Following Star Trek Page 233

  • anephric 13 Feb 2020 12:37:52 4,202 posts
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    @Akumer There's always been 'rogue reactionary element of Starfleet' storylines in Trek since Nic Meyer/TNG did it (after the reins were wrested from Roddenberry) and yeah, he hated it. He hated making Starfleet more naval and all the accoutrements that brought with it.

    There's only so far you can go with what Roddenberry wanted Trek to be in his final years, and only so interesting a big happy family in space can be.

    I'm really not digging Picard so far, essentially it's down to the quality of the writing more than the actual concept. It's pretty poor.
  • Steve-Perry 13 Feb 2020 12:48:45 1,512 posts
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    @anephric I get where they're going with the federation, and yeah, we've seen plenty of rogue elements in the past, usually tied to individuals, not the institution itself.

    I just don't trust Kurtzman's artistic vision. He is not a good custodian of the franchise IMO. Nothing I've seen from him would suggest he really knows what Star Trek is about. The dudes who ran the 90s shows at least got it, even if they did run out of creative steam.

    Picard is encouraging thus far. Shame you don't like it. I think Sir Pat is carrying it so far, though I do like some of the new characters.
  • Duffking 13 Feb 2020 12:59:38 16,610 posts
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    anephric wrote:There's only so far you can go with what Roddenberry wanted Trek to be in his final years, and only so interesting a big happy family in space can be.
    I don't really agree with this, it's just the backdrop really. There's a billion interesting stories you could tell within that backdrop. Just feels a bit like a cheat to me to twist the backdrop and make that the story.
  • RyanDS 13 Feb 2020 13:02:54 13,279 posts
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    Duffking wrote:
    anephric wrote:There's only so far you can go with what Roddenberry wanted Trek to be in his final years, and only so interesting a big happy family in space can be.
    I don't really agree with this, it's just the backdrop really. There's a billion interesting stories you could tell within that backdrop. Just feels a bit like a cheat to me to twist the backdrop and make that the story.
    He literally said federation people would not argue or fight with each other. He vetoed a story about a kid upset his parents died as he wanted people so evolved they dont grieve.

    It wasnt just the backdrop, he stifled everything towards the end.
  • Dirt3 13 Feb 2020 13:05:45 1,043 posts
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    Picard is such a goody two shoes.

    If I had to do a amazon prime show it would be "When Picard Goes Nuts"
    with Picard going on a 4 year bender.

    The new show is OK so far. Hopefully it will ramp up a bit soon.
  • Steve-Perry 13 Feb 2020 13:21:12 1,512 posts
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    Is there a way to VPN amazon prime video? I fancy watching this tonight.

    Actually never mind, it's on CBS all access in the USA so it's irrelevant.

    Edited by Akumer at 13:22:20 13-02-2020
  • spurslol 13 Feb 2020 18:18:09 396 posts
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    RyanDS wrote:
    spurslol wrote:
    Even the Orville is doing serialisation better than disco/Picard though.
    Not quite sure how that is possible when Picard hasn't even hinted at a stand alone episode yet and every episode is a direct continuation of the prior.
    what

    The Orville mixes standalone episodes with gentle plot arcs, so every episode is watchable in its own right while still contributing to the whole series. Disco and Picard (so far) seem to just be event free chapters with vague mystery cliffhangers. Even the Mandalorian is better.
  • johnnyrocketfingers 13 Feb 2020 19:00:26 300 posts
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    It's a swing to just accuse the Fed of being portrayed as the Republican party.

    There is a lot of context to how and why the Federation would rescind its evacuation plans and why other members are not so keen. The last few decades leading in to Picard have been at the end of what we can consider "The Golden Age". That's basically the era Picard grew up in and spent most of his time on the TNG Enterprise. What came next was a war to the Alpha Quadrant that challenged the Federation as it never had been done before. Not just in technology and arms but to the very core of how and to what lengths they would go to protect 'Paradise'. That's the Borg and the Dominion. The war with the Dominion was devastating. Thousands of ships were lost for many (state) actors in the quadrant and hundreds of millions, if not billions of lives lost across that time. Earth itself was attacked. Never has a direct assault happened besides the Borg. Core worlds like Betazed were occupied. A lot of challenges that took them to the brink.

    And as is on par for what Trek is about it's going to challenge and use what is going on in today's society and how so many things we took for granted have been eroding and arising since 9/11. Trek has always mirrored the world in some ways. DS9 followed the Gulf War and began to explores issues that we can now see as almost prophetic in our post 9/11 world.

    The messaging then is what it always has been and sticks to some core principles that Trek and the character Picard have driven forward since TNG. Not helping the Romulans is and was the wrong action; no matter what justification the hats in charge come up with. Picard deals with a clash of our moral principles, what defines us vs a post-war/terror defensive mindset.

    This is about as Trekkish as we can ever get. The show is dealing with real social issues with cool characters old and new.
  • Darth_Flibble 13 Feb 2020 19:45:37 4,326 posts
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    I don't think its excellent, its better than discovery aka STD which is a low bar admittedly (just on ep3 of Picard now) its Bad robot brand of star trek still with member berries nods to TNG. I hope Kurtzman does leave and they get someone better as he is awful franchise runner.
  • spurslol 13 Feb 2020 19:51:23 396 posts
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    Ep4 is a bonghit
  • Steve-Perry 13 Feb 2020 19:53:40 1,512 posts
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    I don't think the gulf war had anything to do with DS9. It was old news by then. I saw it more as a reflection of post cold war globalism and the challenges of that.

    Trek can mirror society by sticking to it's principles. It just takes good writing, which they don't have.

    I don't see what issues Discovery was tackling, bar the issue of how many CGI shuttles you can get into a space battle to blind you to the shit writing pew pew.

    If this is as trekkish as it can possibly be, then just cancel the lot.

    Edited by Akumer at 20:01:59 13-02-2020
  • johnnyrocketfingers 13 Feb 2020 20:33:36 300 posts
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    Humanity and the core ideals of Starfleet and the Federation that were the pillars for all the other series, embodied in the 'first' captain of Trek; Captain Pike.
  • Steve-Perry 13 Feb 2020 20:47:05 1,512 posts
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    spurslol wrote:
    Ep4 is a bonghit
    Just watched it. The Borg cube bits are pretty tedious but the rest of it is decent.

    So much needless melodrama though. It's like watching Dawson's Creek at points.

    There were a few pointless conveniences too. Won't spoil it. I'd give it 6/10, probably the weakest thus far but was ok.

    Edited by Akumer at 20:48:04 13-02-2020
  • AcidSnake 14 Feb 2020 00:48:55 8,319 posts
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    I enjoy the slower pacing to be honest and I'm not bothered about the other storyline, they can't show their cards too soon and it's nowhere near Discovery's Red Angel mystery...

    I like how past Picard is definitely acted more energetically too...

    Oh and of course the return of Seven of Nine. I'd have thought she would have reverted back to her given name by this point?

    Not sure where all the negativity is coming from, I'm enjoying it...
  • Khanivor 14 Feb 2020 03:26:53 44,479 posts
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    Iím really enjoying this.
  • Rodney 14 Feb 2020 03:31:22 4,470 posts
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    I just caught up on this, I'm enjoying it for what it is but it doesn't feely very star Trekky to me. Why does everything have to be dark and gritty. I miss the optimism of TNG. The new series even goes out of its way to point out that replicators are shit.

    The swearing is very out of place too, but then maybe a fuck today is equivalent to a dam 50 years ago.

    Also, one scene at that genetics lab, the office chair totaly broke my suspension of disbelief, because I've got almost the exact same chair. They could have at least wrapped it in tin foil or something.

    But I'm enjoying it despite all this, taking the show on its own terms, and not viewing it as Star Trek, it alright.

    Patrick Stewart is engaging (no pun intended), but seeing him look a bit old and frail is reminding me of my own mortality a bit. In my head, Patrick Stuart is permanently stuck in his 50's, and now I realise he wasn't much older than I am now when he started playing Picard.

    Edited by Rodney at 03:32:44 14-02-2020
  • Steve-Perry 14 Feb 2020 11:07:35 1,512 posts
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    The space battle in the latest one was so tacked on. And the fight with the Romulan's was ridiculous. Using the bird of prey was just misguided fan service to TOS. Seven of Nine is now a complete idiot too apparently, nearly getting herself killed. I was not invested in that battle at all.

    The optimism of Trek was one of it's biggest draws for me. I think that's why Beyond was my favourite of the new movies. It showed the federation as flawed, but ultimately a noble ideology, and ends on a really positive note with Kirk having learned something other than 'muh daddy died, me angry now'.

    Now we have murdering babies, evil secret agent organisations are 10 a penny, everyone in the Federation is an arsehole, decapitations, swearing, everyone is a mardy arse, awful melodrama (doing feet slides and kissy kissy romance on a borg cube, really? that whole scene was garbage)

    I am enjoying Picard though because Steward is excellent and is just about holding it all together. It could be infidelity better though with some better writing.

    Also, nitpick, but that android expert Federation scientist got the number of stars in the galaxy wrong by about 97 billion. Does anyone with even a passing interest of space proofread the scripts? It's a show about space ffs.
  • spurslol 14 Feb 2020 14:10:30 396 posts
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    AcidSnake wrote:
    Not sure where all the negativity is coming from, I'm enjoying it...
    Itís ok, but it neednít be Star Trek at all, theyíve already reinvented Romulans, Starfleet and the general structure of how ST tv should be.

    Personally I was looking forward to more TNG, and this ainít it at all. Hence the negativity. The opportunity cost is high.
  • Scimarad 14 Feb 2020 14:13:02 9,755 posts
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    AcidSnake wrote:
    Not sure where all the negativity is coming from, I'm enjoying it...
    You have been here before, right? :)
  • jrmat 14 Feb 2020 14:18:51 204 posts
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    The problem with showing too much emotion before you're invested in the characters means you just don't care about them. Suspense has to be built up, it just isn't there by default. This episode was ok, I was hoping for more especially as it was directed by Frakes. The characters are too clichťd, even 7 of 9, who I thought was developed quite nicely in Voyager, she's only had one line and it came across terribly.
  • dsmx 14 Feb 2020 14:50:29 8,588 posts
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    I'm enjoying it, lot of miserable bastards in this thread.

    Also stop wishing this series to be something else, enjoy it for what it is not what you want it to be.

    Edited by dsmx at 15:53:19 14-02-2020
  • AcidSnake 14 Feb 2020 14:59:23 8,319 posts
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    spurslol wrote:
    Itís ok, but it neednít be Star Trek at all, theyíve already reinvented Romulans, Starfleet and the general structure of how ST tv should be.
    Reinvented? Stuff happened in the last few decades that would have changed both the Romulans and the Federation. That's just how things go.
    The Romulans are adjusting to being less secret (though some remnants cling to it) and the Federation had to finally deal with war and terrorism in the Sol system and had to maybe get off the high horse for pragmatic reasons...

    I don't think there's much else they could have done, we're not getting another TNG, I don't think (large) audiences want that anymore...

    Though I agree the swearing is just stupid and out of place in the universe. Not that they shouldn't be doing it, just that you'd think it would have popped up in the other series too...
    Though maybe it's a fashion thing and they're reclaiming old timey words...
  • dsmx 14 Feb 2020 15:06:23 8,588 posts
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    I'm thinking with the swearing that it's just a way of highlighting where Starfleet isn't, that and this isn't on television so they can get away with far more.
  • Nazo 14 Feb 2020 16:04:30 1,372 posts
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    Enjoyed this one as well but can't help worry that once the main story gets going it could easily descend into DSC level nonsense. The first few episodes of season 2 started promisingly after all.

    As much as I love Stewart, his Picard doesn't seem quite right to me, especially in the flashbacks. He seems much softer than the commanding, rather formal character of TNG. He seems more like Professor X at times.
  • Load_2.0 14 Feb 2020 22:57:58 31,893 posts
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    I'm loving it. It's not perfect but Pat Stew just elevates it above standard sci fi.

    Agree the swearing is out of place. Kirk had to explain colorful language to Spock in Journey Home! A double dumbass on you!

    Also how fine is Seven of Nine. Damn gurl!!
  • alt-cmd-esc 15 Feb 2020 09:42:04 481 posts
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    This is just so badly written and acted that I canít watch any more. Got most of the way through ep 2 last night, but it really is awful awful writing - picardís female Romulan housemate being particularly poorly written and acted. Shame, as I actually quite enjoyed parts of discovery, but this is just unwatchably bad imo.

    Edited by alt-cmd-esc at 09:42:46 15-02-2020
  • alt-cmd-esc 15 Feb 2020 09:42:05 481 posts
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    Post deleted
  • Technoishmatt 15 Feb 2020 23:57:00 4,285 posts
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    I quite enjoyed the space elf :)

    I just find it funny you guys forgive the previous shows so much. The science gobbledegook, the terrible space fights, the awful fist fights and phaser battles. The "too much interference" for transport or communications. Etc. I still love it all.
  • bone-on 16 Feb 2020 21:14:22 543 posts
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    Iím enjoying Picard, but by fuck itís taking an age to just get going. Whereas discovery was annoying 100mph ADHD this feels like itís being drip fed.

    Considering we are nearly half way through the series it needs to get a move on.
  • nickthegun 16 Feb 2020 21:33:38 82,363 posts
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    Im starting to hate it for making me feel like a prude every week when they drop their token f-bomb.

    'By gum, I really do wish they would stop swearing'
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