Champions League Page 867

  • Armoured_Bear 8 Mar 2018 10:05:53 22,576 posts
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    HarryPalmer wrote:
    Of course, Arsenal came close to winning the CL - at their absolute peak! They were already a beast of a team at that point, and it was basically downhill from there - they won nothing from that point until the recent FA cup runs. So how did that experience tangibly benefit them as a team? I'd argue it had the reverse effect.

    I'm really not suggesting that experience at this level isn't really important. All I'm saying is framing the defeat as someone positive, brave, admirable, is a little off to me. Spurs can build on this, but it's not a given.
    The continued experience and improvement gradually got them to a final, by then the team wasn't as young and had to be rebuilt afterwards.

    Spurs are hoping that their continuation will get them to a CL Final, they are a young side gradually improving who surprised everyone in the CL this year.

    It's not rocket science.
  • QotSAfan 8 Mar 2018 10:08:15 2,316 posts
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    Meh. Spurs bottled it. They came out of a group were Real Madrid and Dortmund were in the worst form they have been in about a decade. Their first real test and they blow their advantage in the space of 5 minutes. Embarrassingly fragile mentality, same old Spurs. When the players and manager leave in a year or two's time, Spurs fans can look back at their 'put them under pressure' phase with fond memories while they go back to rightful place in midtable.
  • HarryPalmer 8 Mar 2018 10:09:46 5,486 posts
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    My point is this: Spurs lost the tie, they should have won the tie. They had it within reach and then it slipped. No real shame in that although this has happened to them time and time again - it is their USP if you will. I find it a little hard to accept that this is a valuable learning experience for them when it happens so frequently.

    Of course, they are improving, and good luck to them. They'll be in the CL next season and I look forward to seeing how they capitalise on this defeat. Nothing more to say about it really.
  • GarlVinland 8 Mar 2018 10:10:15 3,190 posts
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    Let's not forget that Man City are a young team too and if any British team stands a chance of winning the CL anytime in the next 5 yrs it will be them.

    Edited by GarlVinland at 10:11:06 08-03-2018
  • HarryPalmer 8 Mar 2018 10:17:01 5,486 posts
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    @Armoured_Bear Ok I'll bite - Spurs are nowhere near the level Arsenal where at when they started CL football. It's not even close - to compare the two teams is frankly ridiculous at this point. Spurs are doing well, and yes they want to build on this season, but getting knocked out isn't some significant milestone towards a glorious future, its the opposite.
  • Armoured_Bear 8 Mar 2018 10:18:24 22,576 posts
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    HarryPalmer wrote:
    @Armoured_Bear Ok I'll bite - Spurs are nowhere near the level Arsenal where at when they started CL football. It's not even close - to compare the two teams is frankly ridiculous at this point. Spurs are doing well, and yes they want to build on this season, but getting knocked out isn't some significant milestone towards a glorious future, its the opposite.
    You know this, how?
  • Armoured_Bear 8 Mar 2018 10:19:13 22,576 posts
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    GarlVinland wrote:
    Let's not forget that Man City are a young team too and if any British team stands a chance of winning the CL anytime in the next 5 yrs it will be them.
    Yes, which cost 500 Gajillion pounds.
  • HarryPalmer 8 Mar 2018 10:26:02 5,486 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    HarryPalmer wrote:
    @Armoured_Bear Ok I'll bite - Spurs are nowhere near the level Arsenal where at when they started CL football. It's not even close - to compare the two teams is frankly ridiculous at this point. Spurs are doing well, and yes they want to build on this season, but getting knocked out isn't some significant milestone towards a glorious future, its the opposite.
    You know this, how?
    I could ask you how you know getting defeated IS a milestone to success. I would argue that actually winning trophies is more of a signifier of future success. They will gain experience, but is that all they need to succeed at the elite European level? Teams that win the CL are also winning their domestic competitions, with Liverpool being literally the only exception. Spurs a not doing that.
  • Armoured_Bear 8 Mar 2018 10:32:26 22,576 posts
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    HarryPalmer wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    HarryPalmer wrote:
    @Armoured_Bear Ok I'll bite - Spurs are nowhere near the level Arsenal where at when they started CL football. It's not even close - to compare the two teams is frankly ridiculous at this point. Spurs are doing well, and yes they want to build on this season, but getting knocked out isn't some significant milestone towards a glorious future, its the opposite.
    You know this, how?
    I could ask you how you know getting defeated IS a milestone to success. I would argue that actually winning trophies is more of a signifier of future success. They will gain experience, but is that all they need to succeed at the elite European level? Teams that win the CL are also winning their domestic competitions, with Liverpool being literally the only exception. Spurs a not doing that.
    I'm not saying it is, I do think Spurs fans, thinking "Well, we have a young side, playing good football, we won a tough group and narrowly lost to last year's finalists, we're on the right track. I'm happy" is perfectly reasonable.

    TBH the sooner the CL changes into the invite-only private members club of the 20 richest clubs playing each other to death the better.
    Let the rest of us have a chance at a decent European competition for everyone.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 8 Mar 2018 11:10:32 11,468 posts
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    QotSAfan wrote:
    Meh. Spurs bottled it. They came out of a group were Real Madrid and Dortmund were in the worst form they have been in about a decade. Their first real test and they blow their advantage in the space of 5 minutes. Embarrassingly fragile mentality, same old Spurs. When the players and manager leave in a year or two's time, Spurs fans can look back at their 'put them under pressure' phase with fond memories while they go back to rightful place in midtable.
    I get this attitude. When we were shite and Arsenal were good, their losses were one of my few pleasures in football. Again, Iím just enjoying it finally being reversed.

    Donít fret too much. These slumps tend not to last much longer than 20 years or so. Chin up mate.
  • HarryPalmer 8 Mar 2018 11:22:09 5,486 posts
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    B.A.N.T.E.R

    Edited by HarryPalmer at 11:22:31 08-03-2018
  • Huggybear 8 Mar 2018 14:50:29 1,474 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:

    I'm not saying it is, I do think Spurs fans, thinking "Well, we have a young side, playing good football, we won a tough group and narrowly lost to last year's finalists, we're on the right track. I'm happy" is perfectly reasonable.
    It might be reasonable, but it's naive.

    What do you think is going to happen when at the end of the season Spurs once again wins nothing, and the players look at their old friend Kyle Walker lifting the PL trophy and maybe even the CL trophy, having tripled his wages?

    Is it "Once more unto the breach!" or "Fuck this, I want some of that too"?

    Spurs either needed to start winning trophies, or they need to start paying their best players competitive wages, which they can't afford. Preferably both.
  • The-Bodybuilder 8 Mar 2018 16:55:46 17,226 posts
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    HarryPalmer wrote:
    Spurs messed up last night - they were in a great position and they blew it. Not sure what they would learn from that that they shouldn't already know, seeing that it has happened repeatedly to them over the years.

    Not meant as a jibe, I just don't really see any positives from that result.
    It doesn't even have to be a tactical learning thing, it could be a case of confidence.

    It's similar to Monaco's first run. They learnt not on a tactical level, but in terms of confidence it made them realise that they really were the shit. They used that confidence to carry them into the league the next season and the QF of the CL.

    As good as Spurs were, you could argue they played within themselves a bit due to the occasion and doubt. There's every chance that given if they were to play Juve twice again next week, they would blow them away due to the confidence they've received.
  • Dougs 8 Mar 2018 16:57:53 85,726 posts
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    Or not, if their take away from the game was that they crumbled. You could say it could go either way...
  • The-Bodybuilder 8 Mar 2018 16:58:31 17,226 posts
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    HarryPalmer wrote:
    that could just as easily instill some weakness into their mindset
    We're not talking about a Wenger-led Arsenal here, heh.
  • The-Bodybuilder 8 Mar 2018 17:03:11 17,226 posts
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    HarryPalmer wrote:
    Arsenal have played more CL games than perhaps Spurs ever will. Obviously, the players benefit from this, but what good has it actually done in terms of trophies/success?
    If you use us as an example, what that means is that Spurs slowly got further and further in the EL as we did in the Europa (did Spurs get to the EL final?) then they'll get into the CL as they have, muddle through the group stages at first then early exit as they have, go a bit further and scalp some tough teams as they miss out due to naivety as they did yesterday, be considered a dark horse at the next one, with a good chance of making it to the finals as we did.

    They'll also choke, Poch will spend too long at the club and they'll slowly decline. Or maybe not and they'll in fact fulfill their potential.
  • The-Bodybuilder 8 Mar 2018 17:06:17 17,226 posts
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    QotSAfan wrote:
    Meh. Spurs bottled it. They came out of a group were Real Madrid and Dortmund were in the worst form they have been in about a decade.
    1. Nobody was saying that when they were about to play them.
    2. That's not even the worst form of Madrid
    3. DEFINITELY not the worst form of Dortmund.
  • The-Bodybuilder 8 Mar 2018 17:08:09 17,226 posts
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    HarryPalmer wrote:
    No real shame in that although this has happened to them time and time again - it is their USP if you will.
    Sounds like us till we win the FA Cup. Things are habits until they stop being habits.

    I just find it odd that they're being labelled as chokers because they lost to the team that has been Runner's Up 2 out of 3 years.
  • The-Bodybuilder 8 Mar 2018 17:10:16 17,226 posts
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    HarryPalmer wrote:
    @Armoured_Bear but getting knocked out isn't some significant milestone towards a glorious future, its the opposite.
    Germany would disagree, who's young team slowly lost out but got better each year till they won the CL.

    Heck, that doesn't even apply to Monaco of recent years. Or Dortmund when they got better each year to get to the CL final.
  • FWB 8 Mar 2018 17:15:11 54,669 posts
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    It's blindingly obvious that Spurs have got better.
  • DakeyrasUK 8 Mar 2018 17:15:58 1,676 posts
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    I have to say I don't buy into the patronising tone of the media that this is a lesson to be learned gor spurs.

    They had the game in their hands. Lost concentration for 5 minutes and lost... it happens in football. They will be well aware if that anyhow. Not sure what they are supposed to have learned? Don't lose concentration in a game of football because it can cause you to lose? Pretty sure all teams know that...
  • You-can-call-me-kal 8 Mar 2018 17:50:10 11,468 posts
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    I don't see it has patronising to say Spurs can learn from this experience. We can and hopefully we will, just like we did from last year's experience.

    Anyone that watched the game could see the many ways in which Juve used their experience to get over the line. The control of pace and play, knowing when to get carded to stop dangerous attacks, time-wasting, staggered substitutions to confuse etc etc. I don't mean to suggest they were cynical, it's just the game, but it was a masterful display, and there's plenty to learn from it.
  • H1ggyLTD 8 Mar 2018 17:53:10 9,440 posts
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    So you're going to learn how to cheat even more.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 8 Mar 2018 17:54:35 11,468 posts
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    Apparently it's only cheating when we do it, but yes.
  • QotSAfan 8 Mar 2018 18:40:21 2,316 posts
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    @You-can-call-me-kal I honestly don't care too much about Spurs. It's just that if this was Liverpool, this thread would be full of people lapping it up and saying they've bottled it. But Spurs get off because they are an up-and-coming team. But they've been doing that for the past three or four seasons and any time they have had a chance of silverware, they have fluffed it. Not even a league cup trophy to show for it and they are limited in the amount of wages they can pay. Arsenal fans have been here before.
  • QotSAfan 8 Mar 2018 18:43:33 2,316 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    QotSAfan wrote:
    Meh. Spurs bottled it. They came out of a group were Real Madrid and Dortmund were in the worst form they have been in about a decade.
    1. Nobody was saying that when they were about to play them.
    2. That's not even the worst form of Madrid
    3. DEFINITELY not the worst form of Dortmund.
    Come on, Bosz's Dortmund were the most useless they've been since 2008, easyily. 33% win percentage! Same with that early season form of Real Madrid. Ronaldo had a 3% conversion rate around that time or something. Nobody was saying that when they were about to play them because big teams generally don't have such huge dips but looking back, its clear to see the trends.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 8 Mar 2018 18:54:01 14,292 posts
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    BLOOOOODY WEEEEENNNNNNGEEERRRRRR
  • Frogofdoom 8 Mar 2018 19:17:40 8,502 posts
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    Probably because the Liverpool fans on here act in a different manner to the spurs fans for the most part. Which is why they will get more shit.
  • reddevil93 8 Mar 2018 19:21:56 14,463 posts
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  • You-can-call-me-kal 8 Mar 2018 20:55:49 11,468 posts
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    QotSAfan wrote:
    @You-can-call-me-kal I honestly don't care too much about Spurs. It's just that if this was Liverpool, this thread would be full of people lapping it up and saying they've bottled it. But Spurs get off because they are an up-and-coming team. But they've been doing that for the past three or four seasons and any time they have had a chance of silverware, they have fluffed it. Not even a league cup trophy to show for it and they are limited in the amount of wages they can pay. Arsenal fans have been here before.
    This thread is literally pretty much entirely people saying Spurs have bottled it. Itís a somewhat laughable criticism from Arsenal and Liverpool fans alike, but there it is.
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