F1 2010 (Codemasters) Page 3

  • StarchildHypocrethes 11 Aug 2010 12:40:00 32,256 posts
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    If you look at any sports including the ones you mentioned above, there are many elements of each sport that haven't been included due to a combination of difficulty and overall importance. No football games have handballs in them, which is a big rule in the sport. Same with miscarding a score in golf, or the numerous different fouls in the NFL.

    Whilst the safety car is something a lot of us would like the see included, as long as the base game is good I really don't care that much.
  • Harmonica 11 Aug 2010 12:42:51 967 posts
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    This is a first effort type dealie and we'll no doubt see those kind of additions in future years. I just personally can't wait to play a F1 game with proper licenses, circuits and drivers, and a nice graphics engine to experience it in. If it straddles the sim or arcade divide at all well than that's a bonus - as are the cool features they're throwing in such as the paddock experience with the press, and team rivalries, upgrades to the car, etc.
  • brseg 11 Aug 2010 12:46:35 679 posts
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    Hmm, I think my main tactic might be to deliberately cause some crashes to get the safety car out :) Hang on, Renault actually did this, didnt they, lol!.
    It'll be interesting if they do cut out certain parts of the sport. I assume we have to use both sets of tires in a race etc. Issues with fuel consumption? I guess they cut that out. Pit crew not fixing your wheel on properly...
  • SomaticSense 11 Aug 2010 12:51:56 15,062 posts
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    Harmonica wrote:
    This is a first effort type dealie

    It's just not.

    It might be Codies first F1 game, but they are more experienced in racing sims than any one else. It's so far from a 'first effort', that actually regressing from features included in games from their racing game back catalogue on much inferior console tech is pretty embarrassing.

    StarchildHypocrethes wrote:No football games have handballs in them

    I remember a couple of footy games that have had this (admittedly poorly implemented though)

    Same with miscarding a score in golf

    Not in any way the same as a safety car

    or the numerous different fouls in the NFL.

    Have you played a recent NFL game? Or an NHL or NBA one? They have all the many different types of fouls. NHL and NBA games have even had these for well over a decade now. NBA 2K10 even has kick balls.
  • bzzct 11 Aug 2010 12:55:24 1,725 posts
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    SomaticSense wrote:
    An F1 game without flag penalties or safety cars, would be like FIFA 11 without red or yellow cards and free kicks or penalties. It's unthinkable, and could never be legitimately called a sim of the sport.
    It wouldn't be at all - if there were no free kicks/penalties/cards in a football game, it would affect the way you play - i.e. it would encourage fouling. Not having safety cars/red cars in doesn't affect the way you play - they're not punishments/deterrents - they're logistical devices required when racing in the real world.

    I agree it would be nice to have them, and if you feel this particularly strongly then fair enough, but let's not overstate their objective role in the sport by claiming they're equivalent to cards etc in football games.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 11 Aug 2010 12:56:53 32,256 posts
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    I have indeed and there are loads of fouls that aren't included in Madden, mainly because it would be a pain in the arse to implement them, plus they'd get annoying for people trying to play the game. It should also be noted that those that are included are also quite dodgy in their implementation.

    Whilst I can understand that you want the safety car in there, as far as I'm concerned it's omission isn't isn't a huge deal and doesn't affect the 'F1ness' of the game in my eyes.

    But hey, opinions and all that jazz.
  • brseg 11 Aug 2010 13:00:27 679 posts
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    I think there is a difference between this and, say, penalties in a football game. Generally, the player's actions cause those, whilst in f1 its just bloody random (some guy crashes the other side of the circuit, and the marshals cant clear it).
  • SomaticSense 11 Aug 2010 13:03:36 15,062 posts
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    I'm just massively anal and obsessive in my F1 fan-ness. People like me must really drive them crazy.

    All I can see is that they clearly can do it, so why not make it as perfect a representative of the sport as they can? Surely after all this time the sport deserves it?

    But then like I have said previously, I admit I'm a pretty big F1 geek...
  • SomaticSense 11 Aug 2010 13:04:52 15,062 posts
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    brseg wrote:
    I think there is a difference between this and, say, penalties in a football game. Generally, the player's actions cause those, whilst in f1 its just bloody random (some guy crashes the other side of the circuit, and the marshals cant clear it).

    But it can massively affect the outcome of the race. In that respect, it's every bit as important, as well as making the whole game more interesting and eventful as a result.
  • bzzct 11 Aug 2010 13:07:26 1,725 posts
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    Well they clearly have a reason - they're not just going to have decided they can't be arsed. Just because it's not immediately obvious they're not going to have decided on a whim.

    Could even just be a timing issue, they can't get it done well enough without pushing back the release date (which is obviously going to be a no-no considering the 2010 licence).
  • brseg 11 Aug 2010 13:08:48 679 posts
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    OK, but the equivalent in football would be your keeper getting sent off and totally buggering-up your match. I dont think it can happen in Fifa (can it?!).

    Safety car causes havoc to the pit stop strategy too, quite hard to get your head around in real F1 let alone a game. I know, I know, you want it *all* in a sim ;)
    Interesting thread - we'll see whats in/out.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 11 Aug 2010 13:12:08 32,256 posts
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    If you think about the chaos that safety cars cause with strategy; panicked pitstops, cars being woefully out of place with some being let by and others not, everyone having to stay behind and not overtake anyone, the rule about keeping within a certain distance of the car infront, the leader trying to back everyone up; there are a lot of variables that would need to be taken into account to include it in the game.

    Itís probably very complex for something that isnít that important to the overall race experience.
  • bzzct 11 Aug 2010 13:12:24 1,725 posts
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    SomaticSense wrote:
    brseg wrote:
    I think there is a difference between this and, say, penalties in a football game. Generally, the player's actions cause those, whilst in f1 its just bloody random (some guy crashes the other side of the circuit, and the marshals cant clear it).

    But it can massively affect the outcome of the race. In that respect, it's every bit as important, as well as making the whole game more interesting and eventful as a result.
    It's not AS important. Yes safety cars play a big part in some races, but you're just making yourself look silly by claiming it is equally relevant as something that happens tens of times in every single football match, and would directly affect the style of play every minute of the game if it wasn't included.

    Most of the time, when driving round the track in practice/qualifying/the race, whether or not a safety car function exists makes no difference. Yes it would be nice for it to be there to play it's part in certain races, but if something in the development has to be sacrificed, then I think it's a reasonable shout.
  • MontyBrewster 11 Aug 2010 13:12:50 253 posts
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    The football equivalent is if someone breaks a leg or something and the game's held up for 5/10 mins so the medical people can do their thing.

    The big difference being the restarts have a big affect in a motor race, compared to a drop ball in football.

    There's nothing more boring than driving behind the pace car for laps on end.
  • bzzct 11 Aug 2010 13:14:20 1,725 posts
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    StarchildHypocrethes wrote:
    If you think about the chaos that safety cars cause with strategy; panicked pitstops, cars being woefully out of place with some being let by and others not, everyone having to stay behind and not overtake anyone, the rule about keeping within a certain distance of the car infront, the leader trying to back everyone up; there are a lot of variables that would need to be taken into account to include it in the game.

    Itís probably very complex for something that isnít that important to the overall race experience.
    And not only the complications of when the car is out - there'd be balancing issues on it coming out in the first place. There's no point spending ages developing it if appropriate crashes only occur once in a blue moon in-game, and it would bugger the whole thing up if it came out five times in every single race.
  • bzzct 11 Aug 2010 13:16:41 1,725 posts
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    There's also the issue of how much development time to spend versus how many players will use the function. An awful lot of people will play 3/5/10 etc lap races - having a safety car come out for 2/3+ laps in such a race would be ridiculous. You could easily have as much/more safety car period than racing.
  • Harmonica 12 Aug 2010 01:09:00 967 posts
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    SomaticSense wrote:
    Harmonica wrote:
    This is a first effort type dealie

    It's just not.

    It might be Codies first F1 game, but they are more experienced in racing sims than any one else. It's so far from a 'first effort', that actually regressing from features included in games from their racing game back catalogue on much inferior console tech is pretty embarrassing.

    Codies obviously have some pedigree from the old days with Colin McRae, but nothing too recent (all dull/rubbish in my opinion). The dev team have mixture of experience with the racing genre from little to none to a lot.

    Essentially the choice for Codies was to kill themselves trying to squeeze every little nth degree into the game, and end up with something which wasn't polished or balanced or targeted towards the mix of consumers, or, as they have done, they've gone for making a solid core vision of an F1 game in the current climate.

    Everyone who has played the game say that it perfectly represents the feel of F1 with a lot of the incidental details, and that it's fun to play. In future years we will get all the additional gubbins, by which I mean, them going through the rulebook and adding things that you might see in 1 race per season like black flags.
  • Rusty_M 12 Aug 2010 09:07:13 6,964 posts
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    I'd love to see safety cars and (to a lesser extent) red flags. I like codies' old race driver games where flag and damage rules were switchable. I see nothing wrong with making a very customisable sim experience. One thing I don't want in the game, though, is my team being deducted points for illegal tech or secret stealing. I think that's something that's not controlled by the driver that we can do without.

    Do you think they'll include "subtle" team orders as have been so evident lately?
  • shamblemonkee 12 Aug 2010 09:16:30 17,962 posts
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    I want ot be able ot steal webbers front wing if i play as Vettel :)
  • Harmonica 12 Aug 2010 23:58:14 967 posts
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    I'll be 'stealing' Alonso's front wing during the race.
  • DeltaBravoNiner 13 Aug 2010 13:43:22 647 posts
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    Harmonica wrote:
    I'll be 'stealing' Alonso's front wing during the race.

    he wont like that one little bit... huffy git that he is!

    I am desperately looking forward to this. I don't have blur to begin comparison, but how does 20 cars on-line multiplayer in blur handle - especially for someone with a rural average to slow ADSL Internets connection.

    Would there be excessive lag issues with having to render so many cars? or does blur generally cope ok with this?

    12 will still be good - but 20 would have been ace!
  • shamblemonkee 13 Aug 2010 13:49:53 17,962 posts
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    Blur runs fine, sometimes a little bit of warping at the start of the raec, but otherwise it's silky smooth from a client perspective. I do suspect that there's a helthy amount of compensation being performed which is only exposed by occasional weapon lag and finishing order changes if super close.
  • SomaticSense 13 Aug 2010 13:54:54 15,062 posts
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    shamblemonkee wrote:
    Blur runs fine, sometimes a little bit of warping at the start of the raec, but otherwise it's silky smooth from a client perspective. I do suspect that there's a helthy amount of compensation being performed which is only exposed by occasional weapon lag and finishing order changes if super close.

    Bizarre made a few concessions with the graphics to compensate though. Namely detailing and whatnot, function over form and all that.

    I'm not bothered with how many cars are racing at one time in MP though, as I'm more interested in the SP career mode. As long as there are 24 cars on the grid in the offline modes, I'm not too fussed. Besides, there aren't too many racing games nowadays that stretch past 8 cars online anyway.
  • DeltaBravoNiner 13 Aug 2010 14:52:21 647 posts
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    SomaticSense wrote: As long as there are 24 cars on the grid in the offline modes, I'm not too fussed.

    hmm - good point. I had just assumed there would be.

    To hijack the football comparisons of earlier any less than a full grid would indeed be like FIFA 11 with a limit of 5 a side...

    I think I'll be avoiding it if not a full grid. :S
  • Deleted user 16 August 2010 13:41:13
    Release date is 24th September in the UK and 2 days earlier in America.

    Gameplay trailer:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULmULcvVY-A&feature=player_embedded
  • Spunkweazle 16 Aug 2010 13:50:50 479 posts
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    Why two days earier for the US, why piss off 99% of your customer base to sell 3 copies a little bit early
  • StarchildHypocrethes 16 Aug 2010 13:53:57 32,256 posts
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    Because all games bar the big 'global launch' ones are released earlier in the week in the US. Shouldn't really piss anyone off considering it's always happened.
  • Deleted user 16 August 2010 13:54:09
    :/

    Games always come out earlier in the week in America, that's all.
  • Deleted user 16 August 2010 13:54:37
    /typing one-handed :p
  • StarchildHypocrethes 16 Aug 2010 13:58:11 32,256 posts
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    He deserved to be told twice :)
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