Following Motorsport Page 1248

  • SnackPlissken 29 Mar 2021 09:32:00 3,180 posts
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    Haha I didn't mean to piss on all your chips. I guess in my opinion there was an inconsistency with that corner which again highlighted how ridiculous race control decisions are really.
    And pit strategies I agree have been round for years and it just gives me flashbacks to those Ferrari races where there was little to no overtaking and just pit strategy wins. Depends on whether you're invested in tactics?
  • urban 29 Mar 2021 10:06:46 13,125 posts
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    Hulk doubled down fast on week 1 to take the lead in the league with a Mega Drive chip. Strong confidence in Verstappen eh?
  • muddyyfunster 29 Mar 2021 10:58:05 1,069 posts
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    SnackPlissken wrote:
    Haha I didn't mean to piss on all your chips. I guess in my opinion there was an inconsistency with that corner which again highlighted how ridiculous race control decisions are really.
    And pit strategies I agree have been round for years and it just gives me flashbacks to those Ferrari races where there was little to no overtaking and just pit strategy wins. Depends on whether you're invested in tactics?
    Think those are both fair points personally.

    The track limits issues are stupid. Every track has white lines that mark the boundary. Make the rule that you have to keep at least one tyre in contact with the line at every corner throughout the whole season and have done with it. I don't think it would hurt the racing.

    Michael Massey created the ambiguity by changing the guidance several times across the weekend. Ironic that it was Red Bull pushing for a harsher interpretation midway through the race that then left them no leg to stand on at the end. It shouldn't even be a debate each weekend when the answer is so obvious.

    I quite like an element of tyre strategy, as it lends another dimension. There's always been a need to manage tyre, brake and engine life in F1.

    However, I don't want a return to refuelling days where 90% of passes for the lead were in the pits. I just want two different strats to be viable and this weekend that was the case, which I thought was actually pretty good. Given the RB pace through the middle of the lap, I'm not sure whether Hamilton would have been able to close within DRS if he was the one following so I suspect without mandatory stops, it would have been less eventful (a bit like that Barcelona race a few years ago).

    Edited by muddyyfunster at 11:00:36 29-03-2021
  • SolidSCB 29 Mar 2021 11:13:10 15,688 posts
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    I'll happily take a lot of strategy overtakes if it means a genuine world championship battle that goes to the wire. Races with lots of on track overtakes are great and everything, but when there's practically nothing at stake for any of them I don't really feel a great sense of satisfaction from them. As a viewer I'm not at all arsed that if Renault gets more points than Alpha Tauri this weekend they get a few extra mil in prize money. Those aren't the stakes I tune in hoping to see.
  • brokenkey 29 Mar 2021 11:35:02 10,948 posts
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    Tyres, fuelling etc. None of those are the problem. The problem are the tracks.

    Last year should go down in history as having some of the best racing across the seaon) of the last 20 years, because they went to a bunch of tracks which were barely suitable and not built for F1 tv audiences.

    edit: I know Lewis walked it in, but so what, there's another 19 cars on the track.

    Edited by brokenkey at 11:35:46 29-03-2021
  • urban 29 Mar 2021 13:02:01 13,125 posts
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    muddyyfunster wrote:
    SnackPlissken wrote:
    Haha I didn't mean to piss on all your chips. I guess in my opinion there was an inconsistency with that corner which again highlighted how ridiculous race control decisions are really.
    And pit strategies I agree have been round for years and it just gives me flashbacks to those Ferrari races where there was little to no overtaking and just pit strategy wins. Depends on whether you're invested in tactics?
    Think those are both fair points personally.

    The track limits issues are stupid. Every track has white lines that mark the boundary. Make the rule that you have to keep at least one tyre in contact with the line at every corner throughout the whole season and have done with it.
    This
  • muddyyfunster 29 Mar 2021 13:24:20 1,069 posts
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    muddyyfunster wrote:
    Solid start for my fantasy team.

    My brave boys starting P1, P4, P5, P6 and P9 tomorrow.
    Aged well. Now rock bottom after all five of them went backwards in the race.
  • dsmx 29 Mar 2021 18:56:31 8,637 posts
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    The only issue I have with the race yesterday was them changing the rule on turn 4 halfway through the race.

    The drivers were told before the event even bugun that the race stewards were only policing turn 4 in free practice and qualifying. In the race turn 4 was only going to be an issue if the driver got a "lasting advantage."

    In the context of F1 rules "lasting advantage" means basically if you overtake someone off the track, I know it seems daft but as the rules are written that is what they boil down to.

    What bugs me is them changing this rule halfway through the race and that is why Hamilton said he'd been doing it all race because he and Mercedes knew the rule on turn 4 and apparently Red Bull and Verstappen didn't.

    Still with all that said and the race over I found it an incredible race to watch mostly, there was a few dull bits but overall there was action, overtaking and suspense during most of the race.

    I understand why people get pissed off at the track limit rules but alas the FIA and the race stewards have never really been consistent on this, ever, and they don't look like they are in any rush to change this.

    Edited by dsmx at 18:57:09 29-03-2021
  • SolidSCB 29 Mar 2021 19:17:43 15,688 posts
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    Was a non issue until they started primarily racing in glorified car parks. Days gone by they'd have either slid off or beached it. Really don't see how it's hard to say "Keep at least a wheel inside the white lines at all times or you'll be punished". Some of the lines these guys take these days at certain tracks are ridiculous. It feels cheeky doing it on a computer game FFS.
  • bzzct 29 Mar 2021 19:23:03 2,358 posts
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    What is it with Honda toiling for years to get competitive and then quitting just as they get to the front? They did it as a team in the Button era and now they're doing it again as an engine supplier. All of the investment, none of the pay-off.
  • Robospud 29 Mar 2021 23:35:24 146 posts
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    Pit strategy has always been there, but you used to be able to tell the drivers were really wrestling with the cars and that they were on the limit. You really don't see that these days, especially at the front the cars are on rails and they're just running around to designated lap times that their engineers have prescribed in order to make the tyres last for just the right amount of time, something Mercedes' data analysts seem to have mastered better than any other (for example, Lewis' engineer got on the radio and correctly told him exactly what lap Verstappen would catch him on, before Verstappen had even completed his out lap)

    There's a certain one-sidedness to any battle involving Mercedes too. When they went for the undercut they came out behind a Ferrari, but immediately blasted past him on the straight with complete ease. When Verstappen caught Hamilton, even with much fresher tyres and DRS, his car simply didn't have the straight line speed to get anywhere near the Mercedes down the straights and into the heavy braking zones, forcing him to go for riskier overtakes in the twisty bits, something Albon has learned is near impossible against Lewis and his propensity to bump you off the road.

    I do think the pundits have massively overplayed the speed of the Red Bull. Crofty mentioned in passing during qualifying that Bottas has made it to Q3 for 50-something races in a row. Perez failed to manage one in a row, not having enough pace in the car to make the medium tyre work in the way that the two Mercs easily could.

    And of course then there was the total inconsistency with application of the rules. Mercedes spent half the race ignoring turn 4, but as soon as Red Bull realised this and started doing it themselves, suddenly the stewards decided it was no longer allowed. Without that inconsistency the undercut may not have worked in the first place and the outcome may have been different.

    All of that added up to an unsatisfying race, and I have doubts about Red Bull's ability to regularly fight for wins once Merc fix their teething problems with the new floor, so I suspect we're heading towards yet another season of more of the same.

    I did enjoy some of the racing further back though, like the three world champions giving it everything for something like 13th place, fighting in cars that actually were handfuls to control. Hope to see some more of that, maybe a little further forward if Alpine and Aston Martin get their act together. I do hope we see some of that Alonso magic again this year and he hasn't lost it. The thought of guys like him, Vettel and Ricciardo going wheel to wheel in cars that might be evenly matched on some circuits at least is pretty exciting.

    Edited by Robospud at 23:42:02 29-03-2021
  • monkman76 30 Mar 2021 07:15:06 18,559 posts
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    Both Mercedes and RB are inarguably faster than the Ferraris, so that comparison is meaningless. And by the time Max caught Lewis his tyres were not significantly fresher as they were mediums and tyre deg was very high.
  • myk 30 Mar 2021 09:10:18 770 posts
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    Also it's different tactics at different times. A midfield car isn't going to hold up a leading car too long if it'll compromise their strategy, whereas if you're trying to hold a place in the closing laps you save ERS for coming out of the final corner and the straight and force the chaser to go off the racing line into the dirty bits of the track.

    I think if Max hadn't tried to overtake on the outside, he'd have probably been in a position to pass in another lap or two's time. I don't think it's impetuousness, more that drivers panic that they'll only get limited opportunities to make the attempt (and that's where he's got to have more confidence in the car).
  • SolidSCB 30 Mar 2021 10:20:48 15,688 posts
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    Ultimately he went with the chance that was presented to him. The Merc was a little better most of the weekend coming out onto the start/finish straight so he had to have a go when DRS actually managed to close him up a bit. You saw after that he was losing a tenth or two every time they came onto the last straight (think he even lost DRS one of the laps) so it's just one of those. There was no guarantee he was going to get better traction out of the last corner again on those tyres.
  • muddyyfunster 31 Mar 2021 10:56:26 1,069 posts
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    Of course we'll never know for sure what would have happened if Max had waited for another lap, but personally, I think it would have been a reasonably easy pass into T1 with DRS had he kept it tidy and not cooked his tyres by running wide twice.

    The commentators mentioned that the Merc engine was "derating" (I believe this is essentially emptying the battery too soon) at the end of the straight when the Honda wasn't. This is a reversal of last year, and whilst there are lots of aspects to consider when deciding the 'best' engine it would appear to be evidence of Honda superiority in this regard so had the higher top speed for Bahrain.

    I massively agree with @Robospud point about the cars being on rails, it kills the spectacle somewhat. However, I disagree that this is just preserving the tyres. Rather it's because the cars are far too bloated heavy and with too much downforce. The reason they looked so much more lively in the V10 era was because they weighed less than 75% of the current weights, plus they had less downforce. Next year should help with the latter at least and improve the spectacle.

    Edited by muddyyfunster at 10:58:06 31-03-2021
  • KD 31 Mar 2021 13:31:34 3,363 posts
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    https://mazesp.in/
  • SolidSCB 16 Apr 2021 11:23:48 15,688 posts
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    He's at it again this weekend then. 2 spins in the first session.

    Garbage.
  • Jono62 16 Apr 2021 11:34:05 26,850 posts
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    He's going for the record.

    I hope the Russian money is enough to cover the damage he does to the cars.
  • up_the_ante 16 Apr 2021 12:13:29 1,536 posts
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    I feel bad for Guenther Steiner. He's probably got Gene Haas in one ear and Mazepins father in the other. All while the Netflix cameras follow him everywhere and the team gets worse every season.

    Edited by up_the_ante at 12:13:54 16-04-2021
  • Graxlar_v3 16 Apr 2021 12:19:32 10,950 posts
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    up_the_ante wrote:
    I feel bad for Guenther Steiner. He's probably got Gene Haas in one ear and Mazepins father in the other. All while the Netflix cameras follow him everywhere and the team gets worse every season.
    You have to wonder how long it is until Thd Mazepins start to blame the car.
  • KD 16 Apr 2021 12:25:03 3,363 posts
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    Another thread made me thnk of something, here's Carlos Sainz losing the 1998 RAC Rally near me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liBLqmeHht8&t=140s



    Edited by KD at 12:26:26 16-04-2021
  • up_the_ante 16 Apr 2021 20:49:02 1,536 posts
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    KD wrote:
    https://mazesp.in/
    0d 09h 48m 19s
    since last spin
  • monkman76 17 Apr 2021 14:12:00 18,559 posts
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    Aw man, thought Lando was on for pole there.

    Perez ahead of Verstappen. Huh.
  • Phattso 17 Apr 2021 15:30:29 27,081 posts
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    So I finally reached breaking point with the faff of finding a stream to watch F1. Am I mad, or is literally the only way to watch it legit in the UK to get a Sky TV package and bolt on Sports?

    I see there's a day pass for a tenner which I could probably swallow, but since F1 is really three days there's no way I'm coughing up £30 per event.

    I think I go through this every couple of years, and this is why I end up just watching a dodgy stream. :/
  • SolidSCB 17 Apr 2021 15:46:26 15,688 posts
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    Not that I'd ever advocate such treachery, but if you put the words 'Sport' and 'Surge' together in a search bar without any spaces you get a very interesting result for, ahem, research. I've definitely not used it consistently for a few years now and it definitely always gets taken down in the middle of a race, so in closing BUY SKY SPORTS IT'S GREAT.
  • puddleduck 17 Apr 2021 15:46:42 1,987 posts
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    @Phattso

    Would something like this be cheaper?
  • KD 17 Apr 2021 15:48:21 3,363 posts
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    Everyone who has sky can get 4 devices to use online, my parents have let me have 2 devices, grandfather 1 and my dad the last spot. Considering my father works away thats 4 addresses using one account.
  • Kostabi 17 Apr 2021 16:18:28 5,923 posts
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    Fuck NowTV. But direct from F1 themselves for £5.99 a month.

    Use a VPN to a country with F1TV Pro availability and then download the app and purchase it with Apple/Google Pay.

    For those with an Apple TV youíll need the unofficial tvOS app too which you get from the the F1TV subreddit.

    Or steal it via stream, but fuck NowTV and Sky.
  • Phattso 17 Apr 2021 16:29:29 27,081 posts
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    Yeah, the surgey sporty place is where Iím at now, itís just the dance to find the right stream that actually works in the rushed few minutes before a race starts but after Iíve belatedly remembered itís starting.

    Plus Iíd kinda like to pay for this thing I enjoy, but Sky are taking the utter piss. Iíll look into the other suggestions - cheers!
  • Phattso 17 Apr 2021 16:30:11 27,081 posts
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    (Annoyingly, the Sky coverage is the one I like best, but ho hum)
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