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Dirtbox 22 Sep 2009 12:27:54 92,595 posts
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Deleted user 22 September 2009 13:18:45

I brought up sandboxes, and I'll do it again in an instant! Mwhah. Mwhahahah!

Anyway, I don't consider Eve a sandbox *shrug* I guess it's because I don't consider any MMO a sandbox, despite them all being so in certain ways.

Ginger, I'm an Eve subscriber (to respond to that earlier accusation!). It's certainly influenced by Elite (I think they even mentioned it in an interview) but it doesn't 'scratch the itch' as it were.

Ginger 22 Sep 2009 13:23:16 7,256 posts
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WJF wrote:
Ginger, I'm an Eve subscriber (to respond to that earlier accusation!). It's certainly influenced by Elite (I think they even mentioned it in an interview) but it doesn't 'scratch the itch' as it were.

Not an accusation, but a genuine question - I struggle to think of a game that is more sandbox than eve tbh - sure, it's a sandbox with rules but it's the most player controlled game around as far as I can tell.

Dirtbox 22 Sep 2009 13:29:41 92,595 posts
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Deleted user 22 September 2009 13:54:48

I still think my 'role playing game in space' is a better description for Eve. You don't have the freedom to suddenly decide 'F-it, I'm sick of shooting people! I'm going to buy a mining probe and sell the precious jewels that I get on the market'

(Ah, but you can!)

No, you can't. Because in Eve this would amount to --wait 30 days for skills to be high enough to scrape a profit---wait another 30 so you can fly a ship able to mine enough without forcing you to shuttle back and forth --- mine the least expensive minerals because you need to go to null sec for the good stuff and your alliance doesn't hold sov over any null sec systems.

In Elite, this process takes 2 secs and you're off (Part-ex ship, buy equipment, get launch clearance). That's why Eve doesn't feel like a sandbox to me.

Dirtbox 22 Sep 2009 13:56:03 92,595 posts
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Deleted user 22 September 2009 13:56:26

Dirtbox wrote:
Also, I really, really don't want Elite to be an MMO.

+1

WrongShui 22 Sep 2009 14:03:57 6,858 posts
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I'd settle for an MMO if it was mind blowing awesome, to the extent I'd kill my mate if logged into my account and borrowed some credits without asking.

But if they can't make it friend killingly awesome they should stick to single player.

DodgyPast 22 Sep 2009 14:04:34 9,353 posts
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WJF wrote:(Ah, but you can!)

No, you can't. Because in Eve this would amount to --wait 30 days for skills to be high enough to scrape a profit---wait another 30 so you can fly a ship able to mine enough without forcing you to shuttle back and forth --- mine the least expensive minerals because you need to go to null sec for the good stuff and your alliance doesn't hold sov over any null sec systems.

Osprey + wormholes = profit, join the eurogamer channel sometime.

Though I don't get the 'mining' thing at all, got as far as a retriever with an alt and thought fuck it and headed into T2 invention / T3 Reverse Engineering ( which is a hideous skill sink )

I think it depends on what your Elite ich was, I loved it because it felt more like a sandbox at the time than anything I could have imagined and when I played I had dreams of what it would be like if all the other pilots and traders were real people.

I do agree though that they are different in many ways and the whole space bastard thing doesn't really fit with what Elite was. In that way Eve is a very different game and Elite as an MMO would probably suffer in comparison.

spindizzy 22 Sep 2009 14:28:28 7,755 posts
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Am I the only one here who slightly sneered at people who played WoW 'in character' but would completely lose himself in an Elite MMO?

Deleted user 22 September 2009 14:40:40

/sneers

Deleted user 22 September 2009 14:42:02

WJF wrote:

Dirtbox wrote:
Also, I really, really don't want Elite to be an MMO.

+1

And here - but I think it's inevitable that it would be an MMO if it was made, and that it would fail.

FWB 22 Sep 2009 14:47:59 56,369 posts
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I haven't fired a single shot since I've been back in Eve and yet not only am I enjoying it but I'm causing loads of death and destruction.

DodgyPast wrote:
FWB has even found a darker side profiteering from other people's wars.

I get a slight twitch of guilt, but that's easily comforted by hard cold cash. Plus I see it as just providing info. What the people do with it is none of my business.

haowan 22 Sep 2009 15:46:34 7,385 posts
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if e4 is multiplayer i'll personally go pop a cap in braben's fat ass

Ginger 22 Sep 2009 15:53:37 7,256 posts
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haowan wrote:
if e4 is multiplayer i'll personally go pop a cap in braben's fat ass

The thing is, why would he NOT make it an MMO - far more money to be made from ongoing subscriptions than game sales.

haowan 22 Sep 2009 16:39:16 7,385 posts
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Ginger wrote:

haowan wrote:
if e4 is multiplayer i'll personally go pop a cap in braben's fat ass
The thing is, why would he NOT make it an MMO - far more money to be made from ongoing subscriptions than game sales.

not so interested in the wherefore

haowan 22 Sep 2009 16:42:10 7,385 posts
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but if you are then my first thought would be 'why go up against Eve?'

Dirtbox 22 Sep 2009 16:53:25 92,595 posts
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FWB 22 Sep 2009 16:56:15 56,369 posts
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You don't need another Eve. The only thing that would draw me into Elite 4 is if I can land on planets, get out and explore them with a BFG9000. That will eventually come to Eve someday.

Eve has space combat sown up as far as I"m concerned. I can't see how it can be improved on atm.

Dirtbox 22 Sep 2009 17:00:32 92,595 posts
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Deleted user 22 September 2009 17:03:17

Ginger wrote:

Dirtbox wrote:
Elite was about dogfighting, not selecting your enemy and clicking attack.
And there was me thinking that Elite was about the trading as well as everything else - if you want a dogfighter then buy a dogfighter, not a sandbox

Actually, I agree with DB on that one. It wasn't perhaps focused solely on dogfighting content-wise but it's certainly what made Elite *fun*. The other aspects were nice to dabble in from time to time just for the heck of it, but all became tedious after a few hours (at most)

So yes, Elite was definitely about dogfighting for me.

/fonly remembers seeking out Fuedal planets and hoping to end up in Witch space with each jump

FWB 22 Sep 2009 17:04:27 56,369 posts
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There is more to it... tackling, jamming, remote repairing, maintaining distance, planning your escape route....

It's definitely more of a RTS than anything else, but that's what space combat is.

Or what I would imagine it to be. A la Star Trek. But I do understand where you're coming from.

pauleyc 22 Sep 2009 17:16:04 4,548 posts
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FWB wrote:
Eve has space combat sown up as far as I"m concerned. I can't see how it can be improved on atm.

First-person view.

I appreciate what Eve has to offer - played it for almost 2 years - but there is no comparison between viewing your ship from afar (damn camera drones) and climbing into a cockpit. Plus, "twitch" combat resolved through a player's real skill is a bit more satisfying than rolling dice behind the scenes.

Atmospheric flight, procedurally generated planets, dogfights (albeit preferably without strict Newtonian physics) - this is what I'd expect from E4. A single-player game would be involving but make this into an MMO with a real player-controlled market and you could have a long-term winner.

haowan 22 Sep 2009 17:18:33 7,385 posts
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I'd be interested in a more dogfighty sci fi game, like Elite but based on a single planet perhaps - that way you get the atmo combat which isn't as sterile and hard to explain away as a dogfight as space combat, which in the event, let's face it, would largely be "target that thing, fire lasers, good thing our range was farther than theirs and our shields held out longer"

Like a steampunk / zeppelin / flying city melded context maybe, or a far future where tech has regressed from spaceflight back to atmo... dunno I just think planetary flight lends itself to dogfighting more. The trade aspect can be framed in pretty much any context (I once envisaged a 2D platformer where you trade between towns, and as you progress you can buy better hiking equipment or whatever that let you scale the hills faster or maybe get through underground shortcuts easier using mining or combat...), but actual aerial dogfighting works best in a volume that isn't infinite in every direction, imo.

edit: whoah great minds pauleyc

pauleyc 22 Sep 2009 17:23:01 4,548 posts
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I think this is one more area where I wouldn't mind Lucasarts milking the Star Wars license - make a game similar to X-Wing Alliance but with trading. And Corellian transports.

Metalfish 22 Sep 2009 17:23:53 9,191 posts
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Back when I was part of the freelancer community there were plenty of people with a real hard on for the idea of Newtonian physics in the game. It'd be horrible.

FWB 22 Sep 2009 17:25:50 56,369 posts
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Dogfighting has an appeal, but it's not what I'd imagine space combat (in reality) to be.

To keep it interesting you'd have to cut out a lot of the "tech" - no weapons firing from km out for example - and apply gravity.

Dirtbox 22 Sep 2009 17:32:52 92,595 posts
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Metalfish 22 Sep 2009 17:34:37 9,191 posts
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Yeah, give me a nippy little fighter to harass the tossers in battleships any day.

/Tie fighter memories.

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