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@RyanDS FF14 has no level scaling at all. Enemies are just the level they are. |
Recently-abandoned games • Page 241
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RyanDS 14,074 posts
Seen 1 day ago
Registered 13 years agoBut it is not open world. It has very specific zones by level.
https://imgur.com/a/9TW48
If Skyrim did that you could only play a small bit of the map at a time which would make it lose the free form exploration. -
wobbly_Bob 5,162 posts
Seen 7 months ago
Registered 15 years agoI would prefer no level scaling. I don't think it would restrict freedom. If the game was designed well it shouldn't be an issue. Have the area where you start with easier enemies and then sign post to players this area or dungeon has dangerous foes and if you want to enter you can do so at your own risk for greater rewards. I know it's not a true open world but Dark Souls did this sort of thing with great success. Plus, it's a great feeling wandering into an area you are not supposed to and getting destroyed then going back later and kicking ass when you are an all powerful hero.
Enemies scaling just makes everything seem pointless. It's exactly like rubber banding in racing games. Supposedly it keeps you engaged as a player so it's not too hard or too difficult but it just makes racing feel pointless as you know if you are terrible the cars will slow or if you race well they cheat and match you. The same is true with RPGs. I never feel like I have earned my place.
I think it's lazy game design. Making a world with areas that have different levels of challeng takes a lot more effort to make that work and to do it well.
Edited by wobbly_Bob at 18:30:28 13-02-2019 -
In Dark Souls there are areas which would be suicide for a new player to enter but if you are experienced and well geared you can overcome some of these challenges early which in turn unlocks better equipment allowing you to take on more advanced areas earlier. It rewards good play.
In Skyrim as I get better every bandit receives training from a master sword master or master wizards. The game just moves up a tier to the next random encounter table generator -
I don't think level scaling is just lazy game design, nor do I think it makes levelling pointless. That would be true if levelling up only meant more hit points and damage, but that's usually not the case, certainly not in Skyrim. As you level up, you increasingly specialise in certain skills, enemies get tougher but you have the edge if you're a badass stealth archer, for example. The goal is to master a certain skill set, not to simply be stronger overall.
Level scaling has pros and cons and I believe it's not easy to get it right. There are players who say a game must have level scaling and there are players who say it must not. I believe it's difficult for devs to juggle with vastly different expectations and preferences among players, especially in RPGs. You may force your idea of how to play the game on the player, or you may try to give the player freedom. There are again pros and cons to either, and I'm not trying to say one approach is objectively better than the other. Skyrim is decidedly in the latter camp, Elder Scrolls games' main characteristic is offering as much freedom as possible, and I give them credit for making it possible without the whole thing falling apart.
Back to level scaling, I think Borderlands 2 is interesting here because it has both. In normal and true vault hunter mode (new game+) it doesn't have level scaling, but in ultimate vault hunter mode (new game++) it does.
So for example, I like that if I find a main quest too hard, I can do side quests to level up, become stronger and prepare for the main quest. The downside is that if you're completionist and want to do all side missions, the main quest may become too easy. Another player wants to only do the main quests and do the side quests after finishing the story, but they'll be level 28 or whatever when they're returning to locations with level 3 enemies where they can rush through in game genie mode just punching everyone in the face. That may be fun for a few minutes, but gets old quickly. Worse, all loot and quest rewards are completely worthless. The completionist faces a similar problem, with maps and enemies not holding up to their level, almost all loot becomes worthless. And if it wasn't, if the loot was more powerful, that'd just make it easier than it already is.
The introduction of DLC campaigns amplified the issue. You can do them before finishing the main story but that will be far too easy then. You can do them after the main story, but then the DLCs may be too easy. If they're scaled so as to be a challenge after the main story, TVHM (new game+) will be started completely overpowered.
UVHM (new game++)'s level scaling takes away some of the possibilities and adds issues of its own, but at the same time it eliminates the issue of overpowered players and underpowered loot. For many players, it's only here that it starts to really work, because you're always looking out for loot, can farm bosses whenever you want because those delicious legendaries will all be up to date, etc. For other players, it's just a turn off.
What I'm trying to say is there's no black and white "level scaling is great/shit", it's a pretty complex issue and I think it's unfair to devs to accuse them of lazy game design. I believe it's something that's very difficult to get right. -
As for crafting or not, again some players think it's shit while others really want it. Or it can be both with the same player. I really want my smithing and enchanting in Skyrim (although it gets overpowered at high levels), but thank God there's no crafting in Borderlands because it would destroy its RNG loot/farm mechanics. Again, there's no clear right or wrong here. -
evild_edd 4,334 posts
Seen 21 hours ago
Registered 14 years ago@DrStrangelove
I understand and agree with pretty much everything you've written.
I still think scaling (and TES series as a whole) is turd. ;0)
This is just each to their own territory. Personally I value tight gameplay, quality narrative, and a test of skill. Other people like the (artificial) sense of freedom that large sandboxes offer, and grinding for grind's sake.
Thank goodness there are so many titles for all our different tastes, hey. -
Crysis 1
First half of the game was pretty good. Graphics are still impressive and the abilities are fun. Game turns crap when the aliens turn up.
Edited by TheHammerite at 11:28:49 16-02-2019 -
Malek86 12,331 posts
Seen 6 minutes ago
Registered 14 years agoShadow of the Tomb Raider
I'm glad I was able to try it cheap with Game Pass without actually buying, because this is dire. The writing in the first couple hours has been utterly atrocious - I thought nothing could be worse than ROTR, but somehow they managed to top themselves. Considering it's the reboot series finale, I guess it's fitting, but still. I'm amazed anyone greenlit this.
I stopped after a couple hours. Got to the bit where you must explore the garden as young Lara. I was playing on hard mode, and it shows yet another issue with modern games - because you can now simply highlight the important bits, good level design that signposts important objects is completely gone. Remove the highlighting, and you'll be going around in circles, looking for that one important item you are missing.
Anyway, ROTR was at least fun to play, looked great and ran well enough. But this one manages to fail even on that part. Ridiculous events (how many arrows to the face can a jaguar take before dying?), supremely muddy visuals that make it even harder to find the already near-invisible important bits, and framerate that tanks whenever there's a tree on screen (read: always). The only improvement seems to be input lag, which is not as high as the last game despite the lower framerate. Still think they should have fixed that in ROTR.
Maybe this would be better on PS4, but there's no fixing the plot. Dropped like a mic.
Edited by Malek86 at 12:24:22 16-02-2019 -
DjFlex52 338 posts
Seen 5 months ago
Registered 15 years agoMalek86 wrote:
This. except the opposite critique. Bought it, enjoyed the story & tombs, gorgeous visuals, no problem with jaguars, steady framerate.
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
I'm glad I was able to try it cheap with Game Pass without actually buying, because this is dire. The writing in the first couple hours has been utterly atrocious - I thought nothing could be worse than ROTR, but somehow they managed to top themselves. Considering it's the reboot series finale, I guess it's fitting, but still. I'm amazed anyone greenlit this.
I stopped after a couple hours. Got to the bit where you must explore the garden as young Lara. I was playing on hard mode, and it shows yet another issue with modern games - because you can now simply highlight the important bits, good level design that signposts important objects is completely gone. Remove the highlighting, and you'll be going around in circles, looking for that one important item you are missing.
Anyway, ROTR was at least fun to play, looked great and ran well enough. But this one manages to fail even on that part. Ridiculous events (how many arrows to the face can a jaguar take before dying?), supremely muddy visuals that make it even harder to find the already near-invisible important bits, and framerate that tanks whenever there's a tree on screen (read: always). The only improvement seems to be input lag, which is not as high as the last game despite the lower framerate. Still think they should have fixed that in ROTR.
Maybe this would be better on PS4, but there's no fixing the plot. Dropped like a mic. -
Bichii 4,672 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 4 years agoTheHammerite wrote:
Like dusk till dawn with the vampire's and half life 1 with the alien world?
Crysis 1
First half of the game was pretty good. Graphics are still impressive and the abilities are fun. Game turns crap when the aliens turn up. -
@Bichii
The aliens are tedious to fight. And the alien environment a little dull. First half of the game is gorgeous. The enemy ai is pretty poor but it's fun for the most part.
HL1 alien world was better. -
Cadence 2,585 posts
Seen 2 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoCrackdown 3. I know a few others on here have said they've really enjoyed it but for me it just hasn't clicked at all. After a few hours it really does become monotonous and feels like a game from a decade ago. Shame as I was really looking forward to it. The multiplayer is absolutely dire too. -
Goralami 1 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 6 years agoApex Legends. I can appreciate the advances it makes on other Battle Royale games, but unfortunately, it's not you Apex, it's me.
I'm not really a team multilayer person by nature, and even with the great ping system I couldn't quite get comfortable with being a crucial third of the team effort. Also, God am I bad at the game. Apex implements really nice features for terrible players (knockdown shields, re-spawns, high TTK) but I still find investing 5-10 minutes into an uneventful game only to be taken out in a 30 second engagement frustrating.
The game even has characters with abilities dedicated to retreating from combat/anticipating enemy attacks, yet I still felt frustrated. The ping system feels designed to compliment voice chat rather than replace it, and my woeful blundering through random sessions was a real up-and-down experience.
All that being said, I managed to get carried to a win, and took out a few people along the way. I'm happy to take my leave with reasonably solid impressions of the game, as opposed to sinking hours trying to get gud. -
PazJohnMitch 17,276 posts
Seen 22 hours ago
Registered 14 years agoI tried Apex Legends yesterday. Seemed ok but definitely not a game for me. -
5-7 years ago I'd be all over a game like Apex Legends. Unfortunately team MP or even SP online does nothing for me these days. Just give me high scores to beat or a single player story experience. -
Malek86 12,331 posts
Seen 6 minutes ago
Registered 14 years agoI'm okay with multiplayer nowadays, but I still don't like battle royale games because they feel like you do nothing for a very long time, all for just a few seconds of excitement.
Kinda like soccer, really. -
Malek86 wrote:
I'll play some racers online and maybe some co-op like the division but competitive shooters are dead to me now.
I'm okay with multiplayer nowadays, but I still don't like battle royale games because they feel like you do nothing for a very long time, all for just a few seconds of excitement.
Kinda like soccer, really. -
Frogofdoom 17,974 posts
Seen 3 hours ago
Registered 9 years agoMalek86 wrote:
feel like you do nothing for a very long time, all for just a few seconds of excitement.
Married life should prepare you for these situations -
Frogofdoom wrote:
Malek86 wrote:
feel like you do nothing for a very long time, all for just a few seconds of excitement.
Married life should prepare you for these situations
-
richardiox 10,099 posts
Seen 7 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoMalek86 wrote:
I'm at the point where you gave up and loving it. Pretty much rock solid 60fps with not a jaggy in sight and great IQ - playing on X. Looking forward to playing more.
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
I'm glad I was able to try it cheap with Game Pass without actually buying, because this is dire. The writing in the first couple hours has been utterly atrocious - I thought nothing could be worse than ROTR, but somehow they managed to top themselves. Considering it's the reboot series finale, I guess it's fitting, but still. I'm amazed anyone greenlit this.
I stopped after a couple hours. Got to the bit where you must explore the garden as young Lara. I was playing on hard mode, and it shows yet another issue with modern games - because you can now simply highlight the important bits, good level design that signposts important objects is completely gone. Remove the highlighting, and you'll be going around in circles, looking for that one important item you are missing.
Anyway, ROTR was at least fun to play, looked great and ran well enough. But this one manages to fail even on that part. Ridiculous events (how many arrows to the face can a jaguar take before dying?), supremely muddy visuals that make it even harder to find the already near-invisible important bits, and framerate that tanks whenever there's a tree on screen (read: always). The only improvement seems to be input lag, which is not as high as the last game despite the lower framerate. Still think they should have fixed that in ROTR.
Maybe this would be better on PS4, but there's no fixing the plot. Dropped like a mic.
Think we've hit the point this gen where base machines (especially the XBO) are really showing their age. -
Nitrous 2,295 posts
Seen 3 weeks ago
Registered 16 years agoVery tempted to get the gamepass offer to try crackdown 3 and a few others on my base xbox one.
Anyway,
Sniper Elite 4 (Base PS4)
Huge maps, good enough A.I and gunplay but I've not even completed the 1st mission and I'm already feeling that I've seen everything it has to offer. The xray kill cam is great fun but again I've seen enough. Worth pushing on or do I call it a day? -
DUFFMAN5 26,894 posts
Seen 3 hours ago
Registered 17 years ago@Nitrous
Surely you are not going to give up after 1 mission! I love the game and series and completed it and all dlc. To be honest if it hasn't clicked it probably wont. It is what it is, but again I say I think it is brilliant and got better with every sequel. Maybe try playing on co-op ?
Still plenty of players online.
As for Crackdown, I'm playing at the moment. It is great fun but somewhat repetitive, good for maybe clearing a couple of basses/areas then putting away until the following day. If you played the first and enjoyed you will love as 3 is basically identical. -
Bichii 4,672 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 4 years agoFAR CRY 5.
Guess I was just over half way through. Bored to death and I can't even find the next story mission. I assume it wants me to do side shite to open the next story level. Can't be bothered. I rarely bin games but I've now binned 3,4 and 5. Each time I think they look good and review well but each time I get my hands on them after ten hours I hate them. -
Zippity-zap 691 posts
Seen 4 hours ago
Registered 8 years ago@Bichii No, you're right. Aside from FC2, Blood Dragon and Primal, the series is pretty shitty. -
@Zippity-zap
Enjoyed 3 and 4. -
DUFFMAN5 26,894 posts
Seen 3 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoCrackdown 3. Played maybe 10 hours, it was fun-ish.
Alex Legends, although I didn't really start it. Played about 5 games. Not for me. -
Frogofdoom 17,974 posts
Seen 3 hours ago
Registered 9 years agoYou must have almost finished crackdown with that play time duff. -
Bichii wrote:
Have also abandoned FC5 myself recently. Completed just one region and bored as hell. And I bought the deluxe edition so that’s all the DLC in the bin as well
FAR CRY 5.
Guess I was just over half way through. Bored to death and I can't even find the next story mission. I assume it wants me to do side shite to open the next story level. Can't be bothered. I rarely bin games but I've now binned 3,4 and 5. Each time I think they look good and review well but each time I get my hands on them after ten hours I hate them.
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