Following Learning Japanese I think I'm learning Japanese I really think so Page 54

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  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 1 Oct 2019 23:32:56 3,891 posts
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    @tamatama I have Japanese keyboard set upon my PS4 so should be simple enough. I didn't know it had a companion app though. The WiiU mic was one I had heard mentioned a few times so may have to keep an eye out for one.
  • The_Goon 2 Oct 2019 00:22:20 1,451 posts
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    One_Vurfed_Gwrx wrote:
    The_Goon wrote:
    @One_Vurfed_Gwrx Any recommendations?
    I have never been too good at listening to audio only stuff, and don't even listen to Enish audio stuff (be that music or podcasts etc).

    Anime, I specified one example of a show that uses quite simple language at a slow pace so may be good practice, Yamishibai (7 seasons at 5 minutes an episode available on crunchy roll free).

    I use games too but I am higher level, finding beginner friendly stuff is hard. I have a set of graded readers with levels 1-4 which came with audio CDs too but not sure if they are cheaply available now.
    Cheers. I was referring to kanji recommendations though really. Any recommendations?
  • tamatama 2 Oct 2019 11:40:27 18 posts
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    @One_Vurfed_Gwrx The app is for general Joysound use. You can create a centralised profile on it to use with any compatible machine, e.g. at home or at a karaoke-kan. Also useful if you have a group of people round. Everyone can download the app to their phone or you can pass round a tablet, so the menus don't take up screen space while someone's singing.

    I've found the karaoke's been pretty great for improving reading speed/scan reading skills too.
  • Nazo 2 Oct 2019 12:36:57 1,306 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    The_Goon wrote:
    Mola_Ram wrote:
    It's not really a grammar thing, unless you count the 'no' particle.

    'Sake' means 'alcohol'. 'Igai' means 'outside' or 'without'. 'no' is a particle that modifies the noun that comes after it with whatever comes before it. And 'nomimono' (drink) comes after it, so literally it means 'drink with no alcohol'.

    (sorry, it's kind of hard to explain without being able to type Japanese text)
    Ah cheers. The meaning I came across for "igai" was "except" which is why I was getting confused.
    Yeah, 'igai' is also used in that way. It just depends on context!
    I’d say “drinks except for alcohol” would be a fairly literal translation, so it’s not really a context thing, it just requires a bit of word reordering to make sense in English.

    The Read Real Japanese books are pretty good for reading practice, Japanese stories/ essays with explanations of the tricky bits.

    I don’t think there’s a magic bullet for learning Kanji sadly, just lots of hard graft. Personally I never got much out of repeatedly writing them but people’s learning styles are different I guess. Having said that it’s important to understand the rules around stroke order and where to use or multiple strokes to make dictionary lookups easier.
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 2 Oct 2019 13:12:42 3,891 posts
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    The_Goon wrote:
    One_Vurfed_Gwrx wrote:
    The_Goon wrote:
    @One_Vurfed_Gwrx Any recommendations?
    I have never been too good at listening to audio only stuff, and don't even listen to Enish audio stuff (be that music or podcasts etc).

    Anime, I specified one example of a show that uses quite simple language at a slow pace so may be good practice, Yamishibai (7 seasons at 5 minutes an episode available on crunchy roll free).

    I use games too but I am higher level, finding beginner friendly stuff is hard. I have a set of graded readers with levels 1-4 which came with audio CDs too but not sure if they are cheaply available now.
    Cheers. I was referring to kanji recommendations though really. Any recommendations?
    In physical books the Kanji in Context book and workbooks are generally very highly regarded. They do lack stroke orders though if that is a weakness that you have. The newer versions are available on Amazon Japan. Workbook 1 will cover the first 1000-1200ish kanji but I bought both, even though I have never really been ready to use the second book. The main Kanji in Context book itself works stand one if you want to use it to make sensibly organised flashcards etc.

    My experience is with the older book but I imagine the newer one is pretty much the same but with the updated kanji lists.

    DS soft, my most used has been the dictionary, I haven't got into the training software as much as I would like.
  • Immaterial 1 Apr 2020 13:01:24 2,397 posts
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    So, to help my family get through all the quarantine and suchlike, I've mentioned the possibility of going to Japan in a year and a half's time (hopefully not at the same time as the Olympics). The main reason (apart from wanting to go to Japan, obvs.) is to get the kids using their brains- we're only going to go if we can manage at least some conversational Japanese.

    There are about 80 billion different websites, podcasts and so on out there. Can the hivemind recommend something online that would suit a couple of 10-12 year olds and a couple of old farts?

    I don't want to scare them with hiragana (yet)...
    edit: that said, Tae Kim's stuff recommends learning hiragana first. Hmm.

    Edited by Immaterial at 13:19:00 01-04-2020
  • Mola_Ram 1 Apr 2020 13:19:48 23,552 posts
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    Mango languages is a pretty good service, if you just want to have basic conversational skills. Don't know if it's free-free or just free-through-your-public-library-that-is-probably-closed-right-now, though.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 13:20:01 01-04-2020
  • Malek86 1 Apr 2020 13:21:27 10,034 posts
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    Can't help, I'm entirely self-taught (and not very well at that).

    I do suggest getting their feet wet with hiragana and katakana first, because if you can read those, it then becomes just a matter of learning a few grammar rules before you can get the sense of most phrases.
  • Mola_Ram 1 Apr 2020 13:25:40 23,552 posts
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    If you're going to learn the writing and don't want to commit to learning the entire language, go with katakana. Katakana has a few functions, but is mostly used for foreign words. So if you can read that, you can pick up a bunch of words that you'll already know because they came from English.
  • Malek86 1 Apr 2020 13:32:40 10,034 posts
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    I'd say Katakana is useful as a starter, because you can learn it easily by writing foreign words.

    Hiragana is harder, but it will be much more useful, because just about every grammar construct uses it.

    Kanji is of course needed for words, but you can probably get away with learning only a few essential ones and then relying on some translating tool.
  • Nazo 1 Apr 2020 13:40:44 1,306 posts
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    JapanesePod101.com are giving away 3 months of access to their beginner course:

    https://www.japanesepod101.com/free-pathway?utm_source=pathwaygiveaway&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=contentmarketing

    I haven't tried their beginner courses but their more advanced stuff is pretty good so it's worth a look.
  • Immaterial 1 Apr 2020 13:45:33 2,397 posts
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    Mola- thanks for the Mango pointer. I can get that through our library so we'll give it a go- maybe use both that and Tae Kim, although Mango goes with learning some Romaji first, alongside the pronounciation guides.

    edit- wow- thanks all!
    This is all James May's fault, by the way.

    Edited by Immaterial at 13:46:28 01-04-2020
  • Mola_Ram 1 Apr 2020 14:18:57 23,552 posts
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    It depends how serious you are about learning. The kanas are relatively easy to learn with a bit of practice (at this point I can read them basically fluently, without much thought), but honestly hiragana in particular is more just a stepping stone to kanji. And you likely don't want to learn kanji unless you are serious, it's a really big investment.

    Anyway, if you're just going for a visit I would spend more time just learning basic vocab and phrases, even if they're only in romaji. For the most part you don't need to read the language as a tourist, as most (or all) of the major signs will have English translations on them.
  • Immaterial 1 Apr 2020 16:37:55 2,397 posts
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    Well, partly it's to get the kids thinking about life after quarantine, partly it's because we'd really like to go, but mostly it's to keep them from killing each other whilst we're all locked down. If that involves memorising 3000 kanji characters, then so be it... Was going to start going from 0 to conversation, then see how we do from there.
  • uiruki 1 Apr 2020 16:44:18 5,155 posts
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    Have you thought about JLPT N4 as an aim, next year? The test's run in the summer and winter so you should have results by next autumn.
  • Immaterial 1 Apr 2020 16:51:05 2,397 posts
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    I don't even know what that is, but I'll look into it.
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 1 Apr 2020 19:27:57 3,891 posts
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    I would say Hiragana is easier than katakana as there are less similar characters such as ソ/ン, シ/ツ etc. Also they look a bit more distinctive in general. You will also see a lot of furigana (the hiragana above a kanji telling you how to read it) which is another big use for hiragana. Ultimately you really should try and learn both. I did this for other countries I visited where I had no previous knowledge (learning the Russian and Ukrainian Cyrillic alphabets for example).

    For sites I would have suggested Tae Kim but you already know about that. I did my initial learning through textbooks and uni classes so they probably won't help. I used Minna no Nihongo but Genki I (which I personally dislike) is a lot simpler and you can get away with just the textbook. But for a holiday it may be a bit more than you need.

    I thought this lockdown would be great for my own practice but having family in all of the time and not able to escape to library etc has made me end up with less study time than usual...
  • Immaterial 2 Apr 2020 11:50:34 2,397 posts
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    Thanks for the tips, all.
    The main sticking point is going to be the missus, to be honest- the kids are digital natives after all, but Mrs Immaterial isn't a great one for solo study!
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