downscaling on x360 lowers performance? • Gaming • Digital Foundry • Eurogamer.net

redalien 4 Oct 2009 14:20:28 21 posts
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hello everyone!

i thought that this might be exactly the right place to ask a question i had since the day i bought x360 as i believe here are the real people to answer it!

I have an SD PAL 4:3 60hz CRT tv set and my x360 is connected to it using standard Y/R/W connection. But time to time, when i take it to work (i am nightwatch), i have an opportunity to connect it to HD lcd set through HDMI. And the question is - how come that some games on HD have better framerates than on my default SD set, and never the other way? i have a good eye and i am not imagining it (up until feb '09 i was pc user who might be called an enthusiast - overclocking/benchmarking etc, so my eye had had its fare share of frame counting ) is it something to do with x360s trend to upscale certain games to 720p (judging by the article about tekken6) and then downscale or what?

and other thing but on same wagon - how come when i connected to that 16:9 HD lcd set using Y/R/W connection framerate was too smoother than on home's 4:3 SD crt set?

...or it's just my x360 a bustl that's under performing under some certain circumstances?

hoping to hear an answer no matter what that might,
redalien

Retroid Moderator 4 Oct 2009 15:07:37 45,464 posts
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First of all: GOOD GOD, MAN, STOP USING COMPOSITE IT'S SHITE.

Seriously: that lone yellow cable is the worst video connection you could use, barring an RF cable. Get yourself an RGB scart cable (if you're wanting to stick to SD) and you'll notice a big improvement.

But to your original point: interesting. I pesume you have 60hz enabled?

Deleted user 4 October 2009 15:09:12

Retroid the video Nazi

He's right though.

redalien 4 Oct 2009 15:38:55 21 posts
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yeah - i do have 60hz enabled. thinking that it has something to do with connection type?

PS. okey - i might try that SCART solution but first i have to find it somewhere here in retail....

Pirotic Moderator 4 Oct 2009 16:06:14 20,644 posts
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maybe the difference between progressive output and non-progressive is giving you the impression it's smoother via the HDMI cable.

The 360 has a dedicated scaler, so downscaling and upscaling from the native resolution to the screen shouldn't have any impact on the performance of the GPU itself.

redalien 4 Oct 2009 19:23:13 21 posts
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Pirotic wrote:
maybe the difference between progressive output and non-progressive is giving you the impression it's smoother via the HDMI cable.

The 360 has a dedicated scaler, so downscaling and upscaling from the native resolution to the screen shouldn't have any impact on the performance of the GPU itself.

thank you for this explanation - i was simply curious why was that and i will accept any answer as i myself couldn't understand the reason. And judging by the form of the replies - i mean "probably/maybe" - my question is not that popular/is not frequently asked i assume. (which leaves me wondering maybe something is not that good with my specific model or i have oversensitive eyesight (yeah..sure))

oupe 5 Oct 2009 12:09:02 84 posts
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You could read this for more info: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-standard-def-article?page=2

It's also possible that the HDTV you're playing on is using some kind of "frame-rate enhancement" My tv has settings to smooth out the image, this is has an enormous impact on the fluidity of the image.

redalien 5 Oct 2009 18:33:36 21 posts
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oef! wrote:
You could read this for more info: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-standard-def-article?page=2

It's also possible that the HDTV you're playing on is using some kind of "frame-rate enhancement" My tv has settings to smooth out the image, this is has an enormous impact on the fluidity of the image.

thank you very much for that interesting reading you linked - explains a thing or two (but it's 90% about ps3's lack of pal60, where x360 has one - and i am more than positive 60hz is set on as i have games requiring 60hz )

Now your replay ads another piece to my jigsaw puzzle - and now it turns out like this -composite maybe the reason for my home sd setting being unpleasant for my eyes, and hd tv's "fps enhancement" might be a reason for more fluid action at work (now as you mention it i do think it had something like that in options and it was set to on).

PS. maybe some more ideas? (i'm getting intrigued and happy that i posted my question at this forum)

SirScratchalot 5 Oct 2009 19:08:54 7,921 posts
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Does your HD test TV have a 100hz mode maybe? Then it will basically interpolate extra frames giving a smoother image. Could be a simple explanation meaning it's the TV rather then the 360.

redalien 6 Oct 2009 07:04:41 21 posts
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SirScratchalot wrote:
Does your HD test TV have a 100hz mode maybe? Then it will basically interpolate extra frames giving a smoother image. Could be a simple explanation meaning it's the TV rather then the 360.

i am rather sure it doesn't have 100hz ability - as it was bought by the idea the cheaper the better (and therefore i am rather surprised it has nay image enhancements available at all)

Deleted user 6 October 2009 08:34:49

COMPOSITE!?

You might aswell be playing on a PSX.

Retroid Moderator 6 Oct 2009 08:44:36 45,464 posts
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woodnotes wrote:
COMPOSITE!?

You might aswell be playing on a PSX.

Why single out the Japan-only PS2-based PVR?

;P

redalien 10 Oct 2009 21:32:02 21 posts
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cloudskipa wrote:
Yeah it definitely sounds like it could be the HDTV running with some frame enhancement. That alone if cranked to full can make games with 30fps run to 60fps, a massive difference. Thing I don't get is if you have a trained eye why on earth are you using composite for your 360 output? At th very least give it an RGB signal, it will clean up the image a fair bit and prevent any bleeding.

At the end of the day it has to be eiether 3 things:

1) You're playing your 360 at home in 50hz without you realising,

2) HDTV 100hz motion enhancement.

3) Your imagination.

frankly i didn't know SCART would make that big of a difference...and composite is universal - as most of sets i have access to are composite friendly, as some don't even have SCART... (my main work TV for example, as that HD i mentioned is used from time to time only (when i have access to it to be specific) ).

And yes - i do understand that i am not using x360 to it's full potential, but things are as they are - and nevertheless i still enjoy it and glad that i bought one.

And in the end it's all about money, which at this point have a amount possible to spend on xbox - close to "0" XD (but probably will get those 10$ to buy pure SCART cable)

And thank you very much for your input guys - new that this was the place to find an answer (repeating myself once again, but what can i do if it's true)