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Went to take some nice pictures of the kids in the snow yesterday and we were utterly disappointed that our Canon Powershot A95 finally gave up on us. After serving us so well for a good few years it was dropped over the Christmas and now no longer works. So we want to pick up a DSLR budget is around €500 (£450). Really want to know what to look out for and keep in mind this is a starter camera to all intents and purposes. |
New DSLR
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BartonFink 35,268 posts
Seen 2 months ago
Registered 20 years ago -
Have a search for the "sell me on an slr" thread which ostensibly discusses the options available for that budget, in amongst the arguing about whether an SLR is better than a compact... 
(answer: it is) -
BartonFink 35,268 posts
Seen 2 months ago
Registered 20 years agoI noticed that one alright but it's hard to follow with all the arguing
Also this is nothing to do with compact vs DSLR.
Basically I want to find the best body and lens combination for that amount of cash. -
Jeepers 16,616 posts
Seen 9 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoDo you want new or second-hand? Any preference for any brand? Do you have any older lenses that you'd like to use? Do you want wide-angle or zoom capabilities? Can dogs look up? -
BartonFink 35,268 posts
Seen 2 months ago
Registered 20 years agoJeepers wrote:
New preferably.
Do you want new or second-hand?
Nope but I have always bought Canon for some reason.
Any preference for any brand?
Not for many many years, last time I owned a SLR was in the 90s
Do you have any older lenses that you'd like to use?
I guess the basics would do for now perhaps a 50mm standard and a wide angle zoom such as a 24-85mm or 35-135mm lens.
Do you want wide-angle or zoom capabilities?
No
Can dogs look up? -
BartonFink 35,268 posts
Seen 2 months ago
Registered 20 years agoGreat post from otto in the other thread:
otto wrote:
Well this explains what focal length is, but in short, it's a measurement which tells you a lens's field of view. 'Field of view' is how much of the world appears in your image - a wide angle shot includes lots (a whole building), a telephoto shot includes little (a window), as taken from the same spot.
A wide angle lens would be a small number, up to around 28mm. A 'standard' field of view would be 35mm or 50mm (roughly equivalent to a person's actual field of vision). You are then getting into telephoto range - at the wider end, these are called portrait lenses (70mm, 90mm); you then get longer and longer (105mm, 200mm, 300mm).
Right, then you have shutter speed and aperture. Shutter speed is how fast the shutter opens and shuts again to let light through to the sensor. The fast it operates, the less light falls on the sensor, obviously. But, the faster it operates, the more you will be able to freeze motion. So if you had a shutter speed of one second, for example, light would be falling on the sensor for a whole second which is quite a long time when it comes to movement. If you were shooting a moving subject, or holding the camera in your hand, all you'd get would be a blurry image. Shooting at 1/1000s though would stop pretty much anything in motion, and is useful for things like sports.
Aperture is the opening of the lens through which light passes when the shutter opens to fall on the sensor. You can adjust this. The wider the aperture, the more light falls on the sensor, meaning that you can have a higher shutter speed. Conversely, the smaller your aperture, the more time you will need to open your shutter in order to get enough light falling on the sensor.
Confusingly, aperture is measured in what they call 'f stops' and the smaller the number, the wider (or larger) the aperture. So f/1.4 or f/2 would be very wide apertures; f/8 and f/11 would be medium-sized apertures, and f/22 would be a very small aperture.
The thing about aperture is that it greatly affects the quality of your image. A wide aperture allows light from different angles to fall on your sensor and means that you have a shallow depth of field. Depth of field means how much of the image is in focus. You focus on something say 20cm away - a shallow depth of field means that objects closer to and further from the object in focus are blurry (so at 15cm and at 25cm they are not in focus). This can be used for quite interesting artistic effects (for example here is an image I took with a shallow depth of field, to blur the background and focus attention on the glass). Shoot at wide open (f/1.8, f/2/, f/4) to achieve this look.
If on the other hand you want everything to be in focus, choose a smaller aperture (f/11, f/22). This gives much greater depth of field. For example, in this image I used a small aperture to keep everything in focus, both in the foreground and the background.
A "fast" lens is one that has a very wide maximum aperture (so f/1.4, f/1.8, f/2). These are sought after because they allow much more light to fall on the sensor meaning that they can be used in lower light situations without having to resort to a really slow shutter speed. But such lenses are much more expensive and complicated to make, and typically you can't achieve such wide apertures in zoom lenses. That's why prime (non-zoom) lenses are often preferred by photographers.
Now, if you want to know which shutter speed you can safely use without blurring your image, when you're holding the camera in your hand, the rule of thumb is to take the focal length of the lens (see my first paragraph) and multiply that by two. That number is the bottom half of the fraction that gives you the shutter speed at which you can handhold. So for a 35mm lens, you can safely handhold for an image taken at 1/70s (one-seventieth of a second). And the wider your lens, the slower your minimum shutter speed for handheld shots.
The holy grail is always to get as much light onto your sensor as you can so that you can shoot images in darker environments. Another factor is that cheaper lenses can start to lose definition (and light) at the edges when wide open (large aperture), and image quality also degrades at small apertures; this is where really high quality materials and construction count, and why people spend a LOT of money on good lenses. Most lenses have a 'sweet spot' at around f/8 where definition is at a maximum and distortion is at a minimum throughout the image, from the centre to the edges.
Don't know if that makes it any clearer, sorry about the wall o' text. There's bound to be a better explanation on the net somewhere.
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mal 29,326 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 20 years agoIf you've got EF lenses from the 90s they'll still work on the current crop of Canon DSLRs.
I did a post summarising what I could find new for 500 quid, but I'll have to dig it out when I've got more time. Anyway, we decided that you got much more bang for your buck going second hand. I say: get a D80! -
BartonFink 35,268 posts
Seen 2 months ago
Registered 20 years agoCheers if you could find that post it would be stellar. Those lenses are long gone now, sold the lot in the 90s.
Been reading through the other one trying to find the wood among the trees and ottos love of the D70 is apparent.
So far:
The Sony Alpha a330
and Nikon D70
Seem to be standing out. -
Jeepers 16,616 posts
Seen 9 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoA d80 with the kit 18-135mm lens might see you right; that's the set-up I bought some years ago. Whilst I'm not the biggest fan of the lens, it's a great 'learner' piece. That and the 50mmf1.8 kept me more than happy for nearly two years and I'd *guess* that 2nd prices would come in under the £500 you're looking to spend. -
Jeepers 16,616 posts
Seen 9 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoThe d70 is a great camera but - as Mal pointed out - you'll lose a significant amount of brightness in the viewfinder. The d80 is - essentially - an upgraded d70 and might be worth the extra few quid.
NB - I've not used the d70 and pretty much ever d70 owner I've spoken to (or read about) has expressed their love for it.gif)
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BartonFink 35,268 posts
Seen 2 months ago
Registered 20 years agoAny opinions on the three that are currently in stock at Dublin Camera Exchange
Olympus E-420
Nikon D-3000
Canon Eos 1000D -
pistol 13,018 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 19 years agoJeepers wrote:
The d70 is a great camera but - as Mal pointed out - you'll lose a significant amount of brightness in the viewfinder. The d80 is - essentially - an upgraded d70 and might be worth the extra few quid.
NB - I've not used the d70 and pretty much ever d70 owner I've spoken to (or read about) has expressed their love for it
I used to have a D70 and then moved on to a D200 which I still have. I learned a lot with the D70 and it was a great camera, and got some nice shots of my kids in the snow...gif)
I know you said you'd prefer new but you could pick up a used D70 for peanuts if you look around. I bought mine used and it lasted ages and was still going strong when I passed it on. -
BartonFink 35,268 posts
Seen 2 months ago
Registered 20 years agoNah new is not essential just don't want to buy a turkey. Got bitten before buying a second hand telescope. -
Jeepers 16,616 posts
Seen 9 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoBartonFink wrote:
Any opinions on the three that are currently in stock at Dublin Camera Exchange
Olympus E-420
Nikon D-3000
Canon Eos 1000D
I can only comment on the Nikon - for me, I'd go higher-up the Nikon foodchain, but 2nd hand - so that's a d70/80/200 really. -
pistol 13,018 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 19 years agoBartonFink wrote:
Nah new is not essential just don't want to buy a turkey. Got bitten before buying a second hand telescope.
I understand your reluctance but it is a great way of saving yourself a few quid. Just make sure you do your research first. If you're buying from Ebay, take a look at the sellers history, i.e. good rating, have they sold camera kit before, what feedback did they get..You can also get the seller to provide you with the shutter count of the camera as well. -
mal 29,326 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 20 years agoBartonFink wrote:
Cheers if you could find that post it would be stellar.
Found it. Bit waffly I'm afraid as I changed my mind halfway through writing it:
mal wrote
I guess with a 500 quid budget you're looking at the bottom end if you don't want to blow all your budget on the camera body (and trust me, you don't). So that's a Canon D1000 or a Nikon D3000 or a Pentax K-m, an Olympus E-420 or E-450, or a Sony A230. I'm not sure what the Samsung equivalent of the K-m is.
As TT says, it's really much of a muchness which manufacturer you go for. Your main upgrades, if you decide you need them should be spent on lenses and other glassware, and unless you're planning to spend thousands on lenses, all the main manufacturers will have products to suit you.
Which lens you want is a bit more tricky. People shots could mean social shots (in which case you want something in the 30mm range), group portraits (up to 50mm) or individual portraits (even longer). Now you can buy super-zooms which will cover all of these ranges and more, but that's always a compromise. You could also by a 'prime' lens which offers only one focal length and it usually both higher quality while also being cheaper (and smaller). Some on here will try to convince you that's the way to go, and it does have it's benefits. I'd tend to suggest getting a limited zoom which will help you get used to different focal lengths.
That said, I've just done a search for 24-85mm consumer lenses and you'd be blowing your budget by a hundred quid or so if you did that. For 500 quid it looks like you're limited to the kit lenses which tend to be around 18-60mm.
Sticking to primes, Canon do a lovely cheap 50mm which you can get with a D1000 for under 400 quid. Nikon do a sweet little 35mm lens which will work with the bottom-end Nikons for 450 quid with a D3000. Olympus seem to do a 35mm lens which you'll get with a body for under 450 quid too. Sony will do you either a 30mm or a 50mm prime in budget by the looks of it.
Though that little search has shown me how much easier it is to find Canon and Nikon lenses for sale. -
BartonFink 35,268 posts
Seen 2 months ago
Registered 20 years agoCheers mal -
Guys, this is getting silly, we now have two active threads on the front page asking exactly the same question. I'm going to merge this one.
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