Following Learning Japanese I think I'm learning Japanese I really think so Page 52

  • neilka 29 Jun 2017 19:59:35 23,273 posts
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    SpaceMonkey77 wrote:
    Hey, good luck with that. Always great to learn a new language & in time culture.

    I hope I can learn another one or two eventually too.
    Good luck to you also SpaceMonkey77-san.
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Jul 2017 18:17:07 28,696 posts
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    I'm using this page to learn my hiragana and (next) katakana. It's awesome.
  • The_Goon 7 Aug 2017 11:06:02 1,451 posts
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    Has anyone tried Wanikani? Thoughts?
  • Armoured_Bear 7 Aug 2017 11:08:34 28,696 posts
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    The duolingo app is great, I've pretty much nailed Hiragana because of it.
  • Mola_Ram 7 Aug 2017 11:13:00 23,529 posts
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    Personally, I didn't find Wanikani very helpful. But Wanikani teaches mostly through radicals, and by the time I started using it I was learning kanji with a different (more personalised) method, and already had about 800 under my belt.

    So, its ineffectiveness may at least partly be to me not really being able to start learning with radicals, after all this time not doing that. I imagine that it would be better for a beginner (though I do wonder how it manages when you get to kanji that have like 3 or 4 radicals to deal with).

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 11:13:18 07-08-2017
  • The_Goon 7 Aug 2017 12:37:27 1,451 posts
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    @Mola_Ram I don't like its subscription model but would be willing to have a look if others recommend it. Both it and RTK seem to have pretty cultish followings too which makes me wary. I made some progress a while back with RTK and while it was useful to have a vague meaning to certain kanji, ultimately it didn't teach you readings or words.

    I'm hoping to dive back into studying soon and looking at as efficient a solution as possible before I do so. Think I'll probably use a textbook and then use a Core2K etc. deck on Anki, while supplementing with sentences from some manga that I've got (currently Yotsuba and Doraemon but Slam Dunk is on the way which I'm pretty stoked about).
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 7 Aug 2017 15:53:52 3,890 posts
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    Making my own decks is what always put me off Anki. Same with flashcards. I have some good resources but have difficulty using them efficiently.

    Currently playing around with fan translating short stories and games)for practice but my kanji knowledge is abysnal now compared to where it was...
  • The_Goon 8 Aug 2017 15:38:24 1,451 posts
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    MnN workbooks - worth it or worthless?
  • Ghibli 8 Aug 2017 16:26:34 259 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    The duolingo app is great, I've pretty much nailed Hiragana because of it.
    I'm loving the duolingo course. Not sure if it's my age addled brain but I'm finding it very slow going though. Currently doing 50xp a day, and only 10xp comes from a new lesson each time. I hit the "dumbbell" button the rest of the time to reinforce what I've learnt.

    It's working, but like I say. Slow. Loving it all the same. I lived in Japan for a year as a kid, and to my shame (aside from wakarimasen and watashi wa scotorando jin desu ) every one was so good at English, so keen to practice English and so friendly, that I learnt little of the language myself.

    We're planning a return in the next couple of years and this time I'm determined to learn before I go.

    I've come across a couple of stumbling blocks with duolingo so far. Namely getting my head round the same character making different sounds. The first example being Chu and Naka. It just doesn't explain it at all. So I'm answering Chu and it reads out Naka. Thank saint Berners-Lee for internet searches. Today it was me trying to figure out why Ha was being read out as Wa.

    It would be handy if it could explain these things. They're, admittedly, easy to figure out thanks to Google, but some forewarning would be handy :)

    Highly recommended though. That and an app called Hiragana Learn Experiment.
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 8 Aug 2017 16:52:55 3,890 posts
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    The_Goon wrote:
    MnN workbooks - worth it or worthless?
    It would depend how much you think you would like what you would get from a class. We probably had homework from the workbook in my course but I don't really rememberthem too much.

    @Ghibli As for the Chuu vs Naka, most kanji have at least 2 readings, one based on Chinese and one for Japanese words (KUN (Japanese) and ON (Chinese) readings). If the word is a compound it is usually the Chinese reading and if it is standalone or appended by hiragana it usually uses the Japanese reading. Some kanji have multiple readings of each type and the occasional one only has the one reading. Some awkward ones even have a weird exception reading too (the word. 八百屋 YAOYA being one that springs to mind for the 百 (HYAKU) kanji being read as O). That is just the basics though but hopefully helps you a little. Also the Chinese reading is generally (I think always) one syllable.

    Edit - typos

    Edited by One_Vurfed_Gwrx at 16:57:32 08-08-2017
  • Ghibli 8 Aug 2017 17:26:46 259 posts
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    @One_Vurfed_Gwrx that (kind of) helps. ;)

    Thanks :)
  • Telepathic.Geometry 15 Aug 2017 18:56:09 12,422 posts
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    Worth it.
  • The_Goon 16 Aug 2017 09:38:48 1,451 posts
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    Cheers, guys.

    I've just grabbed MnN I and II and their translations recently. I decided against working through Genki on recommendations here and further reading around which is better. MnN sounds like a better fit for what I want to achieve.

    Now as a self-studyer, how would people recommend approaching the books? I can understand the first chapter at least without problem, so haven't needed to consult the translations but feel like I'm missing something for the purposes of taking it in. Perhaps it's because I already know some stuff.
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 16 Aug 2017 11:35:54 3,890 posts
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    It has been many years since I went through MnN but if I recallI would study the translations book to make sure I understood stuff then use the main book to practice and make sure I understood it. In our final year of university we got a textbook which had no grammar explanations at all, not even in Japanese and I hated it especially as by that level we are talking differences of nuance where it isn't easy to just gain the differences from context. (Chukyuu kara manabu nihongo)
  • Armoured_Bear 19 Jul 2018 21:25:11 28,696 posts
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    I've been doing private classes for 10 months or so.
    I can read hiragana and katakana (albeit slowly) and want to learn kanji.
    Any amazing tips?
  • Tonka 20 Jul 2018 07:26:06 30,645 posts
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    @Armoured_Bear there's an app called memrise that is good for Chinese characters. They might have them with Japanese pronunciation.

    It gets very repetitive after a while but that's very much on purpose.
  • Mola_Ram 20 Jul 2018 08:48:56 23,529 posts
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    If mnemonics work for you, the book Remembering the Kanji might be worth a look. It didn't really help me because I'd already learned hundreds of kanji before reading the book (and changing methods midstream is really hard), but it might be good for beginners.

    And it doesn't teach you the Japanese readings for them either. It's just learning their English meanings.
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 20 Jul 2018 10:49:47 3,890 posts
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    I was using the kanji in context book and its workbooks and rote repetition (make sure you know the basics of stroke order though). Again, some textbooks had decent supplementary kanji materials (I liked Minna no Nihongos, I was less impressed with Genki). If flashcards work for you White Rabbit Press used to (and assumedly still do) make flashcard packs (they used to be by JLPT level so the introductory 4/3 box was relatively small but may have changed to the N levels now). They were decent quality and well presented but I never found an effective way of using them for me. I hear some people like using Anki with some decks but only dabbled with that.

    One key though is practice or you will forget. My writing and reading has horribly deteriorated through lack of practice and struggling to get back into a routine of self study.

    Edit - I also bought some Japanese graded reader (kids) books which were fun as they start at a very low level and work up. There are also a few parallel text short story books but you need a higher level for those really.

    Edited by One_Vurfed_Gwrx at 10:51:29 20-07-2018
  • The_Goon 20 Jul 2018 10:52:38 1,451 posts
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    I tried Remembering the Kanji (RTK) on and off for ages. It is definitely useful in teaching the meanings but I began to query the point after I tried actually reading text. It's certainly useful to get a vague meaning sometimes but I think I'm personally better off using something else.
  • Mola_Ram 20 Jul 2018 10:59:00 23,529 posts
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    Read manga if you can, too. Kids manga in particular, because they give you the furigana readings for kanji.
  • The_Goon 20 Jul 2018 18:50:11 1,451 posts
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    I bought the whole Yotsubato! catalogue in Japanese for this purpose. Not quite kidsí manga but itís supposed to be quite easy to read and nevertheless hilarious.
  • Zomoniac 16 Nov 2018 22:36:13 10,166 posts
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    I got some Japanese pancake mix. According to the Google translate camera I need to add egg of heaven, and something about babies. Can anyone tell me what these instructions say?
  • uiruki 16 Nov 2018 22:51:43 5,155 posts
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    The pictures should make it clear. You mix the first two powders til they dissolve fully in 160ml of water, add your veg, eggs and fried bits (from the packet), then cook it all as directed. First side for 3m at 200, while adding your meat, flip and steam grill while covered at 240 for 5 minutes, then flip again and crisp up for 2 more minutes. You can make 2-3 from the mix provided.

    The stuff your app will have gotten wrong will be 天かす, which are the fried bits of batter left over from tempura, and 玉子 which is an alternative way of writing eggs that still trips up translation programs all the time.
  • Zomoniac 16 Nov 2018 22:59:54 10,166 posts
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    @uiruki thanks very much, thatís a big help :)
  • Mola_Ram 17 Nov 2018 06:16:34 23,529 posts
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    No no no, you actually need to mix some babies in. That's the secret ingredient in okonomiyaki.
  • Armoured_Bear 29 Sep 2019 23:28:17 28,696 posts
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    I'm well impressed with this book, really simplifies a lot of stuff. Highly recommended.
  • The_Goon 30 Sep 2019 00:08:07 1,451 posts
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    @Armoured_Bear Spam or legit? Sorry, post seems a bit spammy!
  • Armoured_Bear 30 Sep 2019 00:39:19 28,696 posts
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    The_Goon wrote:
    @Armoured_Bear Spam or legit? Sorry, post seems a bit spammy!
    Legit , bought it recently and was well impressed!
    Apologies for the spammy style
  • Graxlar_v3 30 Sep 2019 07:47:16 9,926 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    The_Goon wrote:
    @Armoured_Bear Spam or legit? Sorry, post seems a bit spammy!
    Legit , bought it recently and was well impressed!
    Apologies for the spammy style
    Thatís whatís spam bot would want you to think hmmm.
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 30 Sep 2019 11:06:47 3,890 posts
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    I was always a fan of Tae Kim's free online Japanese grammar guide. I went through textbooks as a student of course but I like the way Tae Kim does things and as it is all about grammar you can pick and choose how to learn your vocabulary.

    Textbooks have always been of varying quality (I disliked the Genki series for being overly simple and enjoyed Minna no Nihongo more). Intermediate and above is where textbooks got worse as even our university textbook for final year didn't even have grammar explanations (even in Japanese) so they recommended the Japanese grammar dictionaries to go with it which were out of print and overpriced at the time.

    I looked at that link and I suppose it could be useful if we'll done as an alternative for beginners which it seems to be aimed at. The existence of a romaji only version makes me raise my eyebrows a bit though even if it is an optional free extra...

    At least Japanese has a huge range of resources compared to other languages like Korean which my son has decided I have to teach him (which I am a lot less fluent in than Japanese).
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