CaptainKerbal wrote:Again, it's not a day off; striking staff are not paid and, in fact, a lot of them will be helping out in union duties. |
Tube Strikes • Page 13
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imamazed 6,708 posts
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Registered 15 years ago -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
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Registered 20 years agoimamazed wrote:
Is media bias responsible for their grossly inflated pay packets and the simple fact that the jobs in question are no longer relevant? IF the RMT had been around back in the day there would probably still be loads of fellas employed to scoop up horse shit from the streets.
And with your second point, you've sort of answered your own question. They're coming across like that because of media bias, not because of their actual activites. -
RyanDS 14,073 posts
Seen 21 hours ago
Registered 13 years agoimamazed wrote:
I also take unpaid holiday sometimes when the weather forecast is bad and I feel like a day in bed.
CaptainKerbal wrote:
Again, it's not a day off; striking staff are not paid and, in fact, a lot of them will be helping out in union duties.
Anyway enjoy your day off / "strike" .....
Scum. -
Inertia 697 posts
Seen 2 hours ago
Registered 11 years ago@Khanivor
Do we take that attitude of over-inflated pay to the whole market then? They hardly earn ridiculous sums of money. I would say they earn a reasonable wage. Just because other people's wages are unreasonable isn't a valid argument to bring everyone down to their level. It might even suggest that we need unions in more industries to counter the lowest common denominator logic of global markets.
As technology or technics is a process to increase efficiency then ultimately we are all going to get poorer except for the management structure that organise these efficiencies. There is a point when efficiency becomes antisocial. But you'll never see that argument being made in the media. -
surely over inflated pay isn't a fixed value; it's a dynamic figure judged relative to social peers.
I agree that, if anything, the poor are disproportionately paid too little, but that is surely indicative of a wider social problem that requires a wider social solution. -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
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Registered 20 years agoI think the argument that efficiency is anti-social has been made since the invention of the plow. -
Inertia 697 posts
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Registered 11 years ago@Khanivor
It has been made, normally in the negative i.e Luddites. Nobel prize winning economists have made the argument too. But it isn't engaged with. Efficiencies in business are seen as a positive. You won't rise through the ranks proposing ways to make your business more inefficient. Technology has become synonymous with progress. And the two go hand in hand with modern business and economic practices.
No one discusses the outcomes of excessive efficiency. But everywhere you here the argument, positively, for them. I just have the feeling that technique has got ahead of us, and through technology, we are making a society we have an antipathy towards.
"If we are to create balanced human beings, capable of entering into world-wide co-operation with all other men of good will — and that is the supreme task of our generation, and the foundation of all its other potential achievements — we must give as much weight to the arousal of the emotions and to the expression of moral and esthetic values as we now give to science, to invention, to practical organization. One without the other is impotent."
-Lewis Mumford -
RyanDS 14,073 posts
Seen 21 hours ago
Registered 13 years agoWhen you are taking about the daily travel of fifteen million people versus 1000 overpaid people demanding more benefits than the general population enjoys I personally would rather side with the fifteen million who would benefit from better efficiency. -
spindizzy 7,755 posts
Seen 4 weeks ago
Registered 17 years agoInertia wrote:
Sorry, just to be clear - are you saying that people should be proposing ways to make business more inefficient? I could understand the argument that efficiency isn't everything, but how can efficiency ever NOT be a positive?
@Khanivor
It has been made, normally in the negative i.e Luddites. Nobel prize winning economists have made the argument too. But it isn't engaged with. Efficiencies in business are seen as a positive. You won't rise through the ranks proposing ways to make your business more inefficient. Technology has become synonymous with progress. And the two go hand in hand with modern business and economic practices.
Countless industries have died because times move on, but tough. It's just what happens and it's not like there aren't other jobs out there... -
elstoof 28,125 posts
Seen 55 minutes ago
Registered 16 years agoInertia wrote:
The lyrics aren't much cop without the banjo or vocal harmonies.
"If we are to create balanced human beings, capable of entering into world-wide co-operation with all other men of good will — and that is the supreme task of our generation, and the foundation of all its other potential achievements — we must give as much weight to the arousal of the emotions and to the expression of moral and esthetic values as we now give to science, to invention, to practical organization. One without the other is impotent."
-Lewis Mumford -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agoInertia wrote:
No shit. Well, unless you are Bob Crow.
You won't rise through the ranks proposing ways to make your business more inefficient. -
chopsen 21,958 posts
Seen 13 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoInertia wrote:
Think you're experiencing confirmatory bias here. It's a point that gets made often. Even the Economist, hardly a left leaning mag, had a cover story on it the other week.
No one discusses the outcomes of excessive efficiency. But everywhere you here the argument, positively, for them.
So should we be arguing for the return of manned telephone exchanges? The outlawing of the tractor? Where do you draw the line here? Let's make all goods to be bought and sold be individually hand made. Nobody could afford to buy a car or a fridge, but think of the jobs it would create!
(btw, not a strawman, it's a reductio ad absurdum of the position that efficiency is inherently bad) -
PazJohnMitch 17,276 posts
Seen 15 hours ago
Registered 14 years agoIn a craft based industry a reduction in efficiency can be good. Hand made items are more unique and personalised than a machine manufactured one that is identical to all others. So pottery, fashion etc can benefit from reduced technology.
Honestly do not think it applies to the tube. Although it would in some areas if those employed were friendlier and did not see the public as an inconvenience. Sadly the pay packet bursting rewards of previous strikes has made all tube employees feel entitled and therefore superior to the people they were originally intended to help. -
disusedgenius 10,677 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 14 years agoI suspect that their sense of entitlement is directly linked to their bargaining ability (i.e. the extent that the city relies on their service). No different to the rest of us, they just happen to have their shit together. -
elstoof 28,125 posts
Seen 55 minutes ago
Registered 16 years agoI make luxury goods by hand for a living, it's really not comparable to the tube strikes in the slightest.
If no one appreciates my output enough that they're willing to pay me for it, I don't earn money. I don't get to throw a public hissy fit about it.
Edited by elstoof at 10:12:48 06-02-2014 -
Dougs 100,414 posts
Seen 16 hours ago
Registered 18 years agoThis could mean a whole load of fun....!
http://londonist.com/2014/02/tube-revenue-strikes-friday-and-next-week.php -
danathjo 8,294 posts
Seen 3 months ago
Registered 14 years agoDid that actually happen today? I take the train in myself and it was (delayed) business as usual. -
Dougs 100,414 posts
Seen 16 hours ago
Registered 18 years agoI've no idea, interesting idea though. Far more likely to gain favour with the public (who doesn't like free travel!) and get TfL/Mayor round the table by hitting them where it hurts, but I have no idea how legal it is. Not very would be my guess -
Bob Crow; the man who lives in a council house. -
Dougs wrote:
Well that's sounds nice and legal. Stealing from your employer.
This could mean a whole load of fun....!
http://londonist.com/2014/02/tube-revenue-strikes-friday-and-next-week.php
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