Following Star Trek Page 244

  • nickthegun 8 Apr 2020 10:36:39 82,982 posts
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    There was no small amount of writing themselves into a corner. The big reveal of the final five or whatever it was was naturally going to be disappointing as there was a small cast to choose from.

    But, like I say, I did enjoy it. The more fantastical elements were fine even if there were a lot of dead ends thrown in.
  • Steve-Perry 8 Apr 2020 10:43:49 1,803 posts
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    @nickthegun It definitely went up its own arse towards the end. However, the pilot and first 3 series up until the final 5 reveal are absolutely brilliant IMO. It's only the last series where it went south.

    I don't think it's overrated at all, it's faults have been well documented by most people. Not perfect. And I loved the ending. The larger tie ups made no sense (they do thematically but on paper, nope), but all the characters got a great finale. Most shows have crap endings. It's just the way it goes.

    They have the excuse of the writers strike going on though and messing production up on the last series.

    CBS and Secret Hideout have no excuse for 2 series of complete failure and 1 of piddling mediocrity.
  • General_Martok 8 Apr 2020 10:46:48 1,372 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Our rewatch of DS9 is pretty much complete and you would have a tough time convincing me that its not The Best One.

    I understand and care about every character, I enjoyed the ongoing stories, I enjoyed the bottle episodes (even the traditionally lame holodeck ones) and the overall tone is just wonderful.

    Its such a stark contrast to Voyager, which you can hardly believe was running in parallel.
    Agreed and Sisko is a criminally underrated Captain despite him being swallowed up by his on (worm)hole.

    Infact has any star trek series post DS9 actually mentioned Sisko?! The man literally saved the entire Alpha quadrant and there was not even one mention of him in Picard!

    All Seven of 9 has done is have good tits. :p
  • StarchildHypocrethes 8 Apr 2020 10:49:26 33,174 posts
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    DS9 is indeed the bestest.
  • Steve-Perry 8 Apr 2020 10:51:08 1,803 posts
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    I would love them to give Sisko some attention in Picard. They seem particularly infatuated with Voyager so imagine Janeway is more likely to show up. Plus I think Avery Brooks is a bit of loon IRL, not sure he would go back for a cameo.

    Edited by Steve-Perry at 10:51:30 08-04-2020
  • nickthegun 8 Apr 2020 10:59:03 82,982 posts
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    General_Martok wrote:
    Agreed and Sisko is a criminally underrated Captain despite him being swallowed up by his on (worm)hole.
    Speaking of which, unusually, there are very few complaints about his politics from the sweaty nerds in the peanut gallery. Dunno whether that says they got it spot on or people dont care enough to whine, but they werent afraid of putting siskos blackness out there.

    The ep where he refuses to go into the vegas simulation because black people werent welcome in that time period, the genuinely upsetting sci-fi writer story and the fact that the actor had the ending re-written because he didnt want the show to end with a black guy skipping out on his pregnant wife are all stuff thats great to see in a series that was traditionally fairly lightweight on things like that.
  • nickthegun 8 Apr 2020 11:00:50 82,982 posts
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    (he was supposed to return to his people for good, Brooks convinced them to add dialogue to specifically confirm he would be coming back)
  • Steve-Perry 8 Apr 2020 11:02:31 1,803 posts
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    Back in the days when they effortlessly tackled issues of diversity, rather than tacking them on (that bit with 7 of 9 and Raffi at the very end made my eyes roll 180 degrees in my head).
  • nickthegun 8 Apr 2020 11:07:23 82,982 posts
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    I know I'm gushing but, honestly, in the lockdown everyone could do far worse than blast through DS9 again. It totally holds up.
  • General_Martok 8 Apr 2020 11:11:26 1,372 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    (he was supposed to return to his people for good, Brooks convinced them to add dialogue to specifically confirm he would be coming back)
    That's a good point. Where the fuck is he?! Picard is 20 years beyond Nemesis so his kid would be at least 20 now.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 8 Apr 2020 11:15:55 33,174 posts
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    The Past Tense two-parter is cracking Political Trek.
  • drhickman1983 8 Apr 2020 11:16:13 7,002 posts
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    DS9 is my fave Trek series, but it did also have Profit and Lace which is a strong contender for worst episode ever.
  • nickthegun 8 Apr 2020 11:27:53 82,982 posts
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    General_Martok wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    (he was supposed to return to his people for good, Brooks convinced them to add dialogue to specifically confirm he would be coming back)
    That's a good point. Where the fuck is he?! Picard is 20 years beyond Nemesis so his kid would be at least 20 now.
    I like to think they are just all living the quiet life at the gumbo shack.
  • Nazo 8 Apr 2020 11:30:31 1,445 posts
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    I think DS9 is the best one overall but TNGs best episodes beat out DS9s best.
    I was a bit disappointed that they chose to emphasise that Sisko was the black captain though. I understand why they did it and some of those episodes were great but it would be nice to think well be past all that by then.
  • drhickman1983 8 Apr 2020 12:11:44 7,002 posts
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    In the Pale Moonlight is possibly my favourite Trek episode and DS9 has the best ensemble cast.

    A lot of people have the opinion that it only gets good once the Dominion war kicks off, but in all honesty that's not quite right - it does get better but the first few seasons are still cracking, the Cardassian withdrawal from Bajor and political struggles are, at least to me, often very engrossing.
  • RGeefe 8 Apr 2020 12:16:18 1,311 posts
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    I suppose Sisko had to be taken in context. If I recall, there was a second wave of Black nationalism/ Black Panther revival. Spike Lee was huge. Fresh Prince was tackling a lot of race/ class issues for a mainstream audience. And let's not forget Avery Brooks' little American History X movie.

    Trek absolutely couldn't not deal with race issues.
  • RyanDS 8 Apr 2020 12:16:45 13,326 posts
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    Nazo wrote:
    I think DS9 is the best one overall but TNGs best episodes beat out DS9s best.
    I was a bit disappointed that they chose to emphasise that Sisko was the black captain though. I understand why they did it and some of those episodes were great but it would be nice to think well be past all that by then.
    They were. All the episodes with his black history emphasis were specifically set in our time.
  • jrmat 8 Apr 2020 12:59:48 214 posts
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    I thought, barring a couple of episodes, Trek with race issues in the sense that they weren't issues. The episode in TOS when Abraham Lincoln used an outdated term in addressing Uhura, then apologised, then realised Kirk and Uhura couldn't even understand why he was apologising. Quite powerful I thought to show how people struggled to understand why they would even be issues at all.

    Arguably you could say the interactions between different Trek races was the how we get on with people different than us is a kind of way of doing it.

    All attempts at that sort of thing have felt shallow and cringeworthy in the newer stuff.
  • Dirtbox 8 Apr 2020 15:37:41 91,433 posts
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  • drhickman1983 8 Apr 2020 16:33:20 7,002 posts
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    Trek has been very progressive when it comes to captains, we've had a woman captain, a black captain and a bald captain. All the disabilities.
  • Bambot 11 Apr 2020 12:49:42 1,879 posts
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    @drhickman1983 no gay captain, though, so not quite all of them.
  • fontgeeksogood 11 Apr 2020 18:12:14 10,631 posts
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    Janeway and Archer were gay in Orange is the New Black and American Beauty
  • TechnoHippy 11 Apr 2020 18:15:10 17,738 posts
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    Thankfully no ginger captains.
  • drhickman1983 11 Apr 2020 18:51:16 7,002 posts
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    TechnoHippy wrote:
    Thankfully no ginger captains.
    there's some thing that society just isn't ready for
  • RGeefe 11 Apr 2020 18:57:22 1,311 posts
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    Started Enterprise the other day. Never really gave it a go since it was just shoved on Channel 4 at stupid times. Already enjoying it more than Discovery and the latter half of Picard. In 4 episodes I can tell you who the main characters are, their motivations and their backgrounds.

    Still can't name more than 5 characters on Discovery after two whole series.
  • Steve-Perry 11 Apr 2020 19:20:27 1,803 posts
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    Space Jesus Burnham.
    Doctor death.
    Sirri.
    Hateful ginger female.
    Engineer.
    Michelle Yeoh's character.

    Spoke and Poke from TOS are good.

    At least the ship looks nice when it's time to use THE POWER OF MATH PEOPLE for a 20 minute CGI space fight
  • RGeefe 11 Apr 2020 19:26:51 1,311 posts
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    You forgot Clem Fandango
  • TechnoHippy 11 Apr 2020 19:30:06 17,738 posts
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    I didn't mind Enterprise - I wasn't a fan of the temporal cold war, but them floundering their way through first contacts had some entertainment.

    And Hoshi...
  • jrmat 20 Apr 2020 13:40:57 214 posts
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    One for Voyager fans, Kim and Paris are doing a podcast: https://www.nerdsandbeyond.com/2020/04/19/star-trek-voyager-actors-robert-duncan-mcneill-and-garrett-wang-to-launch-podcast-the-delta-flyers/

    Could be interesting.
  • gammonbanter 20 Apr 2020 18:00:20 2,006 posts
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    Steve-Perry wrote:
    Back in the days when they effortlessly tackled issues of diversity, rather than tacking them on (that bit with 7 of 9 and Raffi at the very end made my eyes roll 180 degrees in my head).
    Oh my god, it was so stupid!!!
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