Motorsport Page 1151

  • AaronTurner 2 Sep 2018 21:24:07 9,926 posts
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    Vettel, what on earth was going through his mind to try and force that pass? What a way to throw away a championship. Also, how weird of Ferrari to give Kimi the tow in qualy.
  • monkman76 2 Sep 2018 21:40:40 13,390 posts
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    He wasn't making a pass, he was defending his position. He should probably have conceded, but as he said in the post-race interview, the contact could have spun Hamilton as easily as it spun him.
  • AaronTurner 3 Sep 2018 07:44:53 9,926 posts
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    But he didn't need to forcea pass there. Was mental decision making.
  • monkman76 3 Sep 2018 08:03:54 13,390 posts
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    It wasn't a pass, he was ahead of Hamilton. Not sure what you mean.
  • AaronTurner 3 Sep 2018 08:25:24 9,926 posts
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    Jesus, Mr pedant this morning. I'm saying he had no need to fight for that corner. Kimi was ahead and he had the faster car (at least that's how it looked for the entire weekend). Mistakes like that will cost him the championship.
  • monkman76 3 Sep 2018 08:37:03 13,390 posts
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    Steady on tiger. The fact he was ahead into the braking zone and therefore not 'forcing a pass' is relevant, not pedantry, since in that position he could hardly just be expected to just get out of the way without any challenge.
  • brokenkey 3 Sep 2018 09:51:20 9,838 posts
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    Re the Kimi tow during qualifying, they said during the C4 qualifying show that ferrari have their drivers take it in turns to go first, and this time it was Kimi's turn to benefit.

    What about Max though - "I gave him room". Yeah Max, that was why he was on the grass.
  • Graxlar_v3 3 Sep 2018 13:04:27 4,030 posts
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    McLaren set to chuck another young driver to the wolves...
  • up_the_ante 3 Sep 2018 13:43:54 710 posts
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    So Sainz and Norris? Looks like McLaren have given up completely on being a front running team
  • AaronTurner 3 Sep 2018 14:34:49 9,926 posts
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    I guess Sainz has enough experience now to help develop the car, Norris could be very good.
  • shamblemonkee 4 Sep 2018 12:49:28 17,937 posts
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    @monkman76 The smart thing for Vettel to do would have been to cede the second half of the chicane as Hamilton had the high ground by then and instead switch-back to get a run down through the lesmos, ascari and so on.

    But easy to say in retrospect.
  • thelzdking 4 Sep 2018 13:10:07 8,485 posts
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    True, but he'd have had to brake hard and he did have Verstappen and Grosjean behind him.
  • monkman76 4 Sep 2018 13:31:48 13,390 posts
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    shamblemonkee wrote:
    @monkman76 The smart thing for Vettel to do would have been to cede the second half of the chicane as Hamilton had the high ground by then and instead switch-back to get a run down through the lesmos, ascari and so on.

    But easy to say in retrospect.
    Oh I agree it was a mistake on Vettel's part, I was just taking issue with the suggestion (as I read it) that it was reckless idiocy.
  • Phattso 4 Sep 2018 14:12:21 23,745 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    True, but he'd have had to brake hard and he did have Verstappen and Grosjean behind him.
    Vettel said himself that this was the reason he didn't just lean on the brakes, indeed.
  • AaronTurner 4 Sep 2018 15:00:42 9,926 posts
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    Better to crash into someone in front then let someone crash you from behind!
  • Singularity 4 Sep 2018 15:40:07 2,792 posts
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    @Phattso Did he really say that? That's just lunacy.

    I see he's now causing bother by saying that he's 'racing three cars'. Bit surprising its a lead Ferrari saying that.
  • Phattso 4 Sep 2018 15:49:11 23,745 posts
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    I'm paraphrasing from an article on the BBC, but he basically said there was no way he was going to brake hard in that scenario because that would simply have caused a massive pileup. That isn't lunacy for me, I'd have to say. But for the understeer he might've gotten away without the contact.

    It was, as was concluded, a racing incident. You might argue that he could've been more cagey - although I personally wouldn't - but then champions aren't made from drivers that back off. It was just one of those things.
  • Singularity 4 Sep 2018 16:28:28 2,792 posts
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    @Phattso But like Aaron said, you donít definitely crash into someone in front of you to mitigate the risk of being hit from behind.

    And I very much doubt he was thinking that at the time. He wanted that place back.
  • TheSaint 4 Sep 2018 16:33:31 17,936 posts
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    The reason he chose to make contact rather than brake was because nine times out of ten Hamilton is coming out worse in that situation.
  • Graxlar_v3 4 Sep 2018 16:35:21 4,030 posts
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    F1 fans a weird bunch...

    He tried to stop Ham making a move, it backfired.

    The end.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 4 Sep 2018 16:39:42 31,836 posts
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    Come on, we all know the members of this thread have better race craft than most of these so called "professionals".
  • Graxlar_v3 4 Sep 2018 16:43:23 4,030 posts
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    Well, that is true i suppose.
  • Singularity 4 Sep 2018 16:52:22 2,792 posts
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    StarchildHypocrethes wrote:
    Come on, we all know the members of this thread have better race craft than most of these so called "professionals".
    OK, shut the forums. We have no need to discuss anything any more!
  • Phattso 4 Sep 2018 16:56:20 23,745 posts
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    Singularity wrote:
    @Phattso But like Aaron said, you donít definitely crash into someone in front of you to mitigate the risk of being hit from behind.

    And I very much doubt he was thinking that at the time. He wanted that place back.
    That impact in the front could 50/50 go either way. Hard braking in that scenario? You're going to have the back of your car fucked by the chasing pack. It's really not hard to see how the choice he made was the 'correct' choice in that instance. The fact that he might have been making the choice subconsciously in a fraction of a second is why he's in the cockpit and not us. :)

    I really don't agree that it's a clear fuckup on his part. It's just one of those thing. Hamilton spins instead of Vettel and everyone would be having this exact conversation in reverse. :-D
  • Singularity 4 Sep 2018 16:59:55 2,792 posts
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    Phattso wrote:
    Hard braking in that scenario? You're going to have the back of your car fucked by the chasing pack. It's really not hard to see how the choice he made was the 'correct' choice in that instance.
    I know the car behind was Verstappen, but they were well ahead of fourth place. There was plenty of time for the chasing pack to take avoiding action. Like they did when he was facing backwards! ;P
  • Phattso 4 Sep 2018 17:05:05 23,745 posts
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    Yeah, but he was off the racing line then. :)
  • AaronTurner 4 Sep 2018 17:40:08 9,926 posts
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    Phattso wrote:
    Singularity wrote:
    @Phattso But like Aaron said, you donít definitely crash into someone in front of you to mitigate the risk of being hit from behind.

    And I very much doubt he was thinking that at the time. He wanted that place back.
    That impact in the front could 50/50 go either way. Hard braking in that scenario? You're going to have the back of your car fucked by the chasing pack. It's really not hard to see how the choice he made was the 'correct' choice in that instance. The fact that he might have been making the choice subconsciously in a fraction of a second is why he's in the cockpit and not us. :)

    I really don't agree that it's a clear fuckup on his part. It's just one of those thing. Hamilton spins instead of Vettel and everyone would be having this exact conversation in reverse. :-D
    A correct choice that ended up with him last! Not sure I agree.
  • Phattso 4 Sep 2018 18:27:07 23,745 posts
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    Iím talking about the choice not to slam the brakes on. A car going into the back of him probably means he doesnít finish the race.

    *shrug*

    Iím not all that invested. Most pundits have written it off as one of those things that happens and unfortunately for him could have a big impact on Vettelís season rather than it being a clear Vettel fuckup. I agree with that sentiment.
  • Singularity 5 Sep 2018 09:42:24 2,792 posts
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