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I always associate romaji with phrasebooks for tourists. If you're at all serious about learning the language, then you at least need the kanas. I still read a bit (mostly manga), but I've recently gotten the urge to go back and learn more kanji. That was my favourite part of the language by far. |
Learning Japanese I think I'm learning Japanese I really think so
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Mola_Ram 23,529 posts
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One_Vurfed_Gwrx 3,890 posts
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Registered 14 years agoMola_Ram wrote:
Exactly. The kanji was also one of my favourite bits, albeit the bit I have lost competency with the most. I am regoing over all my old stuff again to try and kick start the brain.
I always associate romaji with phrasebooks for tourists. If you're at all serious about learning the language, then you at least need the kanas.
I still read a bit (mostly manga), but I've recently gotten the urge to go back and learn more kanji. That was my favourite part of the language by far. -
HarryPalmer 6,096 posts
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Registered 14 years agoI start lessons tonight. Been doing Duolingo for a while but feels like learning by rote, probably because it is. Learnt a fair bit of vocab and kana though, just struggle to recall it outside of the app. -
The_Goon 1,451 posts
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Registered 7 years agoI really need to get back into this and make it a habit to study. I have MNN and various other textbooks/apps but just haven't put time in to learn in months. And then I have a buttload of Yotsubato and Doraemon manga (in Japanese) to read once I'm up to scratch! Never going to be able to read them at this point! -
Armoured_Bear 28,696 posts
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Registered 8 years agoMola_Ram wrote:
I can read hiragana and katakana no problem (albeit slowly) but struggling with Kanji, only know a dozen or so max
I always associate romaji with phrasebooks for tourists. If you're at all serious about learning the language, then you at least need the kanas.
I still read a bit (mostly manga), but I've recently gotten the urge to go back and learn more kanji. That was my favourite part of the language by far.
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Mola_Ram 23,529 posts
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Registered 8 years agoIt might not feel like it at the beginning, but once you know more kanji you can read a lot faster. These days I find that I can comprehend a sentence much more easily with kanji (assuming I know the kanji) than I can with hiragana.
It's like learning words with meanings, as opposed to just collections of sounds. -
Armoured_Bear 28,696 posts
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Registered 8 years agoMola_Ram wrote:
I think that's the trickiest thing to get your head round, you're not reading words the way you're used to in European languages....
It might not feel like it at the beginning, but once you know more kanji you can read a lot faster. These days I find that I can comprehend a sentence much more easily with kanji (assuming I know the kanji) than I can with hiragana.
It's like learning words with meanings, as opposed to just collections of sounds. -
One_Vurfed_Gwrx 3,890 posts
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Registered 14 years agoMola_Ram wrote:
Definitely. Fan translating a katakana only NES game was a nightmare with the homonyms etc.
It might not feel like it at the beginning, but once you know more kanji you can read a lot faster. These days I find that I can comprehend a sentence much more easily with kanji (assuming I know the kanji) than I can with hiragana.
It's like learning words with meanings, as opposed to just collections of sounds. -
The_Goon 1,451 posts
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Registered 7 years agoMola_Ram wrote:
Do you recommend a particular method to learning Kanji? I've tried Heisig in the past but I'm not necessarily convinced its the best way to go.
It might not feel like it at the beginning, but once you know more kanji you can read a lot faster. These days I find that I can comprehend a sentence much more easily with kanji (assuming I know the kanji) than I can with hiragana.
It's like learning words with meanings, as opposed to just collections of sounds. -
Nazo 1,305 posts
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Registered 11 years agoI found Heisig really good but I think it helps a lot that I was in Japan at the time and constantly exposed to kanji. -
Mola_Ram 23,529 posts
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Registered 8 years agoIs that the Remembering the Kanji guy?
The problem I had with that method is that I came to it too late, so it would have required me to unlearn what I already knew and start again. Iirc his method doesn't teach the furigana readings of the kanji either, so it's less useful for that.
As for what I did... there's no trick, really. I read a lot of shounen manga, anything that had the furigana readings on the side. I had a DS game called Nazotte! Oboete! Otona No Kanji Renshuu, which was great for practising kanji reading and writing. If you expose yourself to as much writing as you can, eventually you begin to pick up patterns, and can even guess a lot of words from their context.
Reading lots, basically. -
Nazo 1,305 posts
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Registered 11 years agoEven if you don’t bother with the story aspect Of Heisig just remembering the meanings gives your brain a point of reference and the more you have the more likely you are to remember. When I encounter a word I don’t know I can often guess the meaning from the meanings of the kanji in it. And I can take a stab at the reading by working back from other words I remember the kanji being in.
I think his basic idea is sound but yeah, I forgot he says you shouldn’t learn anything else at the same time which I don’t agree with. -
tamatama 18 posts
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Registered 10 months agoAs others have said here, exposure to the language. I've not tried Helsig, but here are a few things I've found work for me. I've found a combination of vocab building - through reading, watching/listening, conversation practice - and then handwriting new words I encounter to be helpful. It helps to tie the various readings to concrete examples. And handwriting encourages me to 'break down' the kanji and get a better feel for them (I'd just been making notes on a phone/computer before).
For reading, NHK News Web Easy has short, manageable articles with lots of furigana. It even highlights names, which can sometimes have non-standard readings. It's targeted at Japanese elementary and junior high kids. Kodansha's Bookwalker platform has a huge amount of free/sample material too, across a wide range of difficulty levels and topics.
I also picked up some old DS software that I've found surprisingly useful. 'Tadashii Kanji Kakitori-kun' organises the Joyo kanji into school grade, then lists them by on-reading. The definitions and example words help with remembering and learning new things. If you like singing and have a Switch, the Joysound app on the Japanese eShop can be a fun way to learn. Another suggestion is changing your devices' language to Japanese. You'll soon start to pick up kanji for things like 'notification' and 'settings'.
Long post...hope it's helpful! -
Nazo 1,305 posts
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Registered 11 years agoI find KanjiBox really good as well for drills. There’s a paid app for iOS and a free web version. -
One_Vurfed_Gwrx 3,890 posts
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Registered 14 years agoI used to use kanji box when it was a Facebook app. Not tried it in years though. I have various DS kanji softs that I never used enough (apart from the essential kanji no sonomama rakubiki jiten dictionary which is still handy today and was a godsend back in 2008)
Book wise I have used the Kanji in Context book series a few times and have just restarted on it recently. There is a slightly newer version than mine (the old joyo 1945+2 kanji as opposed to the newer set).
Other than that I translate short stories and light novels, making sure to handwrite all of my lines for writing practice.
I have considered getting PS4 joysound but no idea where to get an okay mic for the PS4 that will work. It used to be good practice while living in Japan though (in the actual Karaoke rooms of course) -
The_Goon 1,451 posts
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Registered 7 years agoThanks, guys. I think I'll actually take a stab at Heisig again and try to be a bit more rigorous with it. I'll try to back it up with some vocab as well if I can find the time. I do like how he categorised kanji by radicals. Makes it much easier to learn than trying to learn by the different joyo kanji levels.
Something is better than nothing.
NHK Web Easy looks pretty decent too (thanks, tamatama). Managed to work my way through a few sentences of that with liberal use of a dictionary app.
EDIT:
食物のと酒以外の飲み物を買って
Furigana in brackets (OR NOT...emojis bugger it) or as seen here - https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/k10012106681000/k10012106681000.html
I can't figure out the bit about alcohol. Non-drink alcohol?
Edited by The_Goon at 17:39:19 01-10-2019 -
Armoured_Bear 28,696 posts
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Registered 8 years agotamatama wrote:
Looks good, thanks!
For reading, NHK News Web Easy has short, manageable articles with lots of furigana. It even highlights names, which can sometimes have non-standard readings. It's targeted at Japanese elementary and junior high kids. -
Mola_Ram 23,529 posts
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Registered 8 years ago@The_Goon
Probably non-alcoholic drinks.
Edited by Mola_Ram at 17:44:09 01-10-2019 -
The_Goon 1,451 posts
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Registered 7 years agoMola_Ram wrote:
I figured that too but I couldn't figure out the grammar of it.
@The_Goon
Probably non-alcoholic drinks. -
Mola_Ram 23,529 posts
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Registered 8 years agoIt's not really a grammar thing, unless you count the 'no' particle.
'Sake' means 'alcohol'. 'Igai' means 'outside' or 'without'. 'no' is a particle that modifies the noun that comes after it with whatever comes before it. And 'nomimono' (drink) comes after it, so literally it means 'drink with no alcohol'.
(sorry, it's kind of hard to explain without being able to type Japanese text) -
Armoured_Bear 28,696 posts
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Registered 8 years agoI have a private class every week and 3/4 days a week have lunch in a Japanese Restaurant where two of the staff chat to me in Japanese.
I really struggle to keep up with understanding them, my brain is too slow.
Any tips for resources to improve understanding? -
One_Vurfed_Gwrx 3,890 posts
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Registered 14 years agoListen to some audio stuff online? Crunchy roll has some slower anime such as Yamishibai.
Forgot to mention re. Kanji that I didn't like the look of Heisig at all but if it works for you go for it. -
The_Goon 1,451 posts
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Registered 7 years agoMola_Ram wrote:
Ah cheers. The meaning I came across for "igai" was "except" which is why I was getting confused.
It's not really a grammar thing, unless you count the 'no' particle.
'Sake' means 'alcohol'. 'Igai' means 'outside' or 'without'. 'no' is a particle that modifies the noun that comes after it with whatever comes before it. And 'nomimono' (drink) comes after it, so literally it means 'drink with no alcohol'.
(sorry, it's kind of hard to explain without being able to type Japanese text) -
The_Goon 1,451 posts
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Registered 7 years ago@One_Vurfed_Gwrx Any recommendations? -
Mola_Ram 23,529 posts
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Registered 8 years agoThe_Goon wrote:
Yeah, 'igai' is also used in that way. It just depends on context!
Mola_Ram wrote:
Ah cheers. The meaning I came across for "igai" was "except" which is why I was getting confused.
It's not really a grammar thing, unless you count the 'no' particle.
'Sake' means 'alcohol'. 'Igai' means 'outside' or 'without'. 'no' is a particle that modifies the noun that comes after it with whatever comes before it. And 'nomimono' (drink) comes after it, so literally it means 'drink with no alcohol'.
(sorry, it's kind of hard to explain without being able to type Japanese text) -
tamatama 18 posts
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Registered 10 months agoOne_Vurfed_Gwrx wrote:
Been using a wired Wii U mic. It does the job and feels pretty solid for the price. The PS4 Joysound site lists confirmed compatibility with the Wii U mics, Wii Joysound mic (white), a Sony condenser mic, and the awful earbuds/mic that come with the PS4.
I have considered getting PS4 joysound but no idea where to get an okay mic for the PS4 that will work. It used to be good practice while living in Japan though (in the actual Karaoke rooms of course)
Don’t know why I didn’t think to look for Joysound on my PS4 before, so thanks for the heads up. Tickets are cheaper than on Switch, so might give it a go at some point.
Also, if you have PSVR, there's dedicated support. The panoramic movies really hammer home that one would probably be doing VR karaoke on one's own though: snowboard date with ‘girlfriend’, ikemen butlers attending your every (karaoke) whim, private singing lessons with a beautiful teacher! -
tamatama 18 posts
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Registered 10 months agoYou’re welcome - glad the NHK site looks helpful! Do people also have some light novel or short story recommendations? Don’t worry about level - if they’re too difficult I’ll add them to the tsundoku backlog. -
One_Vurfed_Gwrx 3,890 posts
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Registered 14 years agoThe_Goon wrote:
I have never been too good at listening to audio only stuff, and don't even listen to Enish audio stuff (be that music or podcasts etc).
@One_Vurfed_Gwrx Any recommendations?
Anime, I specified one example of a show that uses quite simple language at a slow pace so may be good practice, Yamishibai (7 seasons at 5 minutes an episode available on crunchy roll free).
I use games too but I am higher level, finding beginner friendly stuff is hard. I have a set of graded readers with levels 1-4 which came with audio CDs too but not sure if they are cheaply available now. -
One_Vurfed_Gwrx 3,890 posts
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Registered 14 years ago@tamatama I never thought of just checking the website... Now to see if I can find a cheap mic (not an audiophile here so should be easily pleased). I wouldn't use the buds and mini mic or any of this mobile phone shite they expect you to use with Singstar etc now .gif)
Don't have PSVR. -
@One_Vurfed_Gwrx Ha! I hear you on that. I bought the Wii U mic off Amazon UK for just under £15 a month or so ago. It’s also worth downloading the Joysound companion phone/tablet app to get closer to the karaoke box experience (for entering songs, changing settings, etc.).
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