Motorsport Page 1172

  • gang_of_bitches 10 Jun 2019 07:18:29 5,707 posts
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    To be fair Hamilton and Vettel were within two seconds of eachother for the best part of 40 laps but the fact that Hamilton didn't look even slightly likely to make an overtake for more than 5 of them is a huge issue.

    Sadly they're a victim of their own success, the cars at the front of the grid are just too well designed to create competitive racing.
  • AaronTurner 10 Jun 2019 13:22:37 11,102 posts
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    Wow, just watched that race. Firstly, are the FIA actually trying to increase the feeling of disinterest in F1? This has been so poorly handled.

    The race reminded me in some ways of the day Barrichello gave Schumacher a race win and the crowd booed schumacher. Hamilton is a disingenuous bastard, just like Schumacher on that day, he was fully convinced over the radio that it was the deserved result but then on hearing the boos he tries to put Vettel on the top podium, what a joke.

    All round, what a way to turn a potentially good battle into a turd of a race. Well done everyone involved.

    Edited by AaronTurner at 13:24:17 10-06-2019
  • SolidSCB 10 Jun 2019 13:45:01 11,400 posts
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    Hamilton is Hamilton, you know you're going get the conniving and insincerity. What's really disappointing is how hell bent the FIA are on killing what's left of the sport.
  • up_the_ante 10 Jun 2019 13:47:50 1,096 posts
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    Whatís happened to all the internet idiots that constantly post FIA = Ferrari International Assistance now? 😂 Havenít seen many of them for a few seasons actually
  • up_the_ante 10 Jun 2019 13:47:51 1,096 posts
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    Whatís happened to all the internet idiots that constantly post FIA = Ferrari International Assistance now? 😂 Havenít seen many of them for a few seasons actually
  • Graxlar_v3 10 Jun 2019 16:09:28 7,617 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    It sounds like I'm not missing much this season, then.
    Missed out on Seb having a hiss fit and moving the result boardings around so that he would be no.1 (its been so long since he has seen that).

    Its the same as the handball rule, its ridiculous and needs to change, but a rule is a rule and it was broken.
  • gang_of_bitches 10 Jun 2019 16:29:46 5,707 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    Wow, just watched that race. Firstly, are the FIA actually trying to increase the feeling of disinterest in F1? This has been so poorly handled.

    The race reminded me in some ways of the day Barrichello gave Schumacher a race win and the crowd booed schumacher. Hamilton is a disingenuous bastard, just like Schumacher on that day, he was fully convinced over the radio that it was the deserved result but then on hearing the boos he tries to put Vettel on the top podium, what a joke.

    All round, what a way to turn a potentially good battle into a turd of a race. Well done everyone involved.
    Or alternatively Vettel left the track, gained an advantage and returned to the track unsafely which is against the rules and then proceeded to throw a hissy fit like a two year old while Hamilton tried to placate him.

    It was as good a battle as it was going to get for many laps prior to the incident. Would it have been a good battle is Hamilton had not hit the brakes and they'd both crashed out of the race which would have been to his advantage?

    It's the cars and the tracks that are the problem, not the raceday rules and the drivers.
  • RawShark 10 Jun 2019 17:13:49 727 posts
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    All I know is that I would love to have a Vettel-rampage minigame where you control a disgruntled F1 driver as he storms through the team area looking for race stewards.
  • up_the_ante 10 Jun 2019 17:15:00 1,096 posts
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    The funniest part was his car wasnít there when he moved the place signs 😂
  • AaronTurner 10 Jun 2019 18:00:05 11,102 posts
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    Think it's definitely a rules problem when we punish someone for getting out of shape on a street circuit lined with walls. May as well tell them all to line up rank and file and do the parade lap and then go home at this point if we are that scared of the consequences of racing fast.
  • DangerousDave_87 10 Jun 2019 18:36:50 6,310 posts
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    I haven't seen this incident, but when Vettel lost control and left the track, did it look like he kept his foot planted on the gas as he rejoined the track? If he did, then there's no argument. That's a desperate attempt to hold position after a fuck up. If he forced Hamilton into an evasive maneuver, then i'd deem that unsafe. That's a pretty reasonable penalty. Easily avoided by not fucking up.

    Having said that, it's been a pretty boring season from what I have seen. Rules aren't going to fix that. The sport has had this issue since 2005, when everybody starting complaining about the difficulty of following other cars. How has it been 14 years and that issue still exists? Even seasons we remember being great since then have been plagued with a lack of overtaking or difficult overtaking. The championships may have been exciting from a points perspective, but from a racing perspective it's been broken. Really broken.
  • gang_of_bitches 10 Jun 2019 18:53:53 5,707 posts
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    DangerousDave_87 wrote:
    I haven't seen this incident, but when Vettel lost control and left the track, did it look like he kept his foot planted on the gas as he rejoined the track? If he did, then there's no argument. That's a desperate attempt to hold position after a fuck up. If he forced Hamilton into an evasive maneuver, then i'd deem that unsafe. That's a pretty reasonable penalty. Easily avoided by not fucking up.
    Listening to the footage you can clearly hear Vettel's revs go up pretty much at the moment he leaves the grass and for me that's what creates the oversteer that causes him to force Hamilton to hit the brakes and avoid a crash.

    And this is why I can't agree with @AaronTurner's assessment, it was how Vettel came back onto the track which was dangerous not what was happening when he left it. There are track limits for a reason, on a true road circuit the penalty for exceeding those limits is crashing and being out of the race, at this corner that wasn't the case. If you want to decide track limits don't matter we can just rebrand it all as rallycross and get on with our lives.

    Re. Formula 1 being rubbish since 2005, I don't remember it being that much better beforehand, god knows why I've been watching it for 30 odd years.

    Edited by gang_of_bitches at 18:55:30 10-06-2019

    Edited by gang_of_bitches at 19:10:20 10-06-2019
  • TheSaint 10 Jun 2019 19:08:26 18,736 posts
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    @gang_of_bitches

    Totally agree.
  • SolidSCB 10 Jun 2019 19:17:26 11,400 posts
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    It's pretty much the first incident I've seen where the majority of past and present drivers have gone "that's bullshit, there was nothing else he could have done". I'm inclined to agree with them. It's easy to sit and watch it frame by frame, and forget all this happened over the space of about 2 seconds.
  • gang_of_bitches 10 Jun 2019 19:21:05 5,707 posts
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    Rosberg didn't agree and he's hardly Lewis' number one fan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gykAh22nbM

    and

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48583803

    Edited by gang_of_bitches at 19:24:20 10-06-2019
  • waggy79 10 Jun 2019 19:29:20 2,002 posts
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    Regardless he made an error and would have lost position. Rather than the 5 seconds he should have been made to allow Lewis to pass then try to take it back. At least it would be in his control to win from there.
  • SolidSCB 10 Jun 2019 19:34:22 11,400 posts
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    I could get the umpteen driver quotes that call bullshit on the penalty but I'm sure we've all seen/heard them at this point.
  • gang_of_bitches 10 Jun 2019 19:35:52 5,707 posts
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    SolidSCB wrote:
    I could get the umpteen driver quotes that call bullshit on the penalty but I'm sure we've all seen/heard them at this point.
    True and none of them had access to telemetry/camera angles that the stewards had.
  • AaronTurner 10 Jun 2019 19:42:56 11,102 posts
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    I think the point for me is that it's another time that stewards have had a significant impact on the outcome of a race. When it boils down to it, it was just a racing incident. Regardless of fault it was two drivers driving to the max, no one crashed. We should be able to have racing incidents and loss of control without penalties, it's ridiculous.
  • Graxlar_v3 10 Jun 2019 19:43:31 7,617 posts
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48583803

    Palmer there with the ultimate catch 22 for vettel
  • gang_of_bitches 10 Jun 2019 19:54:02 5,707 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    When it boils down to it, it was just a racing incident.
    What does that even mean? Everything that happens in racing is "just a racing incident". And the only reason that no-one crashed is because the driver who was 100% not at fault slammed his brakes on.
  • AaronTurner 10 Jun 2019 21:15:48 11,102 posts
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    gang_of_bitches wrote:
    AaronTurner wrote:
    When it boils down to it, it was just a racing incident.
    What does that even mean? Everything that happens in racing is "just a racing incident". And the only reason that no-one crashed is because the driver who was 100% not at fault slammed his brakes on.
    You said you've been watching F1 for 30 years? Come on, I don't have to explain to you what a racing incident means.
  • gang_of_bitches 10 Jun 2019 21:22:45 5,707 posts
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    It's an entirely subjective term and an evolving one. 30 years ago a wheel coming loose and flying into the crowd was just a racing incident, now it would be grounds for abandoning a race.
  • SolidSCB 10 Jun 2019 21:23:49 11,400 posts
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    I'm gonna go with the fairly large volume of people who have actually driven an F1 car in situations like that one and spoken out against the incident. It's as unanimous an agreement as you're likely to see over such a controversial moment really.
  • spurslol 10 Jun 2019 21:29:12 104 posts
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    What's controversial for me is people still giving a shit about F1. It's properly shit this year.
  • AaronTurner 10 Jun 2019 21:33:09 11,102 posts
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    gang_of_bitches wrote:
    It's an entirely subjective term and an evolving one. 30 years ago a wheel coming loose and flying into the crowd was just a racing incident, now it would be grounds for abandoning a race.
    Mate, I'm not going to argue the toss on a term that's used regularly throughout motorsport. I'll accept you think there is blame, my opinion is a little different.
  • gang_of_bitches 10 Jun 2019 21:37:37 5,707 posts
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    SolidSCB wrote:
    I'm gonna go with the fairly large volume of people who have actually driven an F1 car in situations like that one and spoken out against the incident. It's as unanimous an agreement as you're likely to see over such a controversial moment really.
    You don't think maybe a lot of those drivers have a vested interest in being controversial? "The rules were applied as they are written" is hardly the kind of hot take that's going to make anyone give a shit what you say in the modern media environment. The Sky Sports F1 pundits definitely need something even vaguely exciting to punctuate fairly processional races.

    I'm not big on Twitter so maybe I'm missing the general mood.
  • thelzdking 10 Jun 2019 21:40:45 9,514 posts
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    gang_of_bitches wrote:
    It's an entirely subjective term and an evolving one. 30 years ago a wheel coming loose and flying into the crowd was just a racing incident, now it would be grounds for abandoning a race.
    It would still be a racing incident. A racing incident is an incident that arises in the general course of racing. Hence the term "racing incident". This is opposed to an incident which has been caused by contrivance of a team and/or driver.

    Come on now.
  • gang_of_bitches 10 Jun 2019 21:47:02 5,707 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:


    Mate, I'm not going to argue the toss on a term that's used regularly throughout motorsport. I'll accept you think there is blame, my opinion is a little different.
    Can't argue with that, I'm really not trying to be a dick, I just think the likes of Brundle use it so liberally to mean "I think this is fine no matter what the rules say" that it becomes pointless. But that has far more to do with my feelings about Martin Brundle than anything else.
  • SolidSCB 10 Jun 2019 22:07:49 11,400 posts
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    I think we can all agree it has made a truly shit season just a little bit shitter. You could tell the championship was a complete write off after about 3 races so this is a further nail in the coffin.

    France will suit Mercedes to a tee so we can all look forward to business as usual next time.
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