US calls NHS "evil" Page 3

  • Deleted user 13 August 2009 08:40:46
    Hilariously given what they did they have the balls to put in -

    We suspect the concern in the U.K. (and the U.S.) over our editorial is similar to a diversionary tactic used here in the Colonies. When you don't want to talk about some of the realities of government-run medical care, you change the subject. You may call elderly town hall protestors a coached mob.

    So they know what they're doing, then.
  • HoriZon 13 Aug 2009 08:41:25 14,274 posts
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    Paperghost wrote:
    heh, the paper / site that started it all can't bring themselves to apologise and comes up with this instead...

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=334974250188090

    Must be true its on the internet!
  • Deleted user 13 August 2009 08:41:44
    Also, how much truth is in this?

    So it's no surprise to discover that while breast cancer in America has a 25% mortality rate, in Britain it's almost double at 46%. Prostate cancer is fatal to 19% of American men who get it; in Britain it kills 57% of those it strikes. We are not making this up.

    Do you have to make allowances for a larger population?
  • Deleted user 13 August 2009 08:51:14
    Jesus, having read up on this, some of the shit the Republicans are flinging on television adverts (wtf) at the NHS/Britain is absurd. I wouldn't be suprised if diplomats got involved, if not already. If not, why not, Mr B?
  • Metalfish 13 Aug 2009 08:54:21 9,191 posts
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    squarejawhero wrote:
    Also, how much truth is in this?

    So it's no surprise to discover that while breast cancer in America has a 25% mortality rate, in Britain it's almost double at 46% Or, you know about 19-25%. Prostate cancer is fatal to 19% of American men who get it; in Britain it kills 57% Or, actually 34% of those it strikes. We are not making this up. YES YOU FUCKING ARE

    Do you have to make allowances for a larger population?
    I have no idea where they're getting their data from, source?
  • TheStylishHobo 13 Aug 2009 08:54:30 3,185 posts
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    squarejawhero wrote:
    Also, how much truth is in this?

    So it's no surprise to discover that while breast cancer in America has a 25% mortality rate, in Britain it's almost double at 46%. Prostate cancer is fatal to 19% of American men who get it; in Britain it kills 57% of those it strikes. We are not making this up.

    Do you have to make allowances for a larger population?

    Cancer deaths per 100,000 people.

    So the mortality rate when they get cancer is lower (can I get a source for that?), but you're a lot less likely to get cancer in the first place in Britain. I'm no health expert, so I'm not going to hazard a reason for why this is but it is interesting nonetheless that the overall mortality rate is lower.
  • Vice.Destroyer 13 Aug 2009 08:55:05 7,311 posts
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    Because, according to the Guardian

    [code]The British embassy in Washington is quietly trying to counter inaccuracies. A spokesman said: "We're keeping a close eye on things and where there's a factually wrong statement, we will take the opportunity to correct people in private. That said, we don't want to get involved in a domestic debate."[/code]

    I think it is extremely embarrassing that a motor neurone disease sufferer like Prof Stephen Hawking has more balls than our diplomats.

    @SJH. Naturally. I'll try and shoehorn a link to the thread about whether 30 and above is to old to play videogames in here somehow. Just for you
  • henro_ben 13 Aug 2009 08:56:27 2,391 posts
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    squarejawhero wrote:
    Also, how much truth is in this?

    So it's no surprise to discover that while breast cancer in America has a 25% mortality rate, in Britain it's almost double at 46%. Prostate cancer is fatal to 19% of American men who get it; in Britain it kills 57% of those it strikes. We are not making this up.

    Do you have to make allowances for a larger population?

    I don't know much about statistics but cancer research uk says: crude rate 38.6%, age standardised rate 26.7% for 2007 for the UK.
  • TheStylishHobo 13 Aug 2009 08:56:33 3,185 posts
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    Well not really embarrassing at all. It's being responsible is what it is. It's not their place to get involved in American debates.
  • Deleted user 13 August 2009 09:00:38
    Vice.Destroyer wrote:
    Because, according to the Guardian

    [code]The British embassy in Washington is quietly trying to counter inaccuracies. A spokesman said: "We're keeping a close eye on things and where there's a factually wrong statement, we will take the opportunity to correct people in private. That said, we don't want to get involved in a domestic debate."[/code]

    I think it is extremely embarrassing that a motor neurone disease sufferer like Prof Stephen Hawking has more balls than our diplomats.

    @SJH. Naturally. I'll try and shoehorn a link to the thread about whether 30 and above is to old to play videogames in here somehow. Just for you

    /suddenly ages

    IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT.

    OK, so someone's keeping an eye on it. Even if they don't want to get into it when it blatantly involves us, despite keenly getting involved on Iran over similar slurs.
  • Deleted user 13 August 2009 09:01:48
    henro_ben wrote:
    squarejawhero wrote:
    Also, how much truth is in this?

    So it's no surprise to discover that while breast cancer in America has a 25% mortality rate, in Britain it's almost double at 46%. Prostate cancer is fatal to 19% of American men who get it; in Britain it kills 57% of those it strikes. We are not making this up.

    Do you have to make allowances for a larger population?

    I don't know much about statistics but cancer research uk says: crude rate 38.6%, age standardised rate 26.7% for 2007 for the UK.

    So, basically slightly worse than the proposed statistics from the American source, but who knows what arse they're pulling those figures from.
  • Vice.Destroyer 13 Aug 2009 09:02:34 7,311 posts
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    TheStylishHobo wrote:
    Well not really embarrassing at all. It's being responsible is what it is. It's not their place to get involved in American debates.

    There is a difference at meekly being slandered and getting involved in american debates. They can give the british opinion a much bigger platform without taking sides. The truth is enough for people to make up their own minds.

    But when is all said and done, this whole furore means nothing. I appreciate the NHS. And I can quite confidently think that nobody in the UK is THIS desperate for health care.
    hopefully
  • henro_ben 13 Aug 2009 09:05:02 2,391 posts
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    squarejawhero wrote:

    So, basically slightly worse than the proposed statistics from the American source, but who knows what arse they're pulling those figures from.

    Yeah, as I said I don't know much about statistics but I'm guessing they're comparing crude rates to age standardised rates i.e. comparing apples to oranges. I could be wrong though...
  • speedofthepuma 13 Aug 2009 09:08:24 13,428 posts
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    What may be affecting figures regarding mortality is attitudes towards screening; there is a belief that screeing too often, or in the wrong groups, can lead to over diagnosis and over treatment. Thus your incidence of the disease would go up and your mortality figures would go down, but in fact you are inflicting unnecessary treatments on people who would never have developed a "true" cancer.
  • figgis 13 Aug 2009 09:08:47 7,721 posts
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    Vice.Destroyer wrote:

    I think it is extremely embarrassing that a motor neurone disease sufferer like Prof Stephen Hawking has more balls than our diplomats.


    Diplomats aren't really supposed get stuck into arguements.
  • Vice.Destroyer 13 Aug 2009 09:15:27 7,311 posts
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    figgis wrote:
    Vice.Destroyer wrote:

    I think it is extremely embarrassing that a motor neurone disease sufferer like Prof Stephen Hawking has more balls than our diplomats.


    Diplomats aren't really supposed get stuck into arguements.

    Like I said, there is a difference between getting stuck into an argument, and presenting a much more visible platform to counter these half-truths. Because these half-truths can have a terrible impact on the perception of people that we would be quite happy to come and invest or visit the UK. Be it tourists with their valuable euros, companies looking to invest, whatever it may be.

    And the reason that I picked Stephen Hawking is that he said his piece, it was given a huge platform, and he has managed not to get himself into an argument. I know that he is the smartest man in the universe, but I think that even our diplomats can manage that.
  • X201 13 Aug 2009 09:16:43 20,702 posts
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    The heart attack fatality rate quote is twisted data.

    The heart attack rate in the US started increasing in the US from the late 50s onwards, and hit stupid proportions in the 70's. The UK was still in the grips of austerity after WWII and so the diet wasn't as poor as the US.

    We're both on the same curve but at different stages.
  • Deleted user 13 August 2009 09:20:44
    This whole debate just goes to show that healthcare isn't the problem in America, it's their education system.
  • JonFE 13 Aug 2009 09:27:47 2,011 posts
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    Well, Michael Moore's Sicko is a real eye-opener when it comes to USA health care system and how it compares to other nations as Canada or the UK...

    ...including highlights like the elder Canadian couple taking extra health insurance prior to a visit to the USA and making sure they'll be transferred and hospitalized back in Canada in case of an accident/illness while on US soil, an American mother with a Canadian friend crossing the border to visit a public Canadian hospital or Michael Moore himself digging up a cashier office in a British NHS hospital only to find out that it's there not to get money from the patients but to give them some in case they cannot afford transportation home.

    It also includes a reproduction of this Ronald Reagan speech against socialized medicine.
  • TheStylishHobo 13 Aug 2009 09:30:56 3,185 posts
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    Sicko makes a lot of good points. There is a lot of sketchy editing and uses quite a bit of questionable journalistic techniques, BUT, it undeniably shows a lot of good points.
  • PhoenixWolf 13 Aug 2009 09:52:34 64 posts
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    TheStylishHobo wrote:
    toy_brain wrote:
    RedSparrows wrote:
    I like how the US anti-healthcare ranting has united all manner of British outlooks into a general 'How very dare you'.
    GLOL, though I'm not entirely sure why (might be the Cointreau talking).

    Haha, definitely worth a GLOL :]

    The British are traditionally quiet, but if you dare insult our healthcare system, well you be ready for a very coordinated retort!

    I think Thatcher said the NHS is the closest thing we have to a religion

    Still, the sheer cheek of the Americans. We never said it was perfect, but we damn make sure we treat everyone we can
  • Paperghost 13 Aug 2009 09:57:53 1,702 posts
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    i can't decide if this guy is a troll, a really advanced spambot or just full of booze.

    http://twitter.com/ErichElster
  • BabyJesus 13 Aug 2009 10:04:21 4,412 posts
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    This attack on us is completely unfounded, keep your greasy slimeball lying political commentators to yourself

    Please America, don't forget who raised you. Remember the prodigal son America?;-)

    Anyway this is bloody sickening, the NHS is alot of things, but they do not deny care to anybody...hell we even pay for fat people to have lipo.
  • Deleted user 13 August 2009 10:10:42
    Vice.Destroyer wrote:
    Those guys didn't start it all. But they came up with THE most outrageous untruth.

    Thats hilarious - I thought the Stephen Hawking thing was odd as as far as I know he lives and has always lived in Britain, and therefore presumably hasnt benefitted much from US healthcare.

    It turns out they thought he was American.
  • BabyJesus 13 Aug 2009 10:12:03 4,412 posts
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    PhoenixWolf wrote:
    TheStylishHobo wrote:
    toy_brain wrote:
    RedSparrows wrote:
    I like how the US anti-healthcare ranting has united all manner of British outlooks into a general 'How very dare you'.
    GLOL, though I'm not entirely sure why (might be the Cointreau talking).

    Haha, definitely worth a GLOL :]

    The British are traditionally quiet, but if you dare insult our healthcare system, well you be ready for a very coordinated retort!

    I think Thatcher said the NHS is the closest thing we have to a religion

    Still, the sheer cheek of the Americans. We never said it was perfect, but we damn make sure we treat everyone we can

    She did say that, and its one of the only things She said I agreed with.

    We might bitch and moan about the NHS, buts the one thing that most of us universally love deep down and know we are lucky to have, despite it's problems.

    For every bad experience with the NHS there is most likely numerable times it has saved lives, eased pain etc that doesn't get the press like when the NHS screws up.
  • MrTomFTW Best Moderator, 2016 13 Aug 2009 10:12:47 47,498 posts
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    Paperghost wrote:
    i can't decide if this guy is a troll, a really advanced spambot or just full of booze.

    http://twitter.com/ErichElster
    Here's my favourite one of his:

    @natguest saw ur tweet in the Guardian. damn u r SEXY - 42 minutes ago from web

    /sicks up in mouth a little bit
  • Deleted user 13 August 2009 10:15:18
    I'm afraid I universally dont love the NHS. Overall my experience of it has been pretty shit.

    A few tweaks to make it like the EU model and it would probably be pretty good though. Why in gods name anyone would choose the us model I dont know.
  • Deleted user 13 August 2009 10:18:36
    The thing with the NHS is that we've had it so long it's almost like people don't realise that you could go private if you wanted. And that's kinda proof of how successful it is.
  • Lutz 13 Aug 2009 10:19:10 48,870 posts
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    ruggedtoast wrote:
    Vice.Destroyer wrote:
    Those guys didn't start it all. But they came up with THE most outrageous untruth.

    Thats hilarious - I thought the Stephen Hawking thing was odd as as far as I know he lives and has always lived in Britain, and therefore presumably hasnt benefitted much from US healthcare.

    It turns out they thought he was American.
    I'd love to read/watch some reactions when that was figured out.
  • Xerx3s 13 Aug 2009 10:21:08 23,959 posts
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    Lutz wrote:
    ruggedtoast wrote:
    Vice.Destroyer wrote:
    Those guys didn't start it all. But they came up with THE most outrageous untruth.

    Thats hilarious - I thought the Stephen Hawking thing was odd as as far as I know he lives and has always lived in Britain, and therefore presumably hasnt benefitted much from US healthcare.

    It turns out they thought he was American.
    I'd love to read/watch some reactions when that was figured out.

    Probably just proves their point in their eyes.
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