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@Akumer There's always been 'rogue reactionary element of Starfleet' storylines in Trek since Nic Meyer/TNG did it (after the reins were wrested from Roddenberry) and yeah, he hated it. He hated making Starfleet more naval and all the accoutrements that brought with it. There's only so far you can go with what Roddenberry wanted Trek to be in his final years, and only so interesting a big happy family in space can be. I'm really not digging Picard so far, essentially it's down to the quality of the writing more than the actual concept. It's pretty poor. |
Star Trek
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anephric 4,202 posts
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Registered 13 years ago -
Steve-Perry 1,512 posts
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Registered 7 months ago@anephric I get where they're going with the federation, and yeah, we've seen plenty of rogue elements in the past, usually tied to individuals, not the institution itself.
I just don't trust Kurtzman's artistic vision. He is not a good custodian of the franchise IMO. Nothing I've seen from him would suggest he really knows what Star Trek is about. The dudes who ran the 90s shows at least got it, even if they did run out of creative steam.
Picard is encouraging thus far. Shame you don't like it. I think Sir Pat is carrying it so far, though I do like some of the new characters. -
Duffking 16,610 posts
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Registered 14 years agoanephric wrote:There's only so far you can go with what Roddenberry wanted Trek to be in his final years, and only so interesting a big happy family in space can be.
I don't really agree with this, it's just the backdrop really. There's a billion interesting stories you could tell within that backdrop. Just feels a bit like a cheat to me to twist the backdrop and make that the story. -
RyanDS 13,279 posts
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Registered 12 years agoDuffking wrote:
He literally said federation people would not argue or fight with each other. He vetoed a story about a kid upset his parents died as he wanted people so evolved they dont grieve.
anephric wrote:There's only so far you can go with what Roddenberry wanted Trek to be in his final years, and only so interesting a big happy family in space can be.
I don't really agree with this, it's just the backdrop really. There's a billion interesting stories you could tell within that backdrop. Just feels a bit like a cheat to me to twist the backdrop and make that the story.
It wasnt just the backdrop, he stifled everything towards the end. -
Dirt3 1,043 posts
Seen 12 hours ago
Registered 6 years agoPicard is such a goody two shoes.
If I had to do a amazon prime show it would be "When Picard Goes Nuts"
with Picard going on a 4 year bender.
The new show is OK so far. Hopefully it will ramp up a bit soon. -
Steve-Perry 1,512 posts
Seen 5 hours ago
Registered 7 months agoIs there a way to VPN amazon prime video? I fancy watching this tonight.
Actually never mind, it's on CBS all access in the USA so it's irrelevant.
Edited by Akumer at 13:22:20 13-02-2020 -
spurslol 396 posts
Seen 8 hours ago
Registered 2 years agoRyanDS wrote:
what
spurslol wrote:
Not quite sure how that is possible when Picard hasn't even hinted at a stand alone episode yet and every episode is a direct continuation of the prior.
Even the Orville is doing serialisation better than disco/Picard though.
The Orville mixes standalone episodes with gentle plot arcs, so every episode is watchable in its own right while still contributing to the whole series. Disco and Picard (so far) seem to just be event free chapters with vague mystery cliffhangers. Even the Mandalorian is better. -
johnnyrocketfingers 300 posts
Seen 16 hours ago
Registered 1 year agoIt's a swing to just accuse the Fed of being portrayed as the Republican party.
There is a lot of context to how and why the Federation would rescind its evacuation plans and why other members are not so keen. The last few decades leading in to Picard have been at the end of what we can consider "The Golden Age". That's basically the era Picard grew up in and spent most of his time on the TNG Enterprise. What came next was a war to the Alpha Quadrant that challenged the Federation as it never had been done before. Not just in technology and arms but to the very core of how and to what lengths they would go to protect 'Paradise'. That's the Borg and the Dominion. The war with the Dominion was devastating. Thousands of ships were lost for many (state) actors in the quadrant and hundreds of millions, if not billions of lives lost across that time. Earth itself was attacked. Never has a direct assault happened besides the Borg. Core worlds like Betazed were occupied. A lot of challenges that took them to the brink.
And as is on par for what Trek is about it's going to challenge and use what is going on in today's society and how so many things we took for granted have been eroding and arising since 9/11. Trek has always mirrored the world in some ways. DS9 followed the Gulf War and began to explores issues that we can now see as almost prophetic in our post 9/11 world.
The messaging then is what it always has been and sticks to some core principles that Trek and the character Picard have driven forward since TNG. Not helping the Romulans is and was the wrong action; no matter what justification the hats in charge come up with. Picard deals with a clash of our moral principles, what defines us vs a post-war/terror defensive mindset.
This is about as Trekkish as we can ever get. The show is dealing with real social issues with cool characters old and new. -
Darth_Flibble 4,326 posts
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Registered 16 years agoI don't think its excellent, its better than discovery aka STD which is a low bar admittedly (just on ep3 of Picard now) its Bad robot brand of star trek still with member berries nods to TNG. I hope Kurtzman does leave and they get someone better as he is awful franchise runner. -
spurslol 396 posts
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Registered 2 years agoEp4 is a bonghit -
Steve-Perry 1,512 posts
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Registered 7 months agoI don't think the gulf war had anything to do with DS9. It was old news by then. I saw it more as a reflection of post cold war globalism and the challenges of that.
Trek can mirror society by sticking to it's principles. It just takes good writing, which they don't have.
I don't see what issues Discovery was tackling, bar the issue of how many CGI shuttles you can get into a space battle to blind you to the shit writing pew pew.
If this is as trekkish as it can possibly be, then just cancel the lot.
Edited by Akumer at 20:01:59 13-02-2020 -
johnnyrocketfingers 300 posts
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Registered 1 year agoHumanity and the core ideals of Starfleet and the Federation that were the pillars for all the other series, embodied in the 'first' captain of Trek; Captain Pike. -
Steve-Perry 1,512 posts
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Registered 7 months agospurslol wrote:
Just watched it. The Borg cube bits are pretty tedious but the rest of it is decent.
Ep4 is a bonghit
So much needless melodrama though. It's like watching Dawson's Creek at points.
There were a few pointless conveniences too. Won't spoil it. I'd give it 6/10, probably the weakest thus far but was ok.
Edited by Akumer at 20:48:04 13-02-2020 -
AcidSnake 8,319 posts
Seen 6 hours ago
Registered 14 years agoI enjoy the slower pacing to be honest and I'm not bothered about the other storyline, they can't show their cards too soon and it's nowhere near Discovery's Red Angel mystery...
I like how past Picard is definitely acted more energetically too...
Oh and of course the return of Seven of Nine. I'd have thought she would have reverted back to her given name by this point?
Not sure where all the negativity is coming from, I'm enjoying it... -
Khanivor 44,479 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 19 years agoI’m really enjoying this. -
Rodney 4,470 posts
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Registered 14 years agoI just caught up on this, I'm enjoying it for what it is but it doesn't feely very star Trekky to me. Why does everything have to be dark and gritty. I miss the optimism of TNG. The new series even goes out of its way to point out that replicators are shit.
The swearing is very out of place too, but then maybe a fuck today is equivalent to a dam 50 years ago.
Also, one scene at that genetics lab, the office chair totaly broke my suspension of disbelief, because I've got almost the exact same chair. They could have at least wrapped it in tin foil or something.
But I'm enjoying it despite all this, taking the show on its own terms, and not viewing it as Star Trek, it alright.
Patrick Stewart is engaging (no pun intended), but seeing him look a bit old and frail is reminding me of my own mortality a bit. In my head, Patrick Stuart is permanently stuck in his 50's, and now I realise he wasn't much older than I am now when he started playing Picard.
Edited by Rodney at 03:32:44 14-02-2020 -
Steve-Perry 1,512 posts
Seen 5 hours ago
Registered 7 months agoThe space battle in the latest one was so tacked on. And the fight with the Romulan's was ridiculous. Using the bird of prey was just misguided fan service to TOS. Seven of Nine is now a complete idiot too apparently, nearly getting herself killed. I was not invested in that battle at all.
The optimism of Trek was one of it's biggest draws for me. I think that's why Beyond was my favourite of the new movies. It showed the federation as flawed, but ultimately a noble ideology, and ends on a really positive note with Kirk having learned something other than 'muh daddy died, me angry now'.
Now we have murdering babies, evil secret agent organisations are 10 a penny, everyone in the Federation is an arsehole, decapitations, swearing, everyone is a mardy arse, awful melodrama (doing feet slides and kissy kissy romance on a borg cube, really? that whole scene was garbage)
I am enjoying Picard though because Steward is excellent and is just about holding it all together. It could be infidelity better though with some better writing.
Also, nitpick, but that android expert Federation scientist got the number of stars in the galaxy wrong by about 97 billion. Does anyone with even a passing interest of space proofread the scripts? It's a show about space ffs. -
spurslol 396 posts
Seen 8 hours ago
Registered 2 years agoAcidSnake wrote:
It’s ok, but it needn’t be Star Trek at all, they’ve already reinvented Romulans, Starfleet and the general structure of how ST tv should be.
Not sure where all the negativity is coming from, I'm enjoying it...
Personally I was looking forward to more TNG, and this ain’t it at all. Hence the negativity. The opportunity cost is high. -
Scimarad 9,755 posts
Seen 14 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoAcidSnake wrote:
You have been here before, right?
Not sure where all the negativity is coming from, I'm enjoying it....gif)
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jrmat 204 posts
Seen 7 hours ago
Registered 3 years agoThe problem with showing too much emotion before you're invested in the characters means you just don't care about them. Suspense has to be built up, it just isn't there by default. This episode was ok, I was hoping for more especially as it was directed by Frakes. The characters are too clichéd, even 7 of 9, who I thought was developed quite nicely in Voyager, she's only had one line and it came across terribly. -
dsmx 8,588 posts
Seen 6 hours ago
Registered 15 years agoI'm enjoying it, lot of miserable bastards in this thread.
Also stop wishing this series to be something else, enjoy it for what it is not what you want it to be.
Edited by dsmx at 15:53:19 14-02-2020 -
AcidSnake 8,319 posts
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Registered 14 years agospurslol wrote:
Reinvented? Stuff happened in the last few decades that would have changed both the Romulans and the Federation. That's just how things go.
It’s ok, but it needn’t be Star Trek at all, they’ve already reinvented Romulans, Starfleet and the general structure of how ST tv should be.
The Romulans are adjusting to being less secret (though some remnants cling to it) and the Federation had to finally deal with war and terrorism in the Sol system and had to maybe get off the high horse for pragmatic reasons...
I don't think there's much else they could have done, we're not getting another TNG, I don't think (large) audiences want that anymore...
Though I agree the swearing is just stupid and out of place in the universe. Not that they shouldn't be doing it, just that you'd think it would have popped up in the other series too...
Though maybe it's a fashion thing and they're reclaiming old timey words... -
dsmx 8,588 posts
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Registered 15 years agoI'm thinking with the swearing that it's just a way of highlighting where Starfleet isn't, that and this isn't on television so they can get away with far more. -
Nazo 1,372 posts
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Registered 11 years agoEnjoyed this one as well but can't help worry that once the main story gets going it could easily descend into DSC level nonsense. The first few episodes of season 2 started promisingly after all.
As much as I love Stewart, his Picard doesn't seem quite right to me, especially in the flashbacks. He seems much softer than the commanding, rather formal character of TNG. He seems more like Professor X at times. -
Load_2.0 31,893 posts
Seen 9 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoI'm loving it. It's not perfect but Pat Stew just elevates it above standard sci fi.
Agree the swearing is out of place. Kirk had to explain colorful language to Spock in Journey Home! A double dumbass on you!
Also how fine is Seven of Nine. Damn gurl!! -
alt-cmd-esc 481 posts
Seen 14 hours ago
Registered 6 years agoThis is just so badly written and acted that I can’t watch any more. Got most of the way through ep 2 last night, but it really is awful awful writing - picard’s female Romulan housemate being particularly poorly written and acted. Shame, as I actually quite enjoyed parts of discovery, but this is just unwatchably bad imo.
Edited by alt-cmd-esc at 09:42:46 15-02-2020 -
alt-cmd-esc 481 posts
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Technoishmatt 4,285 posts
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Registered 6 years agoI quite enjoyed the space elf
I just find it funny you guys forgive the previous shows so much. The science gobbledegook, the terrible space fights, the awful fist fights and phaser battles. The "too much interference" for transport or communications. Etc. I still love it all. -
bone-on 543 posts
Seen 9 hours ago
Registered 6 years agoI’m enjoying Picard, but by fuck it’s taking an age to just get going. Whereas discovery was annoying 100mph ADHD this feels like it’s being drip fed.
Considering we are nearly half way through the series it needs to get a move on. -
Im starting to hate it for making me feel like a prude every week when they drop their token f-bomb.
'By gum, I really do wish they would stop swearing'
.gif)
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