Following Star Trek Page 242

  • nickthegun 30 Mar 2020 09:25:54 83,632 posts
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    So... they did answer a couple of those:

    - Agnes nearly killed herself to get the tracker out of her. It was just hunky vulcan who was tracking her which is how he got there before the rest of the fleet who already knew where the planet was (she still got away with murder, though, so good for her, I guess)

    - The crazy lady went through the ring trial thing and went crazy. She then got assimilated by the borg, who also assimilated her madness and cut the cube off like an infected limb. This also means that the borg knew about the reapers and could have called them/avoided them like the plague which might have been interesting but whatever...

    Edited by nickthegun at 09:26:41 30-03-2020
  • Nazo 30 Mar 2020 09:42:20 1,495 posts
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    So the Zhat Vash setup the attack on Mars that destroyed the Romulan evacuation fleet to persuade the Federation to stop all synth research.
    I mean... couldn't they have waited until after the evacuation? Pointlessly sacrificing millions of your fellow citizens doesn't seem like a great plan. If they can control synths so easily, why not use one to blow up Starfleet HQ or something?
  • AcidSnake 30 Mar 2020 09:45:25 8,382 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    - It was just hunky vulcan who was tracking her which is how he got there before the rest of the fleet
    Yeah but why? They stuck the tracker on her on Earth and had a few covert ops teams standing by in that area anyway. How hard would it have been to have a ship tail them and wait til they reach the pirate system and help out that ancient warbird?

    - The crazy lady went through the ring trial thing and went crazy. She then got assimilated by the borg, who also assimilated her madness and cut the cube off like an infected limb. This also means that the borg knew about the reapers and could have called them/avoided them like the plague which might have been interesting but whatever...
    Interesting. So that ship (I don't remember what the ship's purpose was, wasn't it scientific or something) just brought along a clearly mentally destroyed person?
    That could have been an interesting story in itself, Romulans trying out anti-Borg bio weapons. Just send them deranged people to assimilate.

    Edited by AcidSnake at 09:55:42 30-03-2020
  • RGeefe 30 Mar 2020 09:49:56 1,439 posts
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    I am noticing a huge difference in the response to this online. Brits seem to like it much less than Americans.
  • DasBooter 30 Mar 2020 09:50:27 508 posts
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    Nazo wrote:
    So the Zhat Vash setup the attack on Mars that destroyed the Romulan evacuation fleet to persuade the Federation to stop all synth research.
    How did they do that again? I thought the androids just decided to do that for themselves.
  • Nazo 30 Mar 2020 09:55:51 1,495 posts
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    DasBooter wrote:
    Nazo wrote:
    So the Zhat Vash setup the attack on Mars that destroyed the Romulan evacuation fleet to persuade the Federation to stop all synth research.
    How did they do that again? I thought the androids just decided to do that for themselves.
    Commodore Oh engineered it somehow. It was stated in one of the episodes, her whole reason for being there was to find a way to stop synth research.
  • Sharz 30 Mar 2020 10:02:25 2,020 posts
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    Didnt like the ending, but other than that pretty happy with the series. Yes it has holes (as every fictionitous story will) but for the most part it made sense if you go with it.

    They should have just gone one way or the other, kill Picard or keep him alive in normal human way. Feels like a cop out that was thought of in a 'wouldnt it cool if' type of writers group.

    Like the idea mentioned above of having a ship named Picard and then could take series in another direction. Would be fitting to have one of the most well known admirals to get a ship named after them, and then becomes a story about her crew. Other than the ship it would also be nice if they explore the themes more. They briefly picked up the threads about what is life, that were explored with Data years ago but didnt really add anything to that topic. STD also went on about AI, so maybe something different now?

    Edited by Sharz at 10:07:48 30-03-2020
  • Bambot 30 Mar 2020 11:00:07 1,879 posts
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    I liked the show overall, but I completely agree that Stewart was just playing “kindly old man” and I never really saw very much that sounded like Picard as I knew him from however many tv series and movies. I guess too much time has passed for him to have the energy for much more than “kindly old man”.

    That said, I still liked it a lot, blubbed like a goddamn baby when he died and was resurrected, and think that people spend far far too long poking holes in plots. You can poke a hole in just about anything.
  • Deleted user 30 March 2020 12:43:58
    The last 20 minutes of this reminded me of the last 20 minutes of Discovery S2, where they crammed it loads of exposition because they basically ran out of time trying to tell a story that was rapidly disappearing up its own arse.

    It wasn't as acute, but there were some similarities.
  • drhickman1983 6 Apr 2020 08:01:11 7,215 posts
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    Finally finished Picard.

    I've seen quite sniffy reviews, and that's fair enough, but overall I rather enjoyed it.

    It wasn't perfect though - Picard didn't really give off the same air of authority as he once did, but I don't agree that it's entirely out of character as people can and do change.

    I actually liked the cast in general. Some characters were kind of superfluous but on the whole I found the characters interesting and engaging. This is certainly a massive step up over Discovery whose characters were mostly dull-as-dishwater.

    Some of the cameos felt a bit pointless too, a bit too fan servicey. Others worked very well though. Riker and Troi in particular felt quite fan servicey. I mean, good seeeing them but of all the cameos those felt the most shoehorned in for me. But I liked Sevens B-plot, and Hugh ending up where he did makes sense.

    The biggest flaw for me is how it didn't really feel like Trek. By not really having any Starfleet vessels it didn't really feel the same. It felt more like a solid, unrelated sci-fi show. On those terms it was quite enjoyable and watchable.

    I just wish they'd do another actual Star Trek series that didn't rely on heavy serialization. By all means have an ongoing story but make it more episodic, with an interesting ensemble of characters, and I'd be happier (well, assuming it's done well)
  • Sharz 6 Apr 2020 10:56:22 2,020 posts
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    drhickman1983 wrote:

    I just wish they'd do another actual Star Trek series that didn't rely on heavy serialization. By all means have an ongoing story but make it more episodic, with an interesting ensemble of characters, and I'd be happier (well, assuming it's done well)
    Do you mean like Voyager with overall story being trying to get home and then adventures along the way. Or more like Enterprise with its cold time war story?
  • nickthegun 6 Apr 2020 11:01:04 83,632 posts
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    Youre never going to get that again. We have been watching DS9 again recently and have very nearly finished (up to the episode where they went into Death off Bill and Teds mind to find the cure to the plague) and it is the absolutely perfect blend of bottle episodes and ongoing story because its 20 odd episodes a season.

    If it had half the running order, it would be all dominion, all the time with no let up and it would seem oppressively dark.

    In fact, it would probably be all dominion and the pah wraith nonsense would take a back seat, which would actually be to its benefit.

    But, yeah, unless someone takes a punt on a 'traditional' length series, this is what we are stuck with. People throwing shit against a wall until they find something that works in 10 episodes or less.
  • Load_2.0 6 Apr 2020 11:27:59 32,281 posts
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    Star Trek needs an Alien race who aren't dicks.
  • BinaryBob101 6 Apr 2020 12:43:01 27,753 posts
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    Shit.Total shit. It looked beautiful, apart from the ludicrous battle where I couldn't focus on anything.

    My expectations were so low after Discovery, I thought I'd get through it without hating it. Fucking Kurtzman is a proper cunt.
  • drhickman1983 6 Apr 2020 13:06:41 7,215 posts
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    Sharz wrote:
    drhickman1983 wrote:

    I just wish they'd do another actual Star Trek series that didn't rely on heavy serialization. By all means have an ongoing story but make it more episodic, with an interesting ensemble of characters, and I'd be happier (well, assuming it's done well)
    Do you mean like Voyager with overall story being trying to get home and then adventures along the way. Or more like Enterprise with its cold time war story?
    Yes, although voyager didn't really follow through on its execution very well, as it was a bit fond of the reset button.

    As Nick mentions DS9 got the balance right.
  • RGeefe 6 Apr 2020 13:13:38 1,439 posts
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    @drhickman1983 Voyager reset pretty much every episode. There's only a handful where anything meaningful happened. I think that show would struggle to fly these days.
  • BinaryBob101 6 Apr 2020 15:24:09 27,753 posts
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    It wouldn't even get to a pitch meeting. Nobody would bother with the matchbox either.
  • drhickman1983 7 Apr 2020 08:16:17 7,215 posts
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    It was odd how there was no reference to Lal or Lore, I mean if the show is about Data's daughters you'd think his "family" would have some relevance
  • Deleted user 7 April 2020 09:43:32
    They barely mentioned 1 of his daughters after she got snuffed, so it would be a lot to ask for them to remember Lore.

    Thinking back to the first 2 episodes of this, it started really strong. Decent links to TNG, Picard just going around being a bit of a detective, his Romulan helpers were interesting characters, slow pace.

    Cut to the end and its Roger Space Ninja, Captain Edgelord, Madame Cliched Alcoholic Trope and Lady Whimsy McMurderer on-board the USS Nonedescript flying round doing stupid shit at a million miles per hour.

    Edited by Steve-Perry at 09:44:21 07-04-2020
  • RGeefe 7 Apr 2020 09:50:28 1,439 posts
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    Something definitely changed between the first 2-3 episodes (up until he says "make it so") and the rest. I genuinely loved the pilot and it was an interesting story with a great set up that made sense.

    Then it just fell apart and he became a doddering idiot.
  • Deleted user 7 April 2020 09:53:10
    Yeah to be fair, that's the exact moment it starts to go downhill. Probably when the initial ideas ran out and they started freewheeling and writing episodes the night before shoots.
  • AcidSnake 7 Apr 2020 09:58:42 8,382 posts
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    drhickman1983 wrote:
    It was odd how there was no reference to Lal or Lore, I mean if the show is about Data's daughters you'd think his "family" would have some relevance
    Oh yeah, did they ever explain why Data was painting androids which would only be built years later?
  • General_Martok 7 Apr 2020 10:04:31 1,495 posts
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    RGeefe wrote:
    Something definitely changed between the first 2-3 episodes (up until he says "make it so") and the rest. I genuinely loved the pilot and it was an interesting story with a great set up that made sense.

    Then it just fell apart and he became a doddering idiot.
    Agreed. Their were pockets of episodes I liked after that but it never reached the heights of the first 3 episodes again.

    Probably cause they didn't show *anything* about Klingons! For shame!:p
  • DFawkes 7 Apr 2020 10:22:44 32,678 posts
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    AcidSnake wrote:
    Oh yeah, did they ever explain why Data was painting androids which would only be built years later?
    Other way around - they were designed based on his paintings. At least that's what they specifically say for Dahj (Bruce Maddox designed her based on the painting), I assume any others based on Data's painting would be the same.
  • Deleted user 7 April 2020 10:25:50
    General_Martok wrote:
    Probably cause they didn't show *anything* about Klingons! For shame!:p
    JJ Trek is embarassed by Star Trek. That's why they rarely show up and they made them look like Uruk-Hai in Discovery (which I actually approve of).
  • AcidSnake 7 Apr 2020 10:37:51 8,382 posts
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    DFawkes wrote:
    AcidSnake wrote:
    Oh yeah, did they ever explain why Data was painting androids which would only be built years later?
    Other way around - they were designed based on his paintings. At least that's what they specifically say for Dahj (Bruce Maddox designed her based on the painting), I assume any others based on Data's painting would be the same.
    Really? Completely missed that part then...So it's assumed Data made other paintings with her in them, as the other one was in Picard's vault?
    And Data also had a habit of painting muscular half clothed men?
  • DFawkes 7 Apr 2020 10:47:16 32,678 posts
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    I didn't say it made sense, just that they did cover it in the dialogue. There were 2 copies of Dahj's picture in particular, 1 of which was on Picard's wall. How Maddox saw or knew that one I don't know.

    That said, I don't remember them saying ALL the synths were based on his painting, but I might be wrong there. Maddox and Data actually got along fairly well (that was covered in TNG after the whole "you're not a person" thing) so I suppose it wouldn't be unusual for Data to have sent Maddox copies of pics he worked on. Seeing stuff like that would be very interesting to Maddox.
  • Nazo 7 Apr 2020 11:07:34 1,495 posts
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    The painting is of Lal, it was in TNG, the episode where Data’s ‘mum’ shows up.
  • creepiest-lizard 7 Apr 2020 11:28:13 2,162 posts
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    The Picard creators knowledge of Star Trek doesn’t seem to go much beyond the tng films which explains a lot of the awfulness of the show and why they seem to have no idea how to write Picards character or what the federation actually is.
    Why did they write it as if Picard and data were secretly in love with each other.? It was so fucking bizarre.
    Data’s “beautiful” face and all that..
    Why did Riker dye his hair before becoming captain again of whatever the fuck they called that ship?
    How come narek and the ninja Romulan could beat up synthetics that presumably had the strength and speed of data?
  • Nazo 7 Apr 2020 12:04:25 1,495 posts
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    I’m still kinda unclear on what the synthetics actually were. They weren’t androids like Data, right? I seem to remember Agnes saying something about them being able to put AIs in biological bodies or some such.
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