Following Star Trek Page 246

  • jrmat 20 May 2020 22:46:58 204 posts
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    Thing is have seen the odd other series that Kurtzman has been involved in such as Fringe. There is character development done well enough and a sense of family and so on. But what's happened with Star Trek has been a total train wreck.
  • Steve-Perry 20 May 2020 22:50:50 1,483 posts
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    It's a franchise name to push a streaming service in the streaming wars era. They've got a propaganda machine going pumping out articles saying how great it all is while everyone else looks on and either says "was ok" or "not really trek" or "awful".

    Anyone who genuinely enjoyed Discovery must have rank taste. How it's got to S3 is kind of amazing. If it was on network TV 10 years ago it would have been cancelled after about episode 5.

    Edited by Steve-Perry at 22:51:14 20-05-2020
  • Steve-Perry 20 May 2020 22:57:00 1,483 posts
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    Same reason why NBC are going to shart out Battlestar Galactica and Quantum Leap remakes. Flog some subs on member berries and franchise prestige. Hopefully one of them is decent
  • Dirtbox 21 May 2020 06:13:47 91,412 posts
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    I wanted to like Discovery, I struggled and faltered all through the first season, but I convinced myself they were just having a big bombastic, single perspective, poorly written, awful show for the first season and then plant their feet back into the more grounded for the second season and onward.

    Oh boy.

    I just hope they're paying Sonequa Martin-Green enough to afford her eventual tear duct reconstructive surgery. There isn't a single episode where she isn't having a fucking blub for god knows how many takes.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 06:16:47 21-05-2020
  • DrStrangelove 21 May 2020 08:05:06 15,207 posts
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    Watching Orville for the first time now and yeah it's pretty embarrassing for DIS/PIC. I mean, how Seth McFarlane's parody is better at being Star Trek and makes much more sense in general.
  • gammonbanter 21 May 2020 10:17:03 1,958 posts
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    DrStrangelove wrote:
    Watching Orville for the first time now and yeah it's pretty embarrassing for DIS/PIC. I mean, how Seth McFarlane's parody is better at being Star Trek and makes much more sense in general.
    Also, the way The Orville nailed "that" space battle was incredible! Less sophisticated cgi sure, but it was epic and engaging!

    I love The Orville but new Trek doesn't have to be a rehash of / love letter to TNG they could go for new ideas, but in the spirit of Trek!?
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 13:35:54 1,483 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    I wanted to like Discovery, I struggled and faltered all through the first season, but I convinced myself they were just having a big bombastic, single perspective, poorly written, awful show for the first season and then plant their feet back into the more grounded for the second season and onward.

    Oh boy.

    I just hope they're paying Sonequa Martin-Green enough to afford her eventual tear duct reconstructive surgery. There isn't a single episode where she isn't having a fucking blub for god knows how many takes.
    Same. I really wanted to like all this new stuff. I was so excited by the first episode of Discovery I got goosebumps during the opening credits. Star Trek, back on TV, what a time to be alive.

    Similarly, I gave it a pass for the first season, because yeah they can be shit and it did seem to get a bit better as it went on (mirror universe arc is good). Second season though, complete car crash writing.

    I still kind of hope they can do a decent 3rd season. Picard was a marginal improvement, so perhaps they can improve on that again.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 13:36:37 1,483 posts
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    DrStrangelove wrote:
    Watching Orville for the first time now and yeah it's pretty embarrassing for DIS/PIC. I mean, how Seth McFarlane's parody is better at being Star Trek and makes much more sense in general.
    I should really check this out. Sounds pretty good but I don't like that family guy blokes sense of humour. Not for me really.
  • nickthegun 21 May 2020 13:40:29 82,291 posts
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    They misadvertised it. It started off a little heavy on the gags, but its not family guy in space. It still leans on the humour but rarely at the expense of the plot.

    Its the kind of love letter to star trek that nerds used to make in their garage, but somehow, McFarlane was given millions of dollars to do it. If you watch this, or any, RLM review of recent star trek, almost every complaint they have is addressed by The Orville. For this, at least, they are completely on the same wavelength.

    Just with a few more dick jokes.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 13:43:04 1,483 posts
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    I'll have a look. What's it on in the UK? Never seen it on netflix or amazon. Or does everyone yarrrrrrrr it
  • nickthegun 21 May 2020 13:45:14 82,291 posts
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    It was on FX, so I just watched it on sky.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 13:46:05 1,483 posts
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    Think I have a sky thing somewhere - I'll have a butchers.
  • nickthegun 21 May 2020 13:52:54 82,291 posts
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    Its worth a look. Its not perfect and it started out a bit rocky, but if you are nostalgic for how trek used to be, I wouldnt be put off too much by the jokes.

    I mean, honestly, its almost like a project for an interview. It really wouldnt take much changing to rebrand it and fire it out as an actual trek show. Its as brazen as it gets.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 13:53:50 1,483 posts
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    Maybe they could do worse than give him a shake at it. He seems to be a big fan. I've seen that thing he made when he was a kid (it seems to get posted on reddit at least once a month).
  • nickthegun 21 May 2020 13:58:43 82,291 posts
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    After watching STD, STP and The Orville, I can say without hesitation that I would give McFarlane the reigns to the entire franchise in a heartbeat. He actually gets it.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 13:59:02 1,483 posts
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    They have said this Pike show is going to be more old school Trek and episodic.

    But they talk a lot rubbish, they said Picard was going to be slow and meditative, when it was people having eyeballs ripped out, heads chopped off and ninja fights every week.

    Edited by Steve-Perry at 14:00:51 21-05-2020
  • DrStrangelove 21 May 2020 14:48:02 15,207 posts
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    Steve-Perry wrote:
    DrStrangelove wrote:
    Watching Orville for the first time now and yeah it's pretty embarrassing for DIS/PIC. I mean, how Seth McFarlane's parody is better at being Star Trek and makes much more sense in general.
    I should really check this out. Sounds pretty good but I don't like that family guy blokes sense of humour. Not for me really.
    Just want to let you know that I'm not into McFarlane humour at all. I don't like Family Guy or American Dad at all. So I was far from optimistic about Orville.

    And most of Orville's humour is... ugh. But I will admit that a few times it made me chuckle.

    But the point here is that you shouldn't think of it as a Family Guy-esque parody on Trek, at least that's far from everything it is. It's a love letter to Star Trek by the guy who made Family Guy.

    In a nutshell, you can tell McFarlane loved TNG. Kurtzman never even watched it.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 14:51:27 1,483 posts
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    Thanks dude, that's pretty encouraging. I shall endeavour to find time to watch it and report back.
  • DrStrangelove 21 May 2020 14:53:48 15,207 posts
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    Steve-Perry wrote:
    They have said this Pike show is going to be more old school Trek and episodic.

    But they talk a lot rubbish, they said Picard was going to be slow and meditative, when it was people having eyeballs ripped out, heads chopped off and ninja fights every week.
    To be fair, it was slower and more meditative than Discovery. It wasn't all about ripping out eyeballs. But still it was a modern TV show and there was nothing episodic about it, and it made no fucking sense whatsoever.

    Not gonna lie, I liked some of it, but that may only be because how much I loathed Discovery. If Picard had been the follow up to Enterprise I'd probably have thrown it in the bin as well.

    I don't know... ST Picard has merits imo. But I have to admit I probably only enjoyed it because I decided to not expect anything and shut off my brain before watching. It's fine then. But yeah, it didn't live up to Trek standards like even Enterprise did.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 14:59:56 1,483 posts
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    Definitely had some good points. But overall felt like another rushed production with really lazy writing on the whole, it bared little resemblance to star trek.

    In any other context, I would have liked the scene with Data and Picard. They should have had something like that in nemesis, because it would have given his death some weight. A bit like the spock/kirk scene in the warp chamber in TWOK.

    The 'pilot' of the first 3 PIC episodes was solid. Nice little mystery to unravel. Then the following 6 episodes were very weak, and the last one was Discovery level bad.

    Just felt like they were making it up as they went along, same feeling I get with Discovery. Hopefully the long development of DSC S3 means it will be a true step up in writing.

    Everything else about the shows is fine, they look great, the actors are very good, they are just so so badly written. Plot, dialogue and character writing is the worst in the whole franchise for me, by a mile. Voyager and ENT were sterile and dull but the stories made sense and the characters motivations were simple and easy to understand (if uninspiring).

    They seem to want really complex plots and tortured characters with dark backgrounds but they don't have the competency in the writing team to deliver it. Chabon, Goldsman et al are rank amateurs from what I have witnessed.

    Edited by Steve-Perry at 15:01:45 21-05-2020
  • RGeefe 21 May 2020 15:29:28 1,082 posts
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    I've been watching ENT for the first time and the fact I can name all of the main cast/ crew, their roles, their motivations and they've each had an episode to demonstrate what they are - within the first 8 eps, puts in perspective how badly drawn the new lot are.

    I can still only name...maybe 3 crew members besides Michael (not including Spock or Pike) in Discovery. after 20 hours of television.

    I watched a few eps of Orville and I could already tell it was a much better show than anything Kurtzman has dumped on us.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 15:43:53 1,483 posts
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    Commander Crybaby
    Commander Big Lizard
    Ensign Lovemath
    Chief Engineer McCringe
    Chief Medical Officer Extralife
    Young Spork
    Captain Poke
    Mr Love Interest and Also Spy and Also was a Klingon but now works for Section 31 I think he is human now so a human spy now but also had a klingon baby that got its neck snapped wut
  • DrStrangelove 21 May 2020 15:45:34 15,207 posts
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    I think it's unfair to reduce ST Picard to the eyeball scene. That was stupid and awful, but it doesn't represent the series as a whole. Let's recall TNG S1's awful racist episode, the awful misogynist episode, and its stupid gore episode. That was garbage but it wasn't representative of TNG as a whole. You can repeat that ad infinitum but still it's a misrepresentation of TNG season 1, because most of the time it was not like that.

    ST Picard had some promise, it had promising characters, but it just kind of fizzled out into nothing. It had themes but they kind of fizzled out into nothing. I think that's the real problem with this series (aside from never making any sense, but that seems to be the new normal).

    I still think it was much better than Discovery. That just went apeshit with its nonsense about the mycelial network and everything, and it was so obsessed about being grimdark that it just committed suicide. It throws you into a world where everything is bleak and no one likes anyone else, it's a world so bleak where you wonder why everyone just doesn't kill themselves.

    It's a world where dropping the F-bomb was like OMG DID SHE JUST SAY THAT and it gets all the director's attention. ST Picard was better even at that by having it be more casual and not paying that much attention to someone saying "fuck".

    And the stupidity, I mean, ST Picard doesn't really make any sense, but just compare that with Discovery which was just a shit show of the stupidest shit you could possibly think of. And then deliver it with a straight face, without any apparent self-awareness.

    The main thing I learned from Discovery was that Star Trek is dead. No bells and whistles, it's dead and it will never come back. Maybe it was a plot to make ST Picard more compelling because at least there's some humanity in there.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 15:53:26 1,483 posts
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    Oh yeah, compared to DSC, Picard was pretty solid. But still, pretty wank and it started to slide pretty close to DSC levels of plop, particularly the awful final episode which reminded me a lot of S2 DSC finale, people just doing random shit for no reason and loads of tacked on melodrama.

    Absolutely hated the ending, what they did with Data, what they did with Picard himself, also that tacked on bit with Raffi and Seven. Just amateur hour.

    As soon as episode 3 ended, they warp away from earth, the TNG theme plays, from that very second it goes right downhill imo.
  • nickthegun 21 May 2020 16:02:35 82,291 posts
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    It shat the bed completely. Putting him into a synthetic body and handwaving it away as 'yeah, its stock, dont worry' is the worst kind of cop out, partly because it was telegraphed in big, neon flashing lights so his forced dramatic sacrifice was always going to be pointless.

    And the data scene would have been OK had they not established that the android colony was, basically, magic, so why the fuck were they keeping him purgatory? Picard, basically, released him from an existence of pure torture because none of his kids could be arsed to put him in another body? GTFO.

    And one of the war birds could have LEEEROY JENKINS'd past the blockade.

    And the blonde one literally got away with murder.

    More or less every plot point in the final episode was idiotic.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 16:09:50 1,483 posts
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    Yes it was idiotic in the extreme. I think my headcanon is Picard is dead.

    Thinking back and being kind, I did like the episode which was At Home with The Rikers. Bit grimdark but Sirtis was surprisingly brilliant and it was nice that they had a ready room style scene, despite the outcome of it being typical nonsense.
  • DrStrangelove 21 May 2020 16:15:50 15,207 posts
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    I believe I had a bias because I liked Raffi from the very first moment. Yeah it wasn't exactly subtle, but this theme of a tortured soul struggling with drugs resonates. I wanted to say similar to how ME2's Jack resonated, but actually that character was far more fleshed out. But that's Mass Effect, it's just a step above any Star Trek/Wars. Raffi went to meet her son and after that she pretty much disappeared.

    Picard's final episodes... yeah. Well. The Picard golem thing... uhm... yeah. Probably better not to talk about any of that.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 16:23:05 1,483 posts
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    I didn't mind Raffi initially, the flashbacks with her and Picard, her being a tortured souls is no problem for me. They just dumped that whole plot and the next relevant thing that happens to her is at the end when she's suddenly with Seven with no build up. What?!
  • nickthegun 21 May 2020 16:25:47 82,291 posts
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    Tbh, Iíd bang seven as soon as look at her so thatís probably the most believable thing in the whole show.
  • Steve-Perry 21 May 2020 16:27:44 1,483 posts
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    Ha, when you put it like that
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