If the Conservatives gave us a referendum on EU membership... Page 3

  • BabyJesus 4 Nov 2009 15:55:14 4,412 posts
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    Imagine the headlines if a german became EU president.

    "Mr German does what hitler couldn't do!"
  • Xerx3s 4 Nov 2009 16:00:32 23,959 posts
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    otto wrote:
    Reporting on this story has been predictably diabolical. "OH NOES Britain ceases to be a sovereign independent country!?1!%!"

    /speaking to the people who write the drivel that passes for reporting in British newspapers

    1. Have you read the Lisbon Treaty??

    2. Do you understand what sovereignty and independence actually mean in the modern context?

    3. Do you have the first clue about your own history?

    4. Could you kindly fuck off and die you miserable Fleet Street hacks and scumbag rentaquote Tory morons?

    (Just venting on my pain after listening to the Today Programme, boo, sorry for derailing.)

    You should become the president of the EU, it would be far more interesting than some spineless puppet that has no power.
  • Xerx3s 4 Nov 2009 16:03:57 23,959 posts
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    disussedgenius wrote:
    TheSaint wrote:
    Who wouldn't want to be ruled by an unelected President Blair?
    ...

    Is it too late to change my vote. :(

    An alternative would be the dutch puppet, who is worse in every possible way. As far as I can see, blair is definitely the best option. That probably says something about the other candidates though.
  • Xerx3s 4 Nov 2009 16:08:14 23,959 posts
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    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    Yeah they really need to be more transparent, especially with making clear just what each treaty actually does.

    What, like with making it open for anyone to read, by giving short summaries? No, the real problem isn't so much transparency as it is the complete apathy of the populous to actually dig into the information at hand.
  • CosmicFuzz 4 Nov 2009 16:21:38 32,585 posts
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    Xerx3s wrote:
    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    Yeah they really need to be more transparent, especially with making clear just what each treaty actually does.

    What, like with making it open for anyone to read, by giving short summaries? No, the real problem isn't so much transparency as it is the complete apathy of the populous to actually dig into the information at hand.


    To be fair, can you really blame Ireland for voting against Lisbon the first time? The vast majority of the population had no idea what they were voting for and why they should do it. Communication from the EU to individuals in member states is shockingly bad - if they want a treaty passed, they shouldn't expect the general public to have to research themselves what it does. It's just bad politics.
  • Deleted user 4 November 2009 16:24:01
    'Rebuild from the ground up", are you for real?!
  • Khanivor 4 Nov 2009 16:26:10 44,105 posts
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    CosmicFuzz wrote:

    To be fair, can you really blame Ireland for voting against Lisbon the first time? The vast majority of the population had no idea what they were voting for and why they should do it. Communication from the EU to individuals in member states is shockingly bad - if they want a treaty passed, they shouldn't expect the general public to have to research themselves what it does. It's just bad politics.

    To paraphrase a letter I read, "It seems that after two hundred years of protesting, the Irish weren't all that concerned with Home Rule after all". :D
  • BabyJesus 4 Nov 2009 16:32:14 4,412 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    CosmicFuzz wrote:

    To be fair, can you really blame Ireland for voting against Lisbon the first time? The vast majority of the population had no idea what they were voting for and why they should do it. Communication from the EU to individuals in member states is shockingly bad - if they want a treaty passed, they shouldn't expect the general public to have to research themselves what it does. It's just bad politics.

    To paraphrase a letter I read, "It seems that after two hundred years of protesting, the Irish weren't all that concerned with Home Rule after all". :D

    Owww!

    I'd check under your car tomorrow before turning it on, knowing the IRA sympathisers in America.
  • CosmicFuzz 4 Nov 2009 16:34:59 32,585 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    CosmicFuzz wrote:

    To be fair, can you really blame Ireland for voting against Lisbon the first time? The vast majority of the population had no idea what they were voting for and why they should do it. Communication from the EU to individuals in member states is shockingly bad - if they want a treaty passed, they shouldn't expect the general public to have to research themselves what it does. It's just bad politics.

    To paraphrase a letter I read, "It seems that after two hundred years of protesting, the Irish weren't all that concerned with Home Rule after all". :D

    Hahaha :D
  • otto Moderator 4 Nov 2009 16:41:30 49,322 posts
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    That's the most stupid remark I've read in ages, not just stupid, positively misleading. To try to equate modern European governance with English colonial rule in Ireland feeds all the groundless fears of the sceptics and xenophobes. It's clearly deliberately provocative as anyone with a modicum of common sense is well aware of the distinction.
  • Load_2.0 4 Nov 2009 16:43:34 29,782 posts
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    Fuck all that treaty bullshit. We should declare war.

    War is good for the economy and no one is expecting it. We can start by pulling out of Iraq and Afghanastan and annexing Majorca and Lanzarote. Take that Sammy Spanish! pow right in the mush. Sunshine and Black pudding all round.
  • CosmicFuzz 4 Nov 2009 16:45:39 32,585 posts
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    But that's why it's funny! It's meant to be tongue-in-cheek, I doubt it's going to be the new advertising campaign to educate the public or anything :)

    @ otto
  • ploder 4 Nov 2009 16:56:22 243 posts
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    I'd probably vote to leave the EU and have a free trade agreement with them instead (like what we were told the EC was about)
  • WoodenSpoon 4 Nov 2009 17:03:43 12,360 posts
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    But then what happens in the long run when Britain becomes a totally irrelevent backwater?
  • Khanivor 4 Nov 2009 17:06:17 44,105 posts
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    Like Switzerland or Norway?
  • chopsen 4 Nov 2009 17:06:24 20,544 posts
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    What do you mean "when"?
  • WoodenSpoon 4 Nov 2009 17:08:38 12,360 posts
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    Yes and exactly
  • Psychotext 4 Nov 2009 17:10:06 65,469 posts
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    One thing this thread has made clear... hardly anyone knows enough about it to be considered an informed voter on the matter. :)
  • Khanivor 4 Nov 2009 17:13:12 44,105 posts
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    WoodenSpoon wrote:
    Yes and exactly

    Interesting that for 2006, Iceland and Norway take the number two and three spots in GDP per capita with Switzerland coming in at 6. Out of the top 10, three of the eight European countries are not in the EU. Make that the three European countries not in the EU are all in the top 6 of international GDP per capita. A simplistic but strong endorsement for remaining outside the EU.
  • CosmicFuzz 4 Nov 2009 17:14:26 32,585 posts
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    Oh Iceland, how far you have fallen!
  • Syrok Designer, Tarsier Studios 4 Nov 2009 17:15:22 14,104 posts
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    You mean the Iceland that was almost bankrupt a bit ago and the Norway that uses its oil resources wisely? :)
  • chopsen 4 Nov 2009 17:15:28 20,544 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    WoodenSpoon wrote:
    Yes and exactly

    Interesting that for 2006, Iceland and Norway take the number two and three spots in GDP per capita with Switzerland coming in at 6. Out of the top 10, three of the eight European countries are not in the EU.

    *cough*
  • grey_matters 4 Nov 2009 17:15:50 4,779 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Like Switzerland or Norway?

    Surely Britain aspires to more than this? I always thought that the UK was in the EU for 2 main reasons; to be a dominant player on the european stage coupled with a distrust of what those crafty Germans and French would get up to without the UK to keep them in line.
  • Dougs 4 Nov 2009 17:16:00 90,274 posts
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    Not sure Iceland is a valid stat anymore...!
  • Khanivor 4 Nov 2009 17:16:20 44,105 posts
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    2006 are the latest figures on Nationmaster. I'm well aware Iceland has taken a bit of a dip of late, but I don't think it's on its own there :D
  • Khanivor 4 Nov 2009 17:19:43 44,105 posts
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    Here are some estimates for 2009. Iceland still beats the UK...
  • grey_matters 4 Nov 2009 17:28:24 4,779 posts
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    Surely it is a political question more than a financial one?
  • Jeepers 4 Nov 2009 17:28:31 16,576 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Here are some estimates for 2009. Iceland still beats the UK...

    For one year, and then we beat their cold, snow-covered bottoms.
  • Mekanik 4 Nov 2009 18:32:33 4,685 posts
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    grey_matters wrote:
    Surely it is a political question more than a financial one?

    i thought money was more important than politics, at least thats the impression every politician gives.....

    Out of interest, Norway government makes a lot of money because they tax the living shit out of anyone in range and store it away for the future of their nation (talking oil here, the only oil related country who actually looks far enough ahead to know it wont last forever).
  • grey_matters 4 Nov 2009 18:42:24 4,779 posts
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    Mekanik wrote:
    grey_matters wrote:
    Surely it is a political question more than a financial one?

    i thought money was more important than politics, at least thats the impression every politician gives.....

    Out of interest, Norway government makes a lot of money because they tax the living shit out of anyone in range and store it away for the future of their nation (talking oil here, the only oil related country who actually looks far enough ahead to know it wont last forever).

    I meant specifically in relation to the UK being part of the EU. I'm sure the UK could survive just fine in isolation financially but in that case the EU would remain a big player on the world stage whereas the UK would be slightly marginalised. Also, the EU (without the UK) may evolve in a direction that deviates from where the UK would prefer it to be.
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