What the general public doesn't know about Nintendo

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  • CyberClaw 22 Jun 2004 19:50:27 2,085 posts
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    I've posted it on the comments section of the article about Nintendo products inducing epiletic seizures.
    I refer various illegal "manouvers" they alreay did, from price fixing to tampering and hidding evidence.
    http://www.eurogamer.net/article_discussion?article_id=55768#justposted

    Scroll to the lastest posts.

    Nintendo tries to transmit a friendly family image, but the truth is far from that. Many "older" gamers endeer Nintendo because that's what they grew up with. I don't say hate Nintendo, I just say, learn the facts on Nintendo's modus operandi.
  • monkeyspasm 22 Jun 2004 19:54:55 2,968 posts
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    Nintendo were the first videogame firm to introduce epilepsy warnings in their games manuals.
  • Freek 22 Jun 2004 19:58:27 7,682 posts
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    Big company has dirty secrets, "oh shocking".
    Not.
    The whole point of the program that tabliod based it's article on was to discover the dirty secrets and hidden agenda of big companies, they all have them and it makes for great TV, but it's hardly surprising.

    Edited by Freek at 18:59:53 22-06-2004
  • mal 22 Jun 2004 19:59:23 29,326 posts
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    I know that according to Atari fans (er, not Infogrames, YKWIM) Nintendo are the devil incarnate. I know their charges for getting the 'official Nitendo seal of approval' are supposedly ridiculous, but it's not like they had a monopoly, just that until Sony turned up, no competitor had enough nouse to knock them on the head for it. I tend to forgive them a lot for digging us out of the depression that Atari created.
  • yegon 22 Jun 2004 20:01:57 6,511 posts
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    CyberClaw, you better not be wearing Nikeys.
  • Pike 22 Jun 2004 20:10:03 13,459 posts
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    yegon wrote:
    CyberClaw, you better not be wearing Nikeys.

    What's wrong with Nike?
  • CyberClaw 22 Jun 2004 20:10:40 2,085 posts
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    monkeyspasm wrote:
    Nintendo were the first videogame firm to introduce epilepsy warnings in their games manuals.
    You are like the 7th person who tells me that, and I just asked you, WHY did Nintendo iclude the epilepsy warnings in their manuals? They did it because in 91, they found out that games could trigger seizures (it wasn't known before). They were the first, simply because in 91, there was only Nintendo.

    But that doesn't mean nothing, since the warning warns us against "photosensitive epileptics", describing it as a disease. Fine and dandy, but there are games that may induce seizures in regular folk. Such was the case of a Pokemon episode, which lead many japanese children to the hospital (The episode wasn't translated). Does the game manual contain any "this game may induce seizures to non epileptic people" warnings? Nope, and you know why? Because that'd bunk the business for good. My proposal, is having the games being rated on their content, not only saying if it contains violence, sex, etc. but also putting a warning in games which have strong colors, which flash at certain rates (Mario Kart DD and Metroid Prime were referred as examples).

    mal wrote:
    I know that according to Atari fans (er, not Infogrames, YKWIM) Nintendo are the devil incarnate. I know their charges for getting the 'official Nitendo seal of approval' are supposedly ridiculous, but it's not like they had a monopoly, just that until Sony turned up, no competitor had enough nouse to knock them on the head for it. I tend to forgive them a lot for digging us out of the depression that Atari created.
    They had the monopoly until SEGA Mega Drive had the courage to publish Mortal Kombat with gore and fatalities. SNes sales bunked, SEGA came up with the "We do what Nitendon't" slogan, and even if Nintendo did lower their noose and let Mortal Kombat 2 come out with fatalities it was already too late to recoup the losses.

    Edited by CyberClaw at 19:12:12 22-06-2004
  • mooth-EcToX 22 Jun 2004 20:10:56 3,619 posts
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    hey dude dont diss nintendo!
  • CyberClaw 22 Jun 2004 20:16:10 2,085 posts
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    [$mooth] EcToX wrote:
    hey dude dont diss nintendo!
    I'll stop dissing Nintendo when Nintendo stops dissing me.

    And I'm not dissing. I'm just bringing to light some interesting facts. Hiding evidence from the court? That souds very bad. I mean, if a prostitute does what she does for a living, calling her a whore, is not dissing her, is saying the truth.

    Although the truth can hurt. People not aware of her job might find it offensive.
    Same with Nintendo and it's fanboys.

    Yes, in my anology, Nintendo is the whore, and you are the people - although I don't know how fitting the word is.
  • monkeyspasm 22 Jun 2004 20:18:23 2,968 posts
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    CyberClaw wrote:
    monkeyspasm wrote:
    Nintendo were the first videogame firm to introduce epilepsy warnings in their games manuals.
    You are like the 7th person who tells me that, and I just asked you, WHY did Nintendo iclude the epilepsy warnings in their manuals? They did it because in 91, they found out that games could trigger seizures (it wasn't known before). They were the first, simply because in 91, there was only Nintendo.

    Sega weren't around in 1991?

    Or several hundred other videogame publishers?





    Edited by monkeyspasm at 19:20:06 22-06-2004
  • Freek 22 Jun 2004 20:19:38 7,682 posts
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    Perhaps it's just me, but that's an issue about videogames in general, not just Nintendo. it's something the industire as a whole needs to deal with and start comming up with standards, ratings and tests.

    Edited by Freek at 19:23:20 22-06-2004
  • mal 22 Jun 2004 20:21:24 29,326 posts
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    CyberClaw wrote:
    They had the monopoly until SEGA Mega Drive had the courage to publish Mortal Kombat with gore and fatalities. SNes sales bunked, SEGA came up with the "We do what Nitendon't" slogan, and even if Nintendo did lower their noose and let Mortal Kombat 2 come out with fatalities it was already too late to recoup the losses.
    I can't quite figure this bit out, actually. I know that the MD was more popular in Europe, but I thought the situation was reversed in the states. However, this page suggests the Genesis outsold the SNES in the states too, though it also says that worldwide the SNES outsold the Genesis. That's a lot of systems sold in Japan (and possibly Australia).
  • yegon 22 Jun 2004 20:24:47 6,511 posts
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    Pike wrote:
    yegon wrote:
    CyberClaw, you better not be wearing Nikeys.

    What's wrong with Nike?

    You're kidding right? Google it. I'm not taking issue with Nike, they're no different to any other big corp., just that if Claw is seriously pissed off by Nintendo, by the same token, he should take issue with 1000s of other big corporations with very, very unethical (see evil) business practices.

    And Claw - wasn't this all covered 10 years ago in that book, Game Over? I forget the author...


    Edited by yegon at 19:26:15 22-06-2004
  • mal 22 Jun 2004 20:28:10 29,326 posts
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    monkeyspasm wrote:
    Sega weren't around in 1991?

    Or several hundred other videogame publishers?
    Is that a question? The company that went on to become Sega formed in 1940 in America, moved to Japan in 1952 and renamed itself to Sega, and in 1964 merged with another American company. Only in 1984 did it become wholly Japanese owned. Possibly this is why the Mega Drive didn't do as well as the SNES in Japan.
  • monkeyspasm 22 Jun 2004 20:29:39 2,968 posts
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    Yegon's right, this sort of stuff is hardly new - most (of not all) big businesses have practices that would seem unethical to the man on the street.

    It's how they get ahead.

    I think you're overreacting CyberClaw but hey, each to their own.

    And I'm not a Nintendo fanboy - I don't own a 'Cube although I have got a GBA.


    Edited by monkeyspasm at 19:30:07 22-06-2004
  • Pirotic Moderator 22 Jun 2004 20:31:40 20,642 posts
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    i also hear mario bathes in the blood of virgins to stay forever young.
  • monkeyspasm 22 Jun 2004 20:32:19 2,968 posts
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    mal wrote:
    monkeyspasm wrote:
    Sega weren't around in 1991?

    Or several hundred other videogame publishers?
    Is that a question? The company that went on to become Sega formed in 1940 in America, moved to Japan in 1952 and renamed itself to Sega, and in 1964 merged with another American company. Only in 1984 did it become wholly Japanese owned. Possibly this is why the Mega Drive didn't do as well as the SNES in Japan.

    No. It was a reply to CyberClaw stating that only Nintendo existed in 1991.

    Unless you're being sarcastic...! In which case, er, ;)
  • CyberClaw 22 Jun 2004 20:33:20 2,085 posts
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    monkeyspasm wrote:
    Sega weren't around in 1991?

    Or several hundred other videogame publishers?
    Yes they were, and the warnings although not imidiate were also added to the manuals by them. Like I said, it was Nintendo who found out about it. Before, no one knew. The thing is, that they've been hiding documentation about seizures induced by their videogames, as if they didn't know that some games were causing it (when quite in fact they do know).

    Freek wrote:
    Perhaps it's just me, but that's an issue about videogames in general, not just Nintendo. it's something the industire as a whole needs to deal with and start comming up with standards, ratings and tests.

    Edited by Freek at 19:23:20 22-06-2004
    Yes, but Nintendo games are more likely to cause seizures, than games like GTA or FF. Nintendo games use bright strong colors, many reds and yellows, with many flashes. This is what might cause the seizure, if it is in a certain patern. The probability of this happening with GTA, are far less, since GTA uses deader tones of color, and doesn't show any flashing at all.

    The warning should come in ANY game that has the above mentioned problems. But obviously, both MS and Sony support way more mature games, with Nintendo having the whole "kiddy look" market.

    mal wrote:
    I can't quite figure this bit out, actually. I know that the MD was more popular in Europe, but I thought the situation was reversed in the states. However, this page suggests the Genesis outsold the SNES in the states too, though it also says that worldwide the SNES outsold the Genesis. That's a lot of systems sold in Japan (and possibly Australia).
    Like I said, Mega Drive overlapped Nintendo on the monthly sales (or at least took a big chunk out of their cut) when MK was released. This in America. Although SNes had already sold many systems, ence why it was in the front.

    I'm just guessing, I don't know the numbers, but I do have the slight idea SNes came on the top in the totals.
  • Pike 22 Jun 2004 20:33:54 13,459 posts
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    yegon wrote:
    Pike wrote:
    yegon wrote:
    CyberClaw, you better not be wearing Nikeys.

    What's wrong with Nike?

    You're kidding right? Google it. I'm not taking issue with Nike, they're no different to any other big corp., just that if Claw is seriously pissed off by Nintendo, by the same token, he should take issue with 1000s of other big corporations with very, very unethical (see evil) business practices.

    Edited by yegon at 19:26:15 22-06-2004

    Well you know that's the thing. Nike are today a lot better than most other companies when it comes to ethical business practices. The Nike brand took way to much damage in the sweatshop scandals for the company to risk new scandals.

    Problem is that the numbskulls in the anti-globalisation movement refuse to acknowledge this and continue to use Nike as a symbol of what they percieve as capitalist exploitation of the third world.
  • CyberClaw 22 Jun 2004 20:37:01 2,085 posts
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    Pirotic wrote:
    i also hear mario bathes in the blood of virgins to stay forever young.
    He should have started earlier then.

    But the point is that although we've heard reports of MS trying to hold the monopoly, and providing jinxed MS hosted pages to competitor browsers - that's just small stuff, compared to what came to light on Nintendo's actions. They are the Yakusa betwen the pickpoketers.
  • WoodenSpoon 22 Jun 2004 20:37:50 12,360 posts
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    Pirotic wrote:
    i also hear mario bathes in the blood of virgins to stay forever young.

    lol!

    :D
  • yegon 22 Jun 2004 20:38:29 6,511 posts
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    Pike wrote:
    Problem is that the numbskulls in the anti-globalisation movement refuse to acknowledge this and continue to use Nike as a symbol of what they percieve as capitalist exploitation of the third world.

    Fair do's. I don't know much about the whole anti-globalisation movement (I fall firmly into the "moan-and-groan-but-do-nothing-about-it" camp, much like the majority of people, sadly), I was merely using Nike as an example to illustrate to CC that dodgy practises are incredibly common amongst huge corporations across a variety of fields...LIKE XboxWorld ;0)

    Edited by yegon at 19:39:49 22-06-2004
  • timo180 22 Jun 2004 20:40:14 2,714 posts
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    Not this bloody stuff again, blah blah Nintendo blah blah epilepsy. How many times do we have to read this? Do you honestly think that Nintendo games are the ONLY ones that could make you have epilepsy? if you do you are sadly mistaken.
  • Freek 22 Jun 2004 20:43:00 7,682 posts
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    Yes, but Nintendo games are more likely to cause seizures, than games like GTA or FF. Nintendo games use bright strong colors, many reds and yellows, with many flashes. This is what might cause the seizure, if it is in a certain patern. The probability of this happening with GTA, are far less, since GTA uses deader tones of color, and doesn't show any flashing at all.

    The warning should come in ANY game that has the above mentioned problems. But obviously, both MS and Sony support way more mature games, with Nintendo having the whole "kiddy look" market.


    There's more to this world then GTA, and there's no reason a mature game woulden't have flashes or explosians or textures with repaeting paterns either, Nintendo isn't the only company making brightly coloured games either. Simpel fact is nobody is looking into this. The only reason the tabliod came after Nintendo is due to a program that looked into Nintendo specificly. If they looked into the videogame industrie as a whole no doubt more games would come to light.
    Besides, what good is it if there's no standard that every1 has to reach? Making the law specially for Nintedo doesn't do anybody any good. What would that do for any1 playing a PS2 game and getting a seizure or Xbox or what ever system the future holds?

    Edited by Freek at 19:44:41 22-06-2004
  • CyberClaw 22 Jun 2004 20:43:07 2,085 posts
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    yegon wrote:
    Fair do's. I don't know much about the whole anti-globalisation movement (I fall firmly into the "moan-and-groan-but-do-nothing-about-it" camp, much like the majority of people, sadly), I was merely using Nike as an example to illustrate to CC that dodgy practises are incredibly common amongst huge corporations across a variety of fields...LIKE XboxWorld ;0)

    Edited by yegon at 19:39:49 22-06-2004

    Because they are common doesn't mean they should be ignored nor go without punishment. And a great part of the punishment, is raising general public awareness. If people are disgusted by Nike's behaviour, be it the past or current beaviour, they won't buy their products. But if this isn't discusted, people won't know - ence they won't have problems buying their products.

    I'm not saying we should boycott Nintendo. Just that we should discuss and pass the word.
  • monkeyspasm 22 Jun 2004 20:44:01 2,968 posts
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    I really hate the sensationalism surrounding tabloids and videogames.

    But Mario is evil.

    It's the EYES, man.

    /shudders

    /holds up placard 'Lara Croft Ate My Children!'

    edit - missing word

    Edited by monkeyspasm at 19:47:17 22-06-2004
  • monkeyspasm 22 Jun 2004 20:46:37 2,968 posts
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    Freek wrote:

    Besides, what good is it if there's no standard that every1 has to reach? Making the law specially for Nintedo doesn't do anybody any good. What would that do for any1 playing a PS2 game and getting a seizure or Xbox or what ever system the future holds?

    Edited by Freek at 19:44:41 22-06-2004

    Agree with your post on the whole, but seizure warnings are in every game manual I've got...!
  • CyberClaw 22 Jun 2004 20:48:56 2,085 posts
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    Freek wrote:
    If they looked into the videogame industrie as a whole no doubt more games would come to light.
    Besides, what good is it if there's no standard that every1 has to reach? Making the law specially for Nintedo doesn't do anybody any good. What would that do for any1 playing a PS2 game and getting a seizure or Xbox or what ever system the future holds?
    MAking laws for Nintendo? That's ridiculous. Nintendo is by far the greatest offender with it's first party products, that's all. The laws should be obviously global, and applyed to every videogame.

    What you don't seem to get, is that you will never ear a piece of news of people who had seizures after seeing the latest buffy episode. No matter how many explosions it uses. The problem resides in those bright colors we see in cartoons like pokemon.

    And once again, I guess you didn't understand. The example I gave with pokemon, induced seizures in normal people, people who were and are not epileptic. We have all been warned that games induce epyletic seizures on epyleptic people - but they can induce seizures in NON-Epyleptics. Although those games, are just a select few who have certain colors and certain flashes of color with certain frequencies.
  • mal 22 Jun 2004 20:49:58 29,326 posts
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    monkeyspasm wrote:
    No. It was a reply to CyberClaw stating that only Nintendo existed in 1991.

    Unless you're being sarcastic...! In which case, er, ;)
    Er, no I wasn't. Might have misread you, sorry. I think CyberClaw was trying to say that it was only Nintendo who made games [that caused epilepsy] in 1991, but his clarification didn't really clarify it either. Meh, who cares?
  • Whizzo 22 Jun 2004 20:50:10 44,807 posts
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    Video games causing epileptic seizures was known prior to '91, in fact one of my friends (who knew he was an epileptic but didn't know he was photosensitive) dropped to the floor while playing Apocalypse on the BBC in about 1985-86.

    The rapidly flashing screen effects when a nuke went off were a bit much for those without epilepsy let alone a photosensitive.
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