Following Star Trek Page 210

  • DrStrangelove 14 Apr 2019 22:55:15 14,093 posts
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    jrmat wrote:
    DrStrangelove wrote:
    In series 1 they had her face frozen without expression almost all the time. In series 2 they made her cry almost all the time. I don't think they really have a concept for this character.
    Quite. I did not think it's SMGs fault as it is with the writers. Lorca and Pike have been the only decent characters. The others are either in the background or clichés.
    I think it's a bit of both. Of course Martin-Green can't be blamed for the writers' aimlessness. On the other hand, she's also not a great actor. Good acting can to some extent make up for bad writing, but that's not happening here.

    For example, take early TNG. The creators and writers had no fucking idea what they were doing, they had some very vague ideas about who those characters are but it was all over the place. A good actor like Brent Spiner somehow managed to save this shit show, a bad actor like Gates McFadden didn't really help at all.

    I'm not saying SMG is terrible, but the acting really isn't great. I think she was so-so at that frozen/distanced stuff but I think she's just bad at this crying emo stuff. It's just so overinflated, artificial and forced. It just doesn't feel genuine at all.

    Lorca wasn't even such a great character in my opinion, but Jason Isaac's acting made a difference. I don't see any acting nearly on that level from anyone else on the show.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 22:57:14 14-04-2019
  • jrmat 15 Apr 2019 07:13:17 68 posts
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    Yep. She's definitely not in the same league as Isaacs or Spiner for that matter.
  • General_Martok 15 Apr 2019 09:35:56 625 posts
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    They could go all Fringe like...that would also be ok...without the hat wearing people.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 15 Apr 2019 12:28:51 10,239 posts
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    Not being as good an actor as Jason Isaacs is hardly the biggest crime.
  • Dirtbox 15 Apr 2019 13:12:35 91,097 posts
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    I can look past it. At this point it's a decent enough show and the writers and actors both still haven't managed to properly find their characters core. Hardly anything different to any other trek.
  • Bambot 18 Apr 2019 07:45:59 1,361 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    Is there only one of the shorts left to be addressed in this series?
    Two, no? The Harry Mudd one feels like it was just a novelty and not likely to be a plot point in the finale, and the one about the AI-controlled ship in the future, while thematically relevant to what's going on in the show, doesn't seem to have any direct connection as yet.
  • Bambot 18 Apr 2019 07:48:09 1,361 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    I can look past it. At this point it's a decent enough show and the writers and actors both still haven't managed to properly find their characters core. Hardly anything different to any other trek.
    Agree, although the fact that I've realised I don't really know any of the bridge crew's names or characters other than Saru, compared to everyone on TNG, is a bit disappointing two series in. I've enjoyed it immensely though.
  • Bambot 18 Apr 2019 07:52:15 1,361 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    She's turning into a bit of a Lana Lang. She was fine when she was a pariah but now we can't go five minutes without someone saying how amazing she is.

    Last night we got:

    - her adoptive parents turning up to tell her how amazing she is
    - her ship mates turning up to tell her how amazing she is
    - ash telling her how amazing she is
    - pike saying 'it was an honour serving with you all. You're all amazing. Especially you, you're the most amazing, Burnham'

    All within the space of like 20 minutes.
    That was a bit silly, agreed!

    Also, much as I've been enjoying it, I rolled my eyes HARD when early on in the episode it was made very clear just how little time they have to do an insane amount of prep before Not-Yet-The-Borg turns up (haha just to annoy you know who!) and rather than rush off to Get Shit Done all of the MOST important characters stood around to have an unnecessary chat. And when that was over and some of them finally rushed off to Get Shit Done, two of them stayed behind for even MORE totally unnecessary chats.

    FFS people, the Borg-Before-They-Were-The-Borg are coming!!!
  • Nazo 18 Apr 2019 10:09:48 978 posts
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    Not really sure what their plan was toward the Never-Going-To-Be-Borg. They see a bunch of ships coming so they decide to blow up Discovery. Then what? Do they expect Control to just give up because reasons? Presumably Enterprise then gets overwhelmed and destroyed and the not-actually-conscious-but-pretty-murderous Control is free to go off and not-really-assimilate everyone else.
    So all it seems to achieve is lose the 2 most advanced ships in the fleet.
  • Rodpad 19 Apr 2019 09:22:26 2,989 posts
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    What a finale. Everything tied up as the showrunners said it would be.

    Looking forward to season 3.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 19 Apr 2019 09:34:25 10,239 posts
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    Season 2 Finale

    That resolution where all the Enterprise crew swear never to mention Discovery or the battle ever again is such a pointless cop-out way of trying to stop this series impacting on the existing continuity.

    For a secret organisation that presumably has access to all manner of hitech experimental gear you'd think having about 30 ships would be enough for Control to take out Discovery and the Enterprise.

    I like that they've kept their options open for season three by focusing on the Enterprise crew rather than showing us exactly what happened to Discovery.

    I've enjoyed this season but it didn't really address any of the issues the first had.

    Pike was the showstealer for me and it'll be sad that this is possibly the last we'll see of him.
  • DarmokJalad 19 Apr 2019 16:36:18 63,689 posts
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    It's like nobody knows how to use a bit of rope, or even hell... a bloody bent stick to reach under and pull the fucking manual override lever. Peh.... Anyway all future ships need to be made out of that blast door.
  • RunningMan 19 Apr 2019 21:03:20 2,960 posts
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    I loved that, and the whole series. Do agree about the rope though :). Just really really want an enterprise series now.
  • M83J01P97 19 Apr 2019 21:12:54 7,606 posts
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    Not sure why they felt the need to write in a reason Discover and it's crew have never been mentioned in any Trek previously... I mean was that something a lot of people were getting their knickers in a twist over? I mean no one ever mentioned anything about Enterprise during the original Star Trek/Next Gen/DS9/Voyager...

    It will be interesting to see what they do with this time jump in Season 3 (if there is one?) and if events from Next Gen/DS9/Voyager will be mentioned.

    As much as I didn't want Control turning out to be a Borg origins story, I kind of felt like that would have given it more impact if it was now as well.
  • RGeefe 19 Apr 2019 21:35:10 311 posts
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    I rolled my eyes hard at the end but I get it.

    My gut feeling is there is a LOT of internal politics going on at CBS/ viacom and it'll be down to whether they get the rights to certain things. If they do then they've set themselves up nicely to just crack on with what we ended on.

    From what I can gather the show has been a critical success but hasn't pulled in the numbers needed to get US viewers on CBS Access. Coupled with Netflix really lowballing them on international rights fees they either have to go in hard and making it a prime time TV show - which means that the end is perfect as they can just carry on without needing back-story - OR that's it until the rights ownership is sorted and we get Picard to tie us over.

    Has this also killed the Section 31 spin off?
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 19 Apr 2019 21:41:54 10,239 posts
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    I suppose it is very traditionally Trek to have epic galaxy and life altering events never mentioned outside of the episode in which they take place. It's just not often they explicitly say that's what they're going to do.
  • Not-a-reviewer 19 Apr 2019 21:43:44 5,700 posts
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    Why would it kill off the spin off? Section 31 still exists.
  • Psychotext 19 Apr 2019 21:59:25 64,971 posts
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    DarmokJalad wrote:
    Anyway all future ships need to be made out of that blast door.
    Impressive bit of kit that!
  • jrmat 19 Apr 2019 22:50:51 68 posts
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    Not sure if I'm making this up but the deal was that any new star trek would be part of a different timeline and it has to be atleast 25% different.

    I liked how they tied the series together. And the production values. Everything else was garbage.
  • Scurrminator 19 Apr 2019 23:50:01 9,045 posts
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    The section 31 show is coming after Disco season 3. I am assuming that is so they can get Georgiou back to the past.
    Kurtzman has said Disco season 3 will reference past events (no Vulcan, Dominion War etc. ) but that stuff will be far in the past for the crew.
  • AcidSnake 20 Apr 2019 00:48:58 8,137 posts
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    So yeah. Glad to see a nice space battle and the time consuming speeches cut down a bit...

    Here comes the usual nitpicking as they buried a lot under all the spectacle:

    "Spock has been accused of murder but says he didn't do it!"
    "What?! That's it, run him through our lie detector right now!"
    -----------------
    "Hey, we lost a whole starship, tons of people and an Admiral in a skirmish with Klingons present."
    "Well, ask the people that were there what happened, at least twice, no need to doubt any of them though"

    So Burnham knows she's in for a one way trip because then her crystal dies and the crew valiantly choose to go with her. But wait, let's make 5 random stops through time first as apparently those don't count for the crystal...

    Control manifested itself in Leland and nowhere else? And was it using WiFi or something to control all the rest? Couldn't they just build a jamming device and knock out the fleet like that? And come to think of it, why didn't Control assimilate more humans like with that trap a few episodes ago?

    Plot wise what happened to Reno and her "Get out of the room, I'll expose the crystal and go time tripping in my mind" bit? Weren't there supposed to be some negative side effects?

    As for being alone in the battle, surely if Ash managed to reach the Klingons he could've stopped by some Starfleet outpost and given them a heads up? Or possibly even Spock's parents? Did everyone use the same subspace comm system?


    They have indeed left season 3 quite open and they can explore what they want plot wise...
    I'm still hoping we get Lorca back...
  • JoelStinty 20 Apr 2019 09:19:36 7,846 posts
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    Thought that was a good finale for what has been a messy show. Has some real highs and lows.

    Have a couple of issues/questions with the ending - they effectively taken control with them in the future (although i think the sphere data isn't on the ship any more? leland couldn't find it?) and with tv's ability to bring people back from the dead it seems that the same conflicts could play out again. Which i hope it doesn't really. The entire legacy of Star trek or most sci- fi is at its most stretched when it comes to time travel or mirror universes. Discovery has shown me enough that it can work as a show if it kept it simple. But as mentioned above it seems the writers have to skirt around internal politics at Trek HQ. Guess it does a pretty good job as a bad situation.

    If he did die, there was no real reason to go in the future, abeit everything was set in motion by then.

    But thought the ending hit the right beats, and was surprisingly emotional considering other characters haven't been wholly explored in the series so far. Loved the visuals of everything, but especially the time jumps.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 20 Apr 2019 09:39:12 10,239 posts
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    I wondered about Leland's fate too. If he died and Control was just him then why go to the future? If Control was all over the wifi as its control of the S31 ships would imply then how did Star Fleet eliminate it in the time between the battle and the interviews? Was whatever they did not an option to Discovery, the Admiral or Enterprise?

    Total aside - nice to see the Klingons looking more Klingon again.

    I wasn't fully opposed to the season 1 design as I've generally taken Discovery as being its own separate iteration of Trek and not worried about them having things like technology that outstrips TNG etc but I did get a flutter when I saw them looking more Mongol like that.
  • Nazo 20 Apr 2019 10:00:21 978 posts
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    It was very entertaining with all the pew pew punchy punchy stuff but it's a shame to see Trek turn into a turn-your-brain-off action show that doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.

    It's nice that all those hundreds of people involved with Discovery that aren't in any way subject to Starfleet regulations can be relied upon to keep quiet as well. Also, didn't the Klingon Chancellor secure her position by showing off Tyler's severed head? Wouldn't his sudden reappearance mess things up for her?

    Something about the plot that I don't get and I'm not sure was explained properly: the whole thing started because 7 signals appeared all at once causing a panic for some reason, then they started reappearing one at a time... so what caused the initial simultaneous signals?
  • JoelStinty 20 Apr 2019 10:36:11 7,846 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    DarmokJalad wrote:
    Anyway all future ships need to be made out of that blast door.
    Impressive bit of kit that!
    Don't know if this how it works, but come across this on resetera:

    For all of you wondering how Pike survived. it's simple and actually correct from a physics perspective. An explosion in an enclosed space would send it's pressure omni-directionally but... since there was a big hole on one side of that enclosed area the majority of the pressure would vent to and through that area. This is the theory behnd how both underwater demolitions and shaped charges work.

    but i don't whether that is enough to stop photon torpedo doing damage (though it does take out a large portion of enterprises disc, so it has taken it away from its impact point.

    Edited by JoelStinty at 10:37:26 20-04-2019
  • Psychotext 20 Apr 2019 11:52:57 64,971 posts
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    Except originally it was going to take out four decks, and the only thing that changed was that door. lol
  • BigOrkWaaagh 20 Apr 2019 12:21:12 8,667 posts
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    Well it still did take out a bunch of decks, we saw that there was half the saucer missing.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 20 Apr 2019 13:41:10 10,239 posts
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    No one even got to say "the needs of the many ..." either
  • Nemesis 20 Apr 2019 22:23:01 19,518 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    No one even got to say "the needs of the many ..." either
    They did in an earlier episode. Or a variation of it. Naturally I can’t remember the specifics.

    Enjoyed that last one. At least we know where all the budget went !
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 20 Apr 2019 23:42:16 10,239 posts
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    I wonder what the next season will be. The ending of this one implies Voyager meets Sliders/Doctor Who but would they want to get home after sending the sphere data to the future so that Control couldn't get it? I guess they would know that Control was defeated/turned off right after they left so could aim for that as their return point. Like a week after they left or whatever.

    Although all the other shorts were canon so we know the ship is abandoned at some point after jumping.

    Maybe this is actually the end of their story, I hope not though. The potential is there for some real boldly going
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