Following The Tennis Thread (Wimbleton!) Page 164

  • JYM60 1 Jun 2021 11:33:59 19,042 posts
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    If there is something seriously wrong with her mental health wouldn't competing have been a mistake anyway?
  • sport 1 Jun 2021 11:42:08 17,031 posts
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    Well I just hope the media breaks her more. Once her empty shell is servicing the machine, she'll be happier and more appreciative.
  • JamboWayOh 1 Jun 2021 11:44:32 24,972 posts
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    sport wrote:
    Well I just hope the media breaks her more. Once her empty shell is servicing the machine, she'll be happier and more appreciative.
    Glol...oh Sport...
  • Nanocrystal 1 Jun 2021 11:50:34 2,522 posts
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    I already thought tennis players were a bunch of princesses after the way some of them reacted to the quarantine in Melbourne.
  • Load_2.0 1 Jun 2021 12:05:27 33,522 posts
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    On the one hand this is a sportsperson who made over 50 million in one year and a big part of earning that amount requires media duties. It's part and parcel of modern sports. If attendance is optional who would bother to do it?

    It's also a bit odd to suggest the support isn't there. I'd suggest pro athletes have access to dome of the best mental health experts available on a daily basis.

    On the other hand forcing someone to front up and potentially have a breakdown on TV is hideous.

    I think you have to make occasional exceptions but somehow balance it so it isn't abused or used as an advantage in tournaments.
  • askew 1 Jun 2021 12:41:20 24,015 posts
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    Probably doesn't help having all Grand Slam organisers say "OI!" rather than just the current French Open – who have released a statement in response but themselves fielded no further questions…
  • RGeefe 1 Jun 2021 13:49:06 2,351 posts
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    Yeah I mean, I've got mixed feelings on Osaka anyway. She grew up in the US, doesn't speak Japanese and only represents the country because her family thought she'd have less competition for places.

    She may well have anxiety but you're telling me Andy Murray is happy in front of a mic? Literally every sportsperson in a solo competition has to do the media. It's part of the job.

    It's just been handled badly by all sides, in my view. She should go away for a bit, sort herself out and maybe privately speak to the ATP and other players, rather than throwing it all out there.
  • JamboWayOh 1 Jun 2021 13:55:05 24,972 posts
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    Errr, she does speak Japanese. She has stated she can understand it very well but gets nervous speaking it in public. I'm not sure what her nationality or who she represents has to do with anything at all.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 1 Jun 2021 14:16:16 33,944 posts
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    I'm amazed anyone gives a shit about one less utterly pointless session of inane questions.

    She doesn't like it, we dont have to listen to same old questions and dull soundbites, the world keeps revolving.
  • RGeefe 1 Jun 2021 14:30:07 2,351 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    Errr, she does speak Japanese. She has stated she can understand it very well but gets nervous speaking it in public. I'm not sure what her nationality or who she represents has to do with anything at all.
    It was more that her parents chose her to represent Japan rather than the US because she would face less competition for places. Never struck me as particularly sporting and just a cynical move.

    Like when English footballers represent Scotland or Ireland
  • Mola_Ram 1 Jun 2021 15:19:48 26,052 posts
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    I mean... who cares? She has a Japanese parent, it's part of her heritage so she can play for Japan if she wants to. Maybe it's cynical, but it's not as if she's lacking in talent anyway.

    And, social media missteps aside, she seems like a decent human being. Humble and a good sport. So I hope she gets the help she needs, because the tennis world needs more great players that aren't complete assholes.
  • Jono62 1 Jun 2021 15:30:09 27,230 posts
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    @Mola_Ram Agreed. Tennis may be her escape from the shit in her life that is making her feel the way she is.

    I'm sure the organisers could have compromised by having her doing the interviews in a closed setting with one person.
  • Armoured_Bear 1 Jun 2021 15:36:47 31,138 posts
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    RGeefe wrote:
    JamboWayOh wrote:
    Errr, she does speak Japanese. She has stated she can understand it very well but gets nervous speaking it in public. I'm not sure what her nationality or who she represents has to do with anything at all.
    It was more that her parents chose her to represent Japan rather than the US because she would face less competition for places. Never struck me as particularly sporting and just a cynical move.

    Like when English footballers represent Scotland or Ireland
    Where did they say it was for less competition?

    "She was born in Osaka and was brought up in a household of Japanese and Haitian culture," her parents continued. "Quite simply, Naomi and her sister Mari have always felt Japanese so that was our only rationale. It was never a financially motivated decision nor were we ever swayed either way by any national federation."

    She's arguably the best player in the world yet represents Japan for cynical reasons?
    She comes across as honest, likeable and is a fantastic role model, especially now with her stance with the French Open. Thankfully not everyone is as compassionless as you when it comes to mental health.
  • RGeefe 1 Jun 2021 15:43:48 2,351 posts
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    @Armoured_Bear hadn't seen that. What I saw was skimmed a few years ago, I admit.

    I wouldn't say I'm compassionless but it's just doing interviews. She's not being a fucking surgeon or running into bullets.
  • Load_2.0 1 Jun 2021 15:48:07 33,522 posts
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    Jono62 wrote:
    @Mola_Ram Agreed. Tennis may be her escape from the shit in her life that is making her feel the way she is.

    I'm sure the organisers could have compromised by having her doing the interviews in a closed setting with one person.
    I'm not sure being a professional tennis player is great for stress/anxiety.

    I think there has to be an element of reality applied. Professional tennis players are paid tens of millions a year. They're paid millions to be the face of products, to do interviews and to play tennis.

    If elements of that cause you distress the obvious answer is to stop.

    She can play tennis for the rest of her life she just won't get paid a million bucks to do it.
  • Dougs 1 Jun 2021 15:52:49 100,274 posts
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    We don't know what her health issues are (or rather, I don't). The tennis federations have a duty of care to make reasonable adjustments to enable someone to work. Not throw her under a bus.
  • JamboWayOh 1 Jun 2021 15:55:41 24,972 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    We don't know what her health issues are (or rather, I don't). The tennis federations have a duty of care to make reasonable adjustments to enable someone to work. Not throw her under a bus.
    Apparently some people in this thread think the opposite. It's a bit weird frankly, it kinda feels like that being rich means your mental health issues aren't to be taken as seriously as others.
  • Load_2.0 1 Jun 2021 16:00:45 33,522 posts
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    Lol she isn't chained to the posts of centre court.

    She will have the BEST sports psychologists speaking to her daily. It's not like she has to wait for a free NHS appointment.

    If the stress and anxiety of playing professional tennis and being in the spotlight is going to be detrimental to mental health surely the answer is to stop? Take a break?
  • Armoured_Bear 1 Jun 2021 16:01:38 31,138 posts
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    RGeefe wrote:
    @Armoured_Bear hadn't seen that. What I saw was skimmed a few years ago, I admit.

    I wouldn't say I'm compassionless but it's just doing interviews. She's not being a fucking surgeon or running into bullets.
    I think you should read up a bit on mental health tbh, do you think a top athlete would walk away from a Grand Slam she has a good chance of winning ( as well as a million quid or so) because "just interviews" are a piece of pish for her?
  • senso-ji 1 Jun 2021 16:01:50 10,258 posts
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    RGeefe wrote:
    Yeah I mean, I've got mixed feelings on Osaka anyway. She grew up in the US, doesn't speak Japanese and only represents the country because her family thought she'd have less competition for places.
    Even if this were true, what difference does it make which country you represent if you can't translate that success onto the world stage? Being your country's best player doesn't have any bearing on grand slam success (of which Osaka has four titles); look at the current British number one Tennis players for example.
  • JamboWayOh 1 Jun 2021 16:08:37 24,972 posts
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    Load_2.0 wrote:
    Lol she isn't chained to the posts of centre court.

    She will have the BEST sports psychologists speaking to her daily. It's not like she has to wait for a free NHS appointment.

    If the stress and anxiety of playing professional tennis and being in the spotlight is going to be detrimental to mental health surely the answer is to stop? Take a break?
    Isn't that the same as telling a footballer to stop playing because the racism of the crowd is affecting their mental health? Surely the answer is a bit more nuanced than that.

    Edited by JamboWayOh at 16:09:22 01-06-2021
  • JYM60 1 Jun 2021 16:16:49 19,042 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    Load_2.0 wrote:
    Lol she isn't chained to the posts of centre court.

    She will have the BEST sports psychologists speaking to her daily. It's not like she has to wait for a free NHS appointment.

    If the stress and anxiety of playing professional tennis and being in the spotlight is going to be detrimental to mental health surely the answer is to stop? Take a break?
    Isn't that the same as telling a footballer to stop playing because the racism of the crowd is affecting their mental health? Surely the answer is a bit more nuanced than that.
    lol what?
  • Load_2.0 1 Jun 2021 16:20:24 33,522 posts
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    It's nothing like that.
  • Dougs 1 Jun 2021 16:44:01 100,274 posts
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    As I say, we don't know what her health problems are (specifically). She has in effect taken an enforced break because of the reaction or treatment as she sees it. There surely must be a compromise position (and we don't know if that's was offered, maybe it was). Maybe we're only getting one side of the story but it seems very harsh to me.
  • RGeefe 1 Jun 2021 16:44:38 2,351 posts
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    Forbes has her at $37 million. She never has to work again and if she wants to play tennis then just start her own club.

    I'm not going to play mental health top trumps but I am very aware of the poor state of services and its impact on people I know. If she wants to do something about it - talk to the ATP or just walk away from the sport and set up something to help others with anxiety.

    So I do have sympathy for people with mental health issues but there's a scale and it tips heavily in favour of people who are living on the fucking breadline and can't access CAHMS/ Emergency support and whose deaths won't make a blind bit of difference, over an actual fucking millionaire who doesn't like doing interviews after they've lost.
  • Armoured_Bear 1 Jun 2021 16:47:41 31,138 posts
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    RGeefe wrote:
    Forbes has her at $37 million. She never has to work again and if she wants to play tennis then just start her own club.

    I'm not going to play mental health top trumps but I am very aware of the poor state of services and its impact on people I know. If she wants to do something about it - talk to the ATP or just walk away from the sport and set up something to help others with anxiety.

    So I do have sympathy for people with mental health issues but there's a scale and it tips heavily in favour of people who are living on the fucking breadline and can't access CAHMS/ Emergency support and whose deaths won't make a blind bit of difference, over an actual fucking millionaire who doesn't like doing interviews after they've lost.
    Well done, if you have some cash then your mental health no longer matters because poor people exist. Go ahead and jump off a bridge Naomi, you're a millionaire.
  • Load_2.0 1 Jun 2021 16:49:09 33,522 posts
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    That's definitely what's being said.
  • Mola_Ram 1 Jun 2021 23:23:14 26,052 posts
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    People with all the resources in the world still suffer from mental health issues. Sympathizing with that isn't a zero-sum game; you can say "damn, I hope she gets some help" without adding "oh and by the way, fuck poor people".

    And there's such a stigma against in professional sports, what with our expectations that players need to be "mentally tough". Do we think that because they keep it together on the field, they should be fine afterwards? It's not always the case, and those stigmas encourage people to hide and suppress their problems, which could make them worse.

    Anyway, a break could probably help. Ash Barty basically took all of last year off (because of Covid tbf), and she's playing better than ever. I hope Osaka does what she needs to do.
  • Mola_Ram 1 Jun 2021 23:24:12 26,052 posts
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    Oh and by the way, fuck poor people.
  • dominalien 2 Jun 2021 06:42:36 10,661 posts
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    I find it interesting how many feel like one of the sides in this matter must be 100% right and the other must be the devil's spawn. There really is a middle ground. In most things, to boot.

    Tournament organisers spend a lot of money and expect things in return. Players take part knowing what their benefits are and what their obligations are. A tournament organiser simply cannot say "you're saying you're not feeling too well today, yeah, ok, we'll just pretend your contract doesn't say you need to appear before the press". This opens the door for everyone to do the same with all their obligations any day they don't feel like fulfilling them.

    Also, it's not the tournament organisers' obligation to care for players' mental well being. Players should and in this case totally can do that on their own. If someone doesn't like the spotlight they may choose not to participate in an activity or perhaps renegotiate the deal so it doesn't include interviews, possibly for reduced remuneration. Though I can totally see the organisers not wanting to do that and that would be OK as well. Having special rules for some people is a can of worms I can totally see them not wanting to open.

    I realise when one has depression even doing an interview can seem like the most difficult thing you'd ever had to do in your life. And it's totally conceivable at this point in time this was the only thing she could do to keep her sanity. That absolutely doesn't mean the RG or WTA people should just roll over and let her do whatever she wanted without consequence.

    Edited by dominalien at 06:47:41 02-06-2021
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