Snippets of Overheard Conversations Thread Page 30

  • Armoured_Bear 12 Apr 2018 10:20:30 24,065 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:
    @Salaman The cost's prohibitive in the UK. A huge number of bridges, tunnels and stations would need to be rebuilt to accommodate the extra height.

    Edit: Though as you say, it isn't a stupid question per se. It's been looked at seriously on a number of occasions and double-decker trains are common in some countries.
    Thatís a crock of shite, standard UK excuses.
    Switzerland uses double decker trains everywhere and as an Alpine country, the number of tunnels is mental.

    Quite simple: you invest in infrastructure for the long term.
  • Armoured_Bear 12 Apr 2018 10:21:29 24,065 posts
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    DaM wrote:
    Some people say I look French or Spanish, but no - I done the DNA tests, innit, and I'm 100% white.
    Thatís coz youíre Scottish and not as pale as a bottle of milk.
  • thelzdking 12 Apr 2018 10:32:26 8,510 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Rogueywon wrote:
    @Salaman The cost's prohibitive in the UK. A huge number of bridges, tunnels and stations would need to be rebuilt to accommodate the extra height.

    Edit: Though as you say, it isn't a stupid question per se. It's been looked at seriously on a number of occasions and double-decker trains are common in some countries.
    Thatís a crock of shite, standard UK excuses.
    Switzerland uses double decker trains everywhere and as an Alpine country, the number of tunnels is mental.

    Quite simple: you invest in infrastructure for the long term.
    True, but long-term thinking is quite unfashionable in the UK. It's a big problem TBF.
  • RyanDS 12 Apr 2018 10:38:06 12,047 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Rogueywon wrote:
    @Salaman The cost's prohibitive in the UK. A huge number of bridges, tunnels and stations would need to be rebuilt to accommodate the extra height.

    Edit: Though as you say, it isn't a stupid question per se. It's been looked at seriously on a number of occasions and double-decker trains are common in some countries.
    Thatís a crock of shite, standard UK excuses.
    Switzerland uses double decker trains everywhere and as an Alpine country, the number of tunnels is mental.

    Quite simple: you invest in infrastructure for the long term.
    Quite. I really donít get why the UK and USA always think that things are impossible when everywhere else does it.

    See also the fucking ridiculous archaic imperial measurement clusterfuck.
  • brokenkey 12 Apr 2018 10:52:47 9,844 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Rogueywon wrote:
    @Salaman The cost's prohibitive in the UK. A huge number of bridges, tunnels and stations would need to be rebuilt to accommodate the extra height.

    Edit: Though as you say, it isn't a stupid question per se. It's been looked at seriously on a number of occasions and double-decker trains are common in some countries.
    Thatís a crock of shite, standard UK excuses.
    Switzerland uses double decker trains everywhere and as an Alpine country, the number of tunnels is mental.

    Quite simple: you invest in infrastructure for the long term.
    You have to widen the tracks as well, as placing them further apart from each other (and in turn support wider trains). UK rails are notoriously narrow compared to the rest of the world. Simply, you'd have to rebuild the network from scratch.

    Actually that might be a load of bollox. I'm not a train spotter.

    Edited by brokenkey at 10:55:59 12-04-2018
  • anephric 12 Apr 2018 11:37:14 2,985 posts
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    No, that's roughly true. Just the cost of upgrading some lines (the GNGE) to accommodate more freight at the behest of the ORR has been massively expensive and is the cause of massive complaints from people living next to the railway.

    The problem with the UK is that an awful lot of people live right on top of railway lines because Railtrack/Network Rail have sold off anything that wasn't nailed down to keep money in the coffers. The most recent land sale is another brilliant exercise in short-termism and will cause no end of problems.
  • imamazed 12 Apr 2018 13:03:29 6,329 posts
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    So what you're all saying is... It's much more complicated than ecosse thinks it is.
  • Alastair 12 Apr 2018 13:23:07 22,460 posts
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    We are world leaders at short-termism.
    I suspect the EU have been holding us back. After Brexit we can forge ahead at being the most short termist nation on the planet!!
  • senso-ji 12 Apr 2018 13:28:13 8,862 posts
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    When I was in Canada last year, the train I took from Toronto to Niagara Falls had three levels. And it stopped inside stations, went through tunnels, etc.

    Get the right the right engineers and the right government backing, and you get problems solved.
  • Armoured_Bear 12 Apr 2018 13:58:03 24,065 posts
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    Meanwhile, the Swiss are going to build an underground rail network spanning the whole country to handle freight.
  • anephric 12 Apr 2018 14:29:56 2,985 posts
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    Funnily enough, I think there's a bit more money swishing around the Swiss coffers than the UK.

    If it's not in the South East or pointing in that direction, there's no funding for it.
  • Fake_Blood 12 Apr 2018 14:33:42 8,947 posts
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    What the hell do they need to transport in la swiss? A bit of revolting chocolate and some quite excellent cheese?
  • thelzdking 12 Apr 2018 14:47:32 8,510 posts
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    Cuckoo clocks and yodellers?
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 12 Apr 2018 15:29:45 4,100 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Rogueywon wrote:
    @Salaman The cost's prohibitive in the UK. A huge number of bridges, tunnels and stations would need to be rebuilt to accommodate the extra height.

    Edit: Though as you say, it isn't a stupid question per se. It's been looked at seriously on a number of occasions and double-decker trains are common in some countries.
    Thatís a crock of shite, standard UK excuses.
    Switzerland uses double decker trains everywhere and as an Alpine country, the number of tunnels is mental.

    Quite simple: you invest in infrastructure for the long term.
    I've no idea why you've started being so aggressive every time you respond to one of my posts...

    The UK's problem here is not a recent one. We were the first country in the world to build a major rail network. Many of our civil structures - bridges, tunnels, stations, date from the 19th century. The nature of our rail industry at the time - which had many competing companies building lines with their own standards - resulted in a very fragmented network. Since these bridges, tunnels and so on were built, other things have been built over and around them which means that, in many cases, the costs of remodelling them are now very high and significant compensation would need to be paid to third parties (and in some cases, homes would need to be demolished).

    Other countries built their networks later and had the benefit of learning from the UK's mistakes. The Swiss Railway was built from the outset with a common set of gauge requirements in mind.

    It would, of course, be better if we had a railway with Swiss standards. The problem is that getting from where we are now to where we would need to be would involve truly massive costs (likely in the high-tens to hundreds of billions) which would have wider economic consequences, in terms of higher taxation/borrowing, and/or cuts to other parts of public expenditure.
  • Zomoniac 12 Apr 2018 15:35:17 9,736 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    What the hell do they need to transport in la swiss? A bit of revolting chocolate and some quite excellent cheese?
    Bars of Nazi gold.
  • PazJohnMitch 12 Apr 2018 15:36:42 13,868 posts
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    Alastair wrote:
    We are world leaders at short-termism.
    I suspect the EU have been holding us back. After Brexit we can forge ahead at being the most short termist nation on the planet!!
    My Chinese wife argues that having a single party government is the only way to ever make successful future plans.
  • PazJohnMitch 12 Apr 2018 15:37:53 13,868 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    What the hell do they need to transport in la swiss? A bit of revolting chocolate and some quite excellent cheese?
    Hang on a minute their chocolate is pretty good.
  • Tricky 12 Apr 2018 15:56:52 4,865 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    What the hell do they need to transport in la swiss? A bit of revolting chocolate and some quite excellent cheese?
    Shitloads of Nespresso pods.
  • Graxlar_v3 12 Apr 2018 16:10:00 4,078 posts
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    "OMG... I am on google, if you search my name i am 1,2 and 3 on google. They have a picture of me in my bikini..." i stopped listening after this as i went to google her name.

    edit: for clarity, i didn't really google them because i don't actually know her name outside of loud one at work.

    Edited by Graxlar_v3 at 16:11:06 12-04-2018
  • Armoured_Bear 12 Apr 2018 17:15:34 24,065 posts
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    @Rogueywon
    I'm not always aggressive with you, apologies if it's came across that way.
    I've heard so many times from Brits the excuses about how there's no space, we have lots of hills, tunnels, it's an island etc.
    Your explanation I'm sure is correct but it's just more excuses used to justify lack of long term planning and investment.
  • anephric 12 Apr 2018 17:22:18 2,985 posts
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    We still had paraffin lamps on signals in some parts of the UK (*cough Scotland*) until only a.couple of years ago (there might still be some out there) so to talk about some shining new plan to have Berne gauge like the rest of civilised Europe might need a bit of perspective.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 12 Apr 2018 18:31:06 4,100 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    @Rogueywon
    I'm not always aggressive with you, apologies if it's came across that way.
    I've heard so many times from Brits the excuses about how there's no space, we have lots of hills, tunnels, it's an island etc.
    Your explanation I'm sure is correct but it's just more excuses used to justify lack of long term planning and investment.
    Some might describe a cost of £100bn or more as "a damned good reason" rather than "an excuse".

    Besides, I think you are completely missing the mark on long-term planning and investment. Disclaimer: I work in infrastructure planning - I'm not a rail specialist, but I need to know a fair amount about the sector to do my job. We're talking about whether it is worth making the UK railway compatible with double-decker trains or not. Double-decker trains improve your per-train passenger capacity, which is useful on overcrowded lines. But they also require longer station dwell-times. The UK railway currently runs at maximum peak-time capacity on many routes - we jam in trains very tightly. Under those circumstances, longer dwell-times in stations means you can run fewer trains on the line in question. So you lose some of the capacity you've gained from going double-decker. Moreover, running fewer trains means you are going to have to make service-pattern sacrifices - so some stations are going to get a reduced service or lose their services altogether, which has a huge social impact.

    The issue of whether to go for double-decker trains has been done to death in the UK and the sensible, long-term decision is to avoid them. They represent a huge cost for only a marginal capacity increase and a number of wider disadvantages. Would it have been better if the UK railway had been built to accommodate them to begin with? Probably. The railway would have evolved differently if it had. But as with major airports, the UK went first on building a major rail network and got to make the mistakes that other countries learned from. Worth noting that when we didn't go first but rather learned from other countries - with the motorway network, where the US and Germany went first - we did much better.

    The UK rail network is much better than it gets credit for, given the job it has to do. It's in top rank worldwide in safety terms, its punctuality is middling and it makes very intensive use of its infrastructure. But it's still a very expensive mode of transport in terms of subsidy requirement (as rail is everywhere in the world) and spending on it needs to be carefully targeted for maximum effect.

    There is a certain kind of politician that likes to rank about "a lack of long term planning and investment" - usually one who is desperate for attention and has some madcap infrastructure scheme they want the taxpayer to cough up tens of billions for. I will just say the words "Boris Island" and leave it there.
  • mrpon 12 Apr 2018 18:45:59 34,643 posts
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    Sorry I overheard it ;)

    I was more amused at the timing of said phrase.

    We'd just gone through a tunnel.
  • Barrel_Trollz 14 Apr 2018 01:32:40 772 posts
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    "Everybody dated everybody. If one of them got an STD they all got it. They're all brothers and sisters now"


    ....?!?!?!
  • Salaman 14 Apr 2018 08:09:34 23,231 posts
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    Barrel_Trollz wrote:
    "Everybody dated everybody. If one of them got an STD they all got it. They're all brothers and sisters now"


    ....?!?!?!
    Eskimo
  • Load_2.0 14 Apr 2018 10:52:35 27,788 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:
    The UK rail network is much better than it gets credit for
    It isn't.

    The rest was a long post just to say nothing can be done, it's too expensive.
  • thelzdking 14 Apr 2018 10:56:15 8,510 posts
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    Load_2.0 wrote:
    Rogueywon wrote:
    The UK rail network is much better than it gets credit for
    It isn't.

    The rest was a long post just to say nothing can be done, it's too expensive.
    I don't know where Roguey lives but the trains here are fucking awful.
  • PazJohnMitch 14 Apr 2018 13:09:45 13,868 posts
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    I have used trains in Spain, Belgium, China and the U.K.

    The Belgium ones were a bit ropey but the Chinese ones in particular were substantially better than those in the U.K.
  • thelzdking 14 Apr 2018 13:14:54 8,510 posts
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    When I went on French and Dutch trains I felt like I was rich and glamourous.
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