the narratives were more organic in the old days, and because of their success itís now more strategically considered.
  • The-Bodybuilder 16 Jun 2019 16:45:53 17,807 posts
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    That was a sparring fight for Fury, but he's undeniably the best boxer around.
    I also think there's a general underestimation of him tbh. Outside of power, Boxing is one of the few sports where you can say many past fighters are better than modern ones, but Fury in all honesty, with more power, has the argument to beating anyone. The guy is an absolute freak of nature; a Middleweight level of movements, switching stances, reaction, in one of the biggest boxing frames ever.

    I don't have much issues with his personalities, as not only because of his background, he's had a bit of a Groves personality transition. It's BJS that's the proper prick.
  • The-Bodybuilder 16 Jun 2019 16:51:09 17,807 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Absolutely yeah, although my suspicion is that the narratives were more organic in the old days, and because of their success itís now more strategically considered.
    Possibly. Probably.
    I mean, it's very clear there's a marketing strategy with Fury. Never have I heard his lineal champion tag been so heavily referenced as until he signed this ESPN deal.

    Ultimately, I think the saving grace we can always point to with all 3 (Ali, Tyson & Fury) is that all three had huge levels of Charisma (it's generally overlooked how much Tyson had, being this mild-mannered monster kid who also had an eloquence with words not expected from someone of his background).

    And I guess we all also like a redemption story; Ali's initial stance against the war had him hated and casted out, but then it became his redemption story (the love for him only really began on his comeback from exile). There was always the element of Tyson and his background, and now, seeing as mental health is one of the main talking points in society, some have seen Tyson as the face of that, mixed in with his redemption story from it.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 16 Jun 2019 16:57:48 16,424 posts
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    Itís hard to ignore the blatant racism in boxing narratives. ďVillainsĒ are pretty much exclusively ethnic minorities. I canít actually think of a single one who isnít.
  • Graxlar_v3 17 Jun 2019 06:41:57 7,311 posts
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    Although not a villain per se, the Klitschko brothers were pretty much reviled for ruining a generation of heavy weight boxing.
  • waggy79 17 Jun 2019 07:02:26 1,996 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Itís hard to ignore the blatant racism in boxing narratives. ďVillainsĒ are pretty much exclusively ethnic minorities. I canít actually think of a single one who isnít.
    Were they villains due to skin colour or personality?
  • You-can-call-me-kal 17 Jun 2019 07:39:19 16,424 posts
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    Was my use of the phrase Ďblatant racismí not clear enough?
  • waggy79 17 Jun 2019 07:44:25 1,996 posts
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    Sure. Just dont remember anyone being specifically targeted due to it.
  • craigy Staff 17 Jun 2019 08:36:06 9,451 posts
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    I think it's fine to give credit to Fury for turning a corner personality wise. He's never going to be let off the hook by a lot of people in the UK purely because of where he comes from, but I'm happy that he seems to have found his feet, is existing with a positive mindset, and is being successful in the ring. So many boxers struggle with mental health, so I am more than happy to give him a break as he matures.

    He was never going to struggle against Schwarz, but you can't begrudge him a tune-up fight before going for the rematch against Wilder.
  • Frogofdoom 17 Jun 2019 09:24:23 13,684 posts
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    Its nothing to do with where he came from, it's to do with comparing homosexuality with paedophilia and other such gems.
  • senso-ji 17 Jun 2019 09:32:44 9,708 posts
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    Yeah, people forget Fury burned some bridges when he spouted homophobic, anti-semitic and chauvinistic rhetoric. He's reeled that in the past few years, but some people are still angry with him.
  • elstoof 17 Jun 2019 10:34:49 23,687 posts
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    He was probably off his nut to be fair
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 17 Jun 2019 10:37:53 20,400 posts
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    He was high on Jesus.
  • elstoof 17 Jun 2019 10:39:38 23,687 posts
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    Double drop some Jesus before wading into twitter
  • Youthist 17 Jun 2019 11:08:48 13,847 posts
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    He appears to have gotten a whole lot more popular in Britain when he beat some brown people and some of them their foreigners.
  • The-Bodybuilder 17 Jun 2019 13:51:06 17,807 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    Although not a villain per se, the Klitschko brothers were pretty much reviled for ruining a generation of heavy weight boxing.
    They certainly weren't made to be indifferent, maybe villains to the boxing hardcore, but the wider market just didn't appeal.

    Once again, like Kalel said about the racial subtext, it's easily forgotten how much of a villain Ali was made out to be back in the day, largely due to his civil rights and anti-nam war stance.

    Edited by The-Bodybuilder at 13:51:18 17-06-2019
  • The-Bodybuilder 17 Jun 2019 13:53:05 17,807 posts
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    waggy79 wrote:
    Sure. Just dont remember anyone being specifically targeted due to it.
    It's a general thing, not a specific one,
    Even Lennox, for the longest of time was kinda treated with disdain as "not a true Brit" by the media.

    In fact to go back to kalel's question, the only one that's ever been painted as a hero is in fact, AJ. That I can think of.
  • kentmonkey 17 Jun 2019 13:57:18 23,073 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    waggy79 wrote:
    Sure. Just dont remember anyone being specifically targeted due to it.
    It's a general thing, not a specific one,
    Even Lennox, for the longest of time was kinda treated with disdain as "not a true Brit" by the media.

    In fact to go back to kalel's question, the only one that's ever been painted as a hero is in fact, AJ. That I can think of.
    Bruno? At least until the mental health issues started to show and, as usual, he was portrayed to be a wife beating lunatic without any understanding around his condition.
  • The-Bodybuilder 17 Jun 2019 14:01:09 17,807 posts
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    kentmonkey wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    waggy79 wrote:
    Sure. Just dont remember anyone being specifically targeted due to it.
    It's a general thing, not a specific one,
    Even Lennox, for the longest of time was kinda treated with disdain as "not a true Brit" by the media.

    In fact to go back to kalel's question, the only one that's ever been painted as a hero is in fact, AJ. That I can think of.
    Bruno? At least until the mental health issues started to show and, as usual, he was portrayed to be a wife beating lunatic without any understanding around his condition.
    Yeah I was gonna say Bruno too, until that.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 17 Jun 2019 14:08:22 20,400 posts
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    Nigel Benn
    Bruno
    Even Nas was before he started knocking people over.

    And Lewis was seen as not a true brit because he was Canadian, he was definitely seen as a hero though.

    I just don't see it myself, the villain/hero narratives that go on in boxing are very much down to personalities imo, ethnicity never seems to come into it from what I can see.

    Also there's not many boxers I can think of that play the "villain" role anyways, certainly not in British boxing. Eubank? Cant really think of many more.
  • craigy Staff 17 Jun 2019 14:47:44 9,451 posts
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    Came to post that exact same list. Everyone was absolutely mad about Bruno and Prince Naseem. Even Eubank(s) had an oddball personality but generally people rooted for him.
  • Load_2.0 17 Jun 2019 14:48:52 29,646 posts
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    I dont think there are villains or heroes in boxing.

    The percentage who run into trouble with the law is incredibly disproportionate in comparison to other sports.

    Tyson, Mayweather, Valero, Corrales, Liston, Monzoon, Bowe, Butler, Monsoon.

    All huge names in boxing and all convicted of a variety of serious crimes but still considered heroes and legends to the majority of people with an interest in boxing.

    I think when you look at the disadvantaged and difficult backgrounds a lot of these guys come from you could say that is a factor in them ending up in trouble. Especially if you factor in the history instant wealth, poor management and resulting bankruptcies.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 17 Jun 2019 17:12:27 16,424 posts
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    Hmm. Some poor memories imho but whatever.

    My point incidentally was that the Ďvillainsí were invariably minorities, not that no minorities were heroes.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 17 Jun 2019 17:20:46 20,400 posts
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    What villains do you mean though? I'm genuinely interested as I can't really think of any.
  • nickthegun 17 Jun 2019 17:22:05 78,322 posts
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    I think it's probably more pronounced now with Boxings gradual descent into sports entertainment, with boxers cutting promos, having narratives edited into TV spots and lobbing chairs at each other at weigh-ins.

    People love to have someone to BOO HISS at.
  • Load_2.0 17 Jun 2019 17:27:56 29,646 posts
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    I dont really see any of them in that light.

    The bar is pretty low for boxing.

    Not being a wife beater or convicted criminal is pretty much the criteria for being the "good guy"

    Edited by Load_2.0 at 17:28:25 17-06-2019
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