Following Star Trek Page 189

  • Deleted user 7 January 2019 12:31:19
    CosmicFuzz wrote:

    As for Picard, I'll be amazed if it's not a one season only "event" type show. Can't see Stewart doing it every week for another seven years or whatever.
    I think one series would be the best thing personally, but I wouldn't be so sure. I think his film career is on the wind down, he doesn't seem to be getting a lot of work in that regard, so I think he could do 3-4 years (barely any genre shows make it to 5-7 series these days anyway, even the mighty BSG).

    Edited by Jyzzy-Z at 12:31:45 07-01-2019
  • CosmicFuzz 7 Jan 2019 12:34:41 32,585 posts
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    Personally, I look at recent sci fi like Interstellar and Arrival and I think that's what I'd like modern Trek to be. Those films showed you can do a relatively slow paced (with some action) story about scientific ideas (time dilation, black holes, learning to speak an alien language) and it's still gripping sci fi.

    I'd certainly rather Trek move towards that than try and ape Star Wars as the JJ films have done.
  • CosmicFuzz 7 Jan 2019 12:35:55 32,585 posts
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    Jyzzy-Z wrote:
    CosmicFuzz wrote:

    As for Picard, I'll be amazed if it's not a one season only "event" type show. Can't see Stewart doing it every week for another seven years or whatever.
    I think one series would be the best thing personally, but I wouldn't be so sure. I think his film career is on the wind down, he doesn't seem to be getting a lot of work in that regard, so I think he could do 3-4 years (barely any genre shows make it to 5-7 series these days anyway, even the mighty BSG).
    Yeah maybe. I agree that a one off season would be fantastic - they could really plan out a good story and build to it. I'm just not sure how much work he actually wants anymore, he's just about 80 now!
  • Deleted user 7 January 2019 12:39:03
    @CosmicFuzz I agree with the sentiment, but I think those two films were too far in that direction for Star Trek.

    More of something like Calypso or that decent episode with Harry Mudd. Doesn't need to be plodding with everyone sat around a table talking bollocks about the finer points of the prime directive for 45 minutes. Just decent sci-fi ideas in this modern aesthetic.

    It veered too far into science fantasy for me for the majority of the first series. That spore drive thing was just complete bollocks and is akin to The Force or Gandalf's magic wand.

    So yeah, having watched the S2 trailer and seeing more of that type of guff means I'm probably not going to be watching it.
  • JoelStinty 7 Jan 2019 12:42:06 8,246 posts
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    I think trek in general as always struggled a little bit with perception. I guess it why we get a few duffs here and there. I like both (old trek and discovery), but I do wonder whether I'm just a fanboy. But then I didn't like Beyond at all. I was surprised how angry I got about that film but that played to certain audiences that I think prefer TOS and away mission treks. For all the talk how different Discovery is to TNG etc, TNG must have felt the same to people who grew up with TOS. Also the nature of modern tv series it's a lot harder to have episodes where you can just focus on one different ethical debate an episode like TNG did.
  • CosmicFuzz 7 Jan 2019 12:53:56 32,585 posts
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    :D

    Sorry bad but I just don't agree with your logic leaps there! I don't see where Discovery failed to bring in the figures they wanted (what figures DID they want exactly?), and CBS financing multiple new (additional) Treks being somehow evidence of Trek failing makes no sense.

    With regards to the Shorts, it's almost certainly just a rights issue thing. Probably outside the original contract and linking Netflix's failure to (so far) air them with a) Discovery having poor viewing figures and b) Netflix paying substantially less for season 2 just doesn't work.
  • Rivuzu 7 Jan 2019 15:27:04 18,222 posts
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    Jyzzy-Z wrote:
    Rivuzu wrote:
    I liked Discovery.

    I genuinely dislike older Star Trek.

    Make of that what you will.

    /part of the problem
    Part of the solution really. The show/series needs new viewers. Older Trek is definitely not for everyone.

    I do think there's a definite middle ground here somewhere and it would make for much better shows and films.
    I realise I'm the same bucket of Star Trek viewer as those who think Phantom Menace is the best Star Wars movie mind you, but I really didn't think Discovery was all that bad.

    If they went with the old formula, they'd have had less viewers because it's not sexy and jazzed up enough for 2018.
  • CosmicFuzz 7 Jan 2019 18:47:27 32,585 posts
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    @bad09 I agree that the Picard show is definitely aimed at old school Trek fans like us. If that means we get old fans and new fans being catered for, that's great imo.

    I liked Discovery a lot, it's not perfect and it's not Trek in a lot of ways. I thought it was a far better take than the recent movies however, and from what I've read (not seen them myself yet) the Short Treks seem to be swaying closer to classic Trek a little more.

    I do wish Netflix would air the shorts, and I wonder exactly why they wouldn't. Hopefully they'll stick all four up the week before the new season starts or something.

    Honestly though, I think Discovery is doing just fine.
  • RichDC 8 Jan 2019 13:49:32 8,580 posts
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    Good news Star Trek fans: The Orville is back on Thursday! ;)
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 8 Jan 2019 13:52:45 11,263 posts
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    Discovery doesn't have the warmth of the older series but it's fine. Im interest to see how it hangs together once it lacks the drive of the war for its central narrative. They didn't flesh out a particularly large central cast last season.
  • Razz 10 Jan 2019 18:10:43 618 posts
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    I've that there will be up to 9 star trek shows running concurrently in 2020. At least one of them has to have that old school vibe you're looking for.

    I'm a little surprised the networks are spamming star trek again, it worked out pretty badly last time.
  • BinaryBob101 10 Jan 2019 18:21:24 27,083 posts
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    Two of em are animated. Lower Decks is a comedy. Sounds dreadful.
  • fontgeeksogood 10 Jan 2019 18:53:38 7,427 posts
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    Christ, the thought of Lower Decks turns my stomach
  • fontgeeksogood 10 Jan 2019 18:54:05 7,427 posts
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    Pretty sure he's a back to front wiper
  • DrStrangelove 10 Jan 2019 21:37:15 14,670 posts
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    Meh, I don't know. I'd appreciate a new Trek series that's somewhat in the spirit of old Trek, but at the same time somewhat in the present age.

    Discovery is too modern for me, with all that grim and dark shit where you can't trust anyone, and that anti-episodic structure where episodes don't stand for themselves but are mostly fractions of some ongoing larger story that is too stupid and chaotic to make the parts worthwhile. It's just too far removed from Star Trek, and Michael's stupid speech in the end of season 1 doesn't change that. /waves walking stick

    As I'm still on my DS9 re-watch, I can only commend it for how well it mixed episodic episodes with overarching storylines. That's how you do it.

    At the same time, I don't want some retro shit that tries too hard to ape original Trek and will most probably fail. That's what I expect from "Picard". I mean, I love Picard, but Stewart is like 100 years old now and bringing him back only shows how desperate it is. Look, Picard is back! And we'll just call the show "Picard". Like, it can't be oldschool Trek without completely relying on a captain from 30 years ago. Not a good sign. I wouldn't have appreciated a retro Trek series years ago with an 80 years old Shatner, and I don't expect any good from this.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 21:50:09 10-01-2019
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 10 Jan 2019 21:43:06 11,263 posts
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    As much as I loved my TNG and DS9 rewatches (currently midway through VOY) I can't imagine a show like them feeling credible these days.

    I would like some more conceptual Star Trek The Motion Picture type stuff. Agree that going a bit more Arrival like would be very interesting for a spin-off.
  • jrmat 11 Jan 2019 07:14:47 119 posts
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    @DrStrangelove You read my mind on everything Star Trek right.

    Am rewatching season 2 of TNG. Some good, some not so good but I prefer almost all of it to the entire series of discovery.
  • RyanDS 11 Jan 2019 08:46:41 12,909 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    As much as I loved my TNG and DS9 rewatches (currently midway through VOY) I can't imagine a show like them feeling credible these days.

    I don't know. File a little of the humour off of the Orville and you have a credible TNG series 8 that is successful.
  • CosmicFuzz 11 Jan 2019 09:11:35 32,585 posts
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    Personally, I agree that putting out a show like TNG nowadays just wouldn't work. The Orville tries to ape it to an extent but even that realises you need to put stupid humour in it to keep it relevent to modern audiences. Beyond die hard Trekkies, I'm not convinced it would be watched.

    I think there is a way to do modern thoughtful sci-fi in the style of TNG etc that allows for updating without going constant action/grimdark. Stuff like Arrival/Interstellar IMO show that.

    From what I've read of season 2, the premiere does seem to address a lot of issues that folk had with season 1. Darkness is gone, more of a sense of family, feels more like Starfleet of old, interesting sci fi mystery to solve, etc etc. As much as I enjoyed season 1, I'm really looking forward to seeing how it's evolved in season 2.
  • RGeefe 11 Jan 2019 10:02:04 448 posts
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    I have absolutely no problem with the modernisation of Star Trek. my issue is whether it's well written and the characters are engaging. Discovery's first series massively suffered on both counts. for every brilliant character like Saru and Lorca, there was 20 minutes of navel gazing from Michael.

    essentially, its biggest failing was that it just wasn't engaging. the mid-series flip to a completely different storyline was weird, the Klingon war didn't feel like a war and the entire Spore drive was ridiculous.

    Star Trek is dead simple to do - for every four episodes you have 1 silly, 1 action, 1 science, 1 morality/ theoretical. make sure it's well written and the baddies are believable. done.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 14 Jan 2019 00:13:23 11,263 posts
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    Voyager update: Mrs Maybe hates Neelix so much that she doesn't like me having the show on when she's around.

    The cause is mainly the saga of his jealously over Paris and Kes.

    I'd forgotten Paris even had a thing for her. Neelix is a massive jerk about it.
  • prettyvacant 14 Jan 2019 04:16:21 275 posts
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    She might enjoy this then link
  • Dirtbox 14 Jan 2019 04:23:43 91,204 posts
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    Neelix is ace, they reel him in after the second season and he's meant to be annoying. Once you get around that you can appreciate him for the tuvok troll he is.
  • thelzdking 14 Jan 2019 05:46:56 9,633 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Neelix is ace, they reel him in after the second season and he's meant to be annoying. Once you get around that you can appreciate him for the tuvok troll he is.
    Yup! Whereas Paris is an arrogant little cunt for a lot of early Voyager.
  • Deleted user 14 January 2019 05:50:29
    They're all awful characters. Neelix was the worst
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 14 Jan 2019 06:49:16 11,263 posts
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    I'm appreciating Janeway a lot more this time around. Not quite as distant or cold as I'd remembered.
  • CosmicFuzz 14 Jan 2019 11:44:24 32,585 posts
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    Looks like new Trek movie has been shelved. Chris Pine/Hemsworth left over salary disputes and director has joined Game of Thrones prequel show to direct pilot/produce.

    To be honest I wasn't a massive fan of the Kelvin films. The first one was a decent reboot but the second double-downed on the parts I didn't like, namely non-stop action. Third was ok but just pretty boring.

    Wonder if we're more likely to get Tarantino's film now with a new cast. I'd love to see what he did with it.

    Edited by CosmicFuzz at 11:45:23 14-01-2019
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 14 Jan 2019 11:47:56 11,263 posts
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    But nothing says Trek like rapid jump cuts set to the Beastie Boys!!
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