Following Shenmue 3 Page 53

  • Baihu1983 26 Jul 2020 20:10:02 12,943 posts
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    The video nailed it.

    Sega need to remake 3 and do it right
  • Your-Mother 26 Jul 2020 20:57:32 5,365 posts
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    release the zack snyder cut
  • Deleted user 26 July 2020 21:04:48
    I absolutely loved it. It was exactly as it would have been. There's obviously a strong case to be made that it should have moved with the times but I found it reassuringly archaic and the pace was fantastic.

    May have helped that I recently played the re releases so was well adjusted to it and I think a lot of the criticisms are valid. But it was exactly what I expected and wanted. Shenmue was so weird I think it would be a disaster to try and modernise it.
  • elstoof 27 Jul 2020 08:32:13 26,221 posts
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    I got about 20 minutes in before I realised it was about 20 years too late for me
  • elstoof 27 Jul 2020 08:32:55 26,221 posts
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    Tbf I bin off most games after 20 minutes anyway, I really should stop buying them
  • Nazo 27 Jul 2020 08:46:31 1,495 posts
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    I agree and disagree. I absolutely didn't want them to modernize it but in some ways I think that's exactly what they tried to do. If they'd released a continuation of the story with S2 gameplay and modern graphics I would have been really delighted. I played through S1 & S2 again on the DC when they announced S3 and then the remasters when they were released so it's not like they'd faded from my memory. Maybe it would have been better if they had because it wouldn't be so obvious how inferior S3 is to them.

    The combat system was awful. At the time I put it down to budget constraints but apparently it was deliberate to make it accessible to newcomers. The level up grind and energy system are obviously designed to slow you down rather than enhance the gameplay.

    The pacing was terrible. S1 & S2 felt like they were unfolding at their own languid pace and that was great. S3 feels like it's blocking you from making progress and wasting your time at every turn and that's just frustrating. Was a single interesting character introduced throughout the whole thing? Everyone significant seemed to exist purely as a waypoint to the next person. The 'single special move to beat the bad guy' quests were diabolical.

    The whole game does basically nothing to progress the story apart from adding a bit of background about the mirrors and Ryo's dad. The ending of S2 was incredible, there's magic in the air, there's a letter from Shenhua's dad that plays into the whole destiny thing and makes it sound like he's been preparing her for this moment and his role is now done. So what do we do in S3? Ignore all that and spend the whole game looking for him.

    It felt like a Shenmue tribute act to me, the first part tried to capture the S1 vibe, the 2nd part S2. They got some of the feel right but they failed to capture what made them special. I think the video was probably right that S3 was meant to reboot the franchise for a modern audience rather than be a real sequel for the fans but that has backfired spectacularly.
  • SolidSCB 27 Jul 2020 11:12:13 13,774 posts
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    It's absolutely fine as a Shenmue game. The food/stamina mechanic was awful but other than that, it's exactly what you would expect.

    The problem lies in the fact that we spent almost twenty years hoping it would be made and it was basically a filler episode. It's stupidity and arrogance on a level I've never quite seen before. This might have been the only shot they ever get at resolving the story and drawing a line under everything that 1&2 laid out, and I honestly couldn't tell you anything new I hadn't already sort of read between the lines and figured out myself anyway. Oh, I guess we learned the plates are hiding treasure? Which directly conflicts the supernatural elements we saw at the end of S2. Great. Cool.
  • Darth_Flibble 27 Jul 2020 16:13:51 4,596 posts
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    The food/stamina mechanic idea is new (and fairly modern) idea for the series and it was awful in the way its was done. I know some were expecting creaky old shenmue game but the fact is it sold so badly I doubt there will be a 4th game.
  • Cappy 28 Jul 2020 09:59:13 14,252 posts
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    Well, Shenmue is just a little bit more dead now.

    The enthusiasm from fans must have been dampened somewhat and with those sales I can't see a publisher stumping up without getting something like ownership of the IP in return.

    So back to Kickstarter then? But now a lot people who wanted the third entry are feeling burned. I just don't see any way back for the series especially now that they've completely changed the combat.
  • waggy79 28 Jul 2020 10:30:23 2,329 posts
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    I know fans wanted it to stay true to the originals but I think it was a mistake. If they had updated the gameplay to something more in line with the Yakuza series I believe it would've appealed to a broader spectrum of gamers.
    I tried playing this again the other day and it felt like pulling teeth, just not fun at all.

    Edited by waggy79 at 11:43:08 28-07-2020
  • Tuffty 28 Jul 2020 11:12:52 4,709 posts
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    Expectations were set for me based on early gameplay footage from the KS demo they released and the fact that Yu Suzuki was asked to rate his game before it came out and he said it was a 7 at best. I wasn't expecting my disappointment to also creep into the story where I felt there would be some payoff but yeah, being in Niaowu and there's nothing so far. Its like being on a string of MMO side quests only its the main narrative thrust. Its little things in the gameplay that irk me too, the stamina system obviously but also like the ball physics in the Lucky Hit boards being so busted, the forklift job only ever being one route you do every time and the constant reminders in Niaowu that you're playing Shenmue 3 with all the branded clothes to buy and kickstarter backers messages and faces.

    I don't think its a terrible game, I think it looks decent considering the budget, the soundtrack is great and there's enough to propel me through it to the end eventually. Its just very slow going. I think there's room to have Shenmue and Yakuza co existing rather than replacing each other, its just the diehards who backed the game like me undoubtedly wanted more from the story and it was a bit of a misstep to not give that. Had there been more momentum, you could forgive the game for its faults but as a distraction from the boring main quests the faults stand out more.
  • Deleted user 28 July 2020 11:36:33
    I'm happy to be talking about the pros and cons of Shenmue 3 in 2020, rather than pining for its existence for nearly 20 years like we all were doing previously.

    As they say on meaningless inspirational Instagram posts, don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
  • Darth_Flibble 28 Jul 2020 16:12:36 4,596 posts
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    The game didn't have to be Yakuza in gameplay style but don't have horrible grinding for money quests that have very little story pay off at the end. I'm not going to play this due to the video linked few posts past as its an shame as liked the games back on dreamcast (at the time they were nothing like them out there)
  • Deleted user 28 July 2020 16:23:10
    What money quests? I don't remember any grinding really.
  • Darth_Flibble 28 Jul 2020 16:42:55 4,596 posts
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    Steve-Perry wrote:
    What money quests? I don't remember any grinding really.
    to buy the wine to learn the move, its in that video
  • SolidSCB 28 Jul 2020 16:48:57 13,774 posts
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    Yeah there were a couple of those in the game. Think there was a move scroll you had to buy in the second area too.
  • Deleted user 28 July 2020 17:06:41
    Darth_Flibble wrote:
    Steve-Perry wrote:
    What money quests? I don't remember any grinding really.
    to buy the wine to learn the move, its in that video
    That really didn't take me very long at all. 'Horrible grinding' is completely overdoing it.

    I've not seen the video, I got about 20 seconds in and it just looked like your average YouTube wanker being hyperbolic and OTT for views.

    Play the game yourself and make your own mind up. It reviewed well enough.

    Edited by Steve-Perry at 17:16:14 28-07-2020
  • Darth_Flibble 28 Jul 2020 17:16:48 4,596 posts
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    The reviews seemed to come from nostalgia from the old games, take away the shenmue setting then the game would of got trashed. I would try the game myself but so many on here say the same thing.

    The YT actually wanted to love the game but couldn't, I don't think it was for "the views" Any time a youtuber criticises a game, they always assume its for the views when a lot of the time its not

    The worst of all, very little of the story progresses
  • Deleted user 28 July 2020 17:25:20
    Well I would take written reviews from experienced and respected games outlets over outrage monkeys on YT anyday. Not saying either is perfect, but clickbait garbage is the lifeblood of the channel. They can be entertaining, but they're mostly not good critical opinion (in MY opinion).

    If it wasn't a Shenmue game, it would have got trashed, is correct, but it's a completely redundant point. It was kickstarted and sold as a Shenmue game, with Shenmue gameplay, made by Yu Suzuki and some of the original Shenmue team.

    The story complaint is fair enough, but I don't see why people are crying about the gameplay. It's exactly the same as the old games. That's what they said it would be right from the start.

    That includes mundane quests, waiting around doing nothing, rubber faced NPCs, daft dialogue, can't walk through a door properly. It was classic Shenmue down to a t, warts and all.

    The combat was no more shit than it was in the old games IMO. The food thing gets a bit annoying, but it's not a big deal.

    Edited by Steve-Perry at 17:28:14 28-07-2020
  • Cappy 28 Jul 2020 17:35:34 14,252 posts
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    "experienced and respected games outlets"

    Haha!

    I'd seen the video prior to it's posting here and have seen various videos by the same guy over the years, he's sincere.

    At this point it's almost a marvel that anybody still believes that somehow 'reviewers' are able to offer a opinion that has any more validity than a random Metacritic or Amazon review. It's more the opposite really, you're far more likely to get an honest and useful opinion away from the "experienced and respected games outlets".
  • SolidSCB 28 Jul 2020 17:38:06 13,774 posts
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    Saving up cash is nothing new in Shenmue. I think the main problem in Shenmue III is that the saving up never lead to any satisfying resolution or major story progression as a reward, so it's more obvious that it's just blatant filler to pad it out.
  • Deleted user 28 July 2020 17:47:31
    @Cappy Being sincere doesn't mean you're good at critical evaluation.

    I didn't say anything about meta-critic or amazon, that's a completely different subject.

    I love user reviews and I seek them out. I use this forum for just that..

    However a good, well written, thoughtful review from a good website can complement that too, and to me, is more useful and trustworthy as critical evaluation than your average 'YouTuber'.
  • Deleted user 28 July 2020 17:50:06
    SolidSCB wrote:
    Saving up cash is nothing new in Shenmue. I think the main problem in Shenmue III is that the saving up never lead to any satisfying resolution or major story progression as a reward, so it's more obvious that it's just blatant filler to pad it out.
    Well they did that too right at the start of Shenmue 2. All my hard earned truck driving money from the first game went up in smoke for a minor bit of story progression (to be introduced to the mad angels I think).

    They've got previous.
  • richarddavies 28 Jul 2020 17:52:27 8,001 posts
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    I've never heard of that youtuber in my life, but I ended up watching it all as it was a very well put together video. He didn't make one negative point where he didn't break down his reasoning why.

    Edited by richarddavies at 18:04:57 28-07-2020
  • Darth_Flibble 28 Jul 2020 18:02:03 4,596 posts
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    richarddavies wrote:
    I've never heard of that youtuber in my life, but I ended up watching it all as it was a very well put together video. He didn't make one negati e point where he didn't break down his reasoning why.
    this - I looked at his other videos are aren't gaming outrage stuff (just animie stuff) just watching is Final Fantasy 15 video now and its spot on so far
  • Nazo 28 Jul 2020 18:05:21 1,495 posts
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    The combat is significantly worse in S3. I'll admit I wasn't particularly good at it in the first 2 games but there were proper fighting game mechanics where you could counter, time attacks to get in proper combos etc. Those just weren't there in S3, it was just random button mashing and at some point it would decide it's given you long enough to input your attack string and execute some moves.

    I think the sparring showed this off perfectly, 2 characters randomly performing attacks while completely ignoring what the other one is doing. Compare that with the cool sparring with Jianmin in S2 where he would dodge or parry all your attacks in a way that looked very skilled and natural, throwing off Ryo's balance and making him look like an amateur.

    The pachinko style gambling obsfucation in S3 is another example of how desperate the game is to waste your time. Why does in rural China do we have to buy tokens, then go to a completely different place to exchange the tokens for prizes, then go to a pawn shop to finally get some money?

    I didn't hate the game but there are so many places they seem to have made deliberate decisions to make the game worse that just leave me baffled.
  • Deleted user 28 July 2020 18:06:50
    I've watched 5 minutes and his main gripe is that it's all out of date in 2019. Fair point.

    But I'd refer to my above point, that's exactly what they said it would be. The whole time. Which is what every review also said. So anyone who bought it expecting anything else, that's on you.
  • richarddavies 28 Jul 2020 18:08:33 8,001 posts
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    yeah I'd suggest watching more. He doesn't really make that point at all. He says it stays close to the formula of the last ones, but does each element worse. Then breaks it all down individually.
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