| From a conveyancing point of view, new builds are slightly more complicated apparently (my sister works for a solicitor) So yes, worth spending a bit of money in this area. |
House negotiating advice • Page 2
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mrpon 37,367 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 15 years ago -
Mike_Hunt wrote:
You write him a letter containing your offer and specifying the conditions of your offer, and if he accepts it you seek acceptance in writing; and yes, have a conveyancing solicitor lined up and copy him/her in on everything.
Actually, while I'm thinking about it. If we want him to include a garage in the house sale (and increase our offer accordingly). How the hell can we hold him to that?
Do we need to speak to a solicitor and get them to write something in to the terms of sale? Can we withhold some money (say £15k) until the garage is completed? Will the mortgage company be ok with something like that? It just sounds complicated, but in an ideal world I'd like it to work that way as the mortgage company will effectively be loaning us the money for the garage, rather than us having to find £15k after we've bought the house (which will be nigh on impossible I should think!).
[MH] -
We had one house purchase that fell through; we backed out because of details that came to light during our solicitor's research into the planning status and small print relating to the house, which was a 1980s build. Although it cost us money (because we had to pay the solicitor for the conveyancing work she'd already done) it was definitely worth it in the long run. Much greater peace of mind with this current purchase knowing she'd done a good thorough job the first time round. They do tend to pick up on things that one would miss without having that experience. -
Mike_Hunt 23,524 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 19 years agomrpon wrote:
Technically it's not a new build it's a refurb of an old barn. Essentially it's been gutted, but technically not a new build. However, I think we'll pay the £400/500 premium and go with a local solicitor.
From a conveyancing point of view, new builds are slightly more complicated apparently (my sister works for a solicitor) So yes, worth spending a bit of money in this area.
[MH] -
Mike_Hunt 23,524 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 19 years agootto wrote:
You write him a letter containing your offer and specifying the conditions of your offer, and if he accepts it you seek acceptance in writing; and yes, have a conveyancing solicitor lined up and copy him/her in on everything.
But, what's his incentive to finish in a timely manner or at all if he's been paid in advance?
[MH] -
mrpon 37,367 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 15 years agoAh I see. My developer was trying to fleece me for £300 a year ground rent as it's leasehold tenure. According to my solicitor he's legally not allowed to do that as the legal limit is £150.
This is the good bit. My solicitor is the only one who has highlighted this and the developer has a good hundred or so properties on my development.
I'm tempted to go door knocking! -
His incentive is the contract he's signed and your threat of legal action should he renege on his contract. But talk to your solicitor who would be able to advise on whether some payment can be held in reserve pending completion of the build; perhaps you can buy the house first followed by the garage at a later date. You really need to get legal advice. -
Densil 322 posts
Seen 10 years ago
Registered 15 years agoAye, this,
silentbob wrote:
I'l be honest, if you really do want it, go in with a single final offer again emphasising your strong buyers position and your budget constraints. As long as you're happy with the price you're paying, then all this 'ooooh must haggle' stuff doesn't really matter.
Each £1000 on the mortgage is worth about £6 a month or thereabouts. Its just not worth haggling for the sake of a few quid each month (unless you're buying a house for £500K or suchlike in which case just buy a cheaper house and don't be an ungrateful fecker)..gif)
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Densil & bob speak good -
Don't forget, your mortgage provider will insist on a survey to assess the real market value of the house. If that comes in much lower than the price you've agreed on then that gives you an opportunity to back out or possibly renegotiate. You're not committed until you exchange contracts, which can be a long way down the line. -
Try and find out about the seller. Divorce or death means they want to sell quick and you can sqeeze 'em loads....
Its okay. its just business. -
mrpon 37,367 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 15 years agoYou haven't mentioned it, but I presume you have some deposit money Mike? What LTV have you been quoted out of interest? -
Mike_Hunt 23,524 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 19 years agoDensil wrote:
Oh yeah, I agree. We're not trying to simply save some cash here. We just want to pay what we can afford.
Aye, this,
silentbob wrote:
I'l be honest, if you really do want it, go in with a single final offer again emphasising your strong buyers position and your budget constraints. As long as you're happy with the price you're paying, then all this 'ooooh must haggle' stuff doesn't really matter.
Each £1000 on the mortgage is worth about £6 a month or thereabouts. Its just not worth haggling for the sake of a few quid each month (unless you're buying a house for £500K or suchlike in which case just buy a cheaper house and don't be an ungrateful fecker).
I think you may be right with the go straight in with your maximum price and don't budge (because you can't) angle.
I'll sleep on it and let you know how it goes.
Otto - thanks for the info. My only concern about contracts is he's a big developer with his own solicitor, and I don't fancy getting into a legal battle with him. I'd like to state that I've no reason to think he'd renege, but still I'd like some protection. We're going to instruct a solicitor tomorrow (to give our purchasers peace of mind that things are moving), and I'll ask them for advice then. Thanks.
[MH] -
Mike_Hunt 23,524 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 19 years agootto wrote:
Good point. I don't think it will (I don't hold these 'drive by' surveys in much regard to be honest), but still, it's assurance that the lender believes it's at least worth what we're willing to pay.
Don't forget, your mortgage provider will insist on a survey to assess the real market value of the house. If that comes in much lower than the price you've agreed on then that gives you an opportunity to back out or possibly renegotiate. You're not committed until you exchange contracts, which can be a long way down the line.
[MH] -
Mike_Hunt 23,524 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 19 years agomrpon wrote:
We're looking at 75% easily, but could possibly push to 65% if it goes for the right price.
You haven't mentioned it, but I presume you have some deposit money Mike? What LTV have you been quoted out of interest?
Mortage rates are slightly better than what we're currently on, which is nice. They're around 4.8% IIRC.
Mortgage provider is First Direct.
[MH] -
Mike_Hunt 23,524 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 19 years agoOh - and can I just say, thanks for all the help and advice everyone. I really appreciate it, and I really miss you guys. I wish I had as mush free time as I did a few years back and could spend more time on here.
/sniffs
[MH] -
mrpon 37,367 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 15 years agoThose rates sound quite high to me, I was quoted 3.75% a month ago by Natwest for an Offset. With that meaty deposit you could demand a fairly decent rate I would imagine. -
The-Old-Bill 5,101 posts
Seen 11 years ago
Registered 17 years agoGood luck, boss. -
Mike_Hunt 23,524 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 19 years agomrpon wrote:
It doesn't seem that bad for a 5 year fixed rate with offset (according to a quick search on moneysupermarket). It looks like the deal we've got is actually 4.59%.
Those rates sound quite high to me, I was quoted 3.75% a month ago by Natwest for an Offset. With that meaty deposit you could demand a fairly decent rate I would imagine.
edit: Cheers Bill. How's things? IIRC last time we met we were sneaking you into pubs! Hope all is well.
[MH] -
I've got a question or two about housing developments too.
We live in a 4 bedroom bungalow which is located on a considerable amount of land. Based on neighbouring bungalows, I reckon we have enough land to build 4/5 similar houses with gardens each were ours to be demolished.
We're looking into getting planning permission for this so that when we sell our house, if we've got permission, this will allow us to sell for a lot more than we would ordinarily.
1) Is this likely to increase the value by much?
2) Am I in for a world of pain and expense trying to achieve this.
Had the first meeting with the local duty planner today and he said he sees no reason why it's not feasible and sees no stumbling blocks other than access - the adjacent road is a single dirt track and our private drive is only a single car width wide. And there's also a concern about the giant tree we have at the bottom of our garden that would probably have to be pulled down. -
mrpon 37,367 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 15 years agoI'd wager you'd add 200k to your value by having accepted planning permission in place. And then suggest you go down the auction route when selling. -
Densil 322 posts
Seen 10 years ago
Registered 15 years ago@HairyArse
1) It is likely to increase the value.
2) You are not entering a world of pain necessarily, you have taken the best step anyone could make in speaking with the duty officer in the first instance.
Your next move would be to apply for what's known as a 'Pre-Planning Enquiry'. This would involve putting together a rough application comprising of site location plan, site plan showing house sizes/positions and access off the road and a draft 'Design and Access Statement'. To get this done by a professional would cost you anything from about £400 up to £2000 depending on who you got to do it ie a one man band up to a an Architect working for a commercial Architects Practice. If you want to educate yourself you could actually do it yourself, just needs plenty of research. The Pre-Planning Enquires Fee is £150 payable payable to the Local Authority. Following this Pre-App Enq you would get a detailed response from the Planning Department and ultimately an in principle yes or no and the reasons behind it.
You then use this response to gauge whether it is then worth putting in a Full Planning Application and what other information the Planners are likely to require more detail or clarification of in the Full Application.
If you were to decide that you wished to put in an application there are several routes you could now take.
1. Make an application for Oultine Planning permission with reserved matters: this is an in principal application to build X amount of houses on the site, not details of size of property or access etc.
2. Make an application for Oultine Planning permission with some reserved matters: this is an in principal application to build X amount of houses on the site, where some details are approved for instance they may be all 3 bed houses but no details of access etc.
3. Make an Full Application for Planning permission with detailed site plans and house plans and elevations showing everything.
Obviously the cost of putting in one of the three applications listed above rises as there is more work to be carried out to put together each type of application. Assuming the response from the planners was favourable costs are likely to range from say £150-£500 application type 1 from your one man band or top notch Architect. If you went for type 3 prices are gonna range from say £1000-£10000 depending on who you use and the type/size of houses etc. You may or may not need a full survey which would typically cost around £500. To put in a Full Application you would also need a phase I Contamination Report, these are typically around £750 and are required for applications of this nature.
Obviously if the site is sold with the type 1: Outline Planning Permission it will not sell for as much as if you managed to get the type 3: Full Application as the buyer will have to spend out (and take a bit of risk) to end up with a Full Application that they need anyway before they can build anything. Its not just the cost of the application professional fees remember but the (typically) minimum 3-4 months of paying interest whilst they wait to get a Full Application approved.
Local Authority Fees for either Outline of Full Application fees are £335 per dwelling BTW.
Lastly, once you have planning permission you could probably (even now) raise the money (not necessarily from a bank) to build them yourself on the back of the Approved Application and the future value.
Well that's the gist, oh yes, I do this for a living BTW.
Probably want to get the chainsaw out on the tree tomorrow! If the tree huggers at the council get wind there'll be a TPO on it in no time (if not already). -
Mike_Hunt wrote:
Our survey was a lot more detailed than a 'drive-by', he was in there for a couple of hours.
I don't think it will (I don't hold these 'drive by' surveys in much regard to be honest), but still, it's assurance that the lender believes it's at least worth what we're willing to pay.
Oh, and you're with First Direct, like us. Yeah, go with the middle level of survey and they'll send a proper surveyor with local experience to spend quite a bit of time going over the house with a fine-toothed comb. Ours came in valued at 10k below what we are buying it for, but we think that's OK given our LTV and our long-term plans for the place.
Also, be sure to check First Direct's latest rates just before you exchange. We happened to check them last week and saw that the deal we'd been offered (2.09% above base rate, £499 arrangement fee) had now been improved upon (1.99% above, £99 fee), so I phoned them, asked them to match it, and they did, saving us several hundred pounds a year! -
Mike_Hunt 23,524 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 19 years agoThanks fortge tip on the FD rates, I'll be sure to keep my eye on them. I assume the rates you quoted are trackers? I'm more inclined with fixed myself as we will be pushing ourselves to the limit and would hate for rates to shoot up.
[MH] -
Yeah, offset tracker. We've always gone for fixed rates in the past but the ones on offer at the moment in the UK are not very attractive - I only really see the point if they're for ten years and up; interest rates are so low at the moment that it just doesn't seem likely to pay off to buy a more expensive fixed rate now when it's only for five years in any case. I mean, you never know, but over the course of five years I think it's unlikely that the average interest rate will be over 5% when it's 0.5% now and has been for a while. It will definitely go up but on balance I'm betting it will work out cheaper over the five years. Not least because we expect to pay down a significant chunk of the capital during the first three years of the mortgage.
But I can definitely understand the attraction of knowing what you'll be paying, especially if you're right at the limit. -
Mike_Hunt 23,524 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 19 years agoGah. Offer rejected.
Vendor will only accept asking price plus cost of garage apparently.
I went in at 8% below Inc. Garage. I've since upped my offer to 5% below Inc garage, but I also expect this to be rejected.
His reasoning is that he's got a number of other interested parties who he believes will offer asking price as soon as they sell. The thing is he's been in this situation for over 9 months.
Gutted.
[MH] -
Dougs 100,415 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 18 years agoAin't over until someone else has exchanged contracts. They may be over-estimated the additional interest, or their chain might fall through, anything really. So don't give up hope until imo.. -
Yeah, also, don't be pushed into offering more than you can afford or than you think it's worth. -
superted1974 323 posts
Seen 8 months ago
Registered 15 years agomrpon wrote:
Without wanting to offend, anyone who offers full asking is a fool. Sellers always inflate asking prices, expecting to be chipped. I know because I did exactly this on two I've just sold last month.
Simply note true
Last two housed we bought we had to offer above asking price to get them - and I ain't no Fool !! -
Bummer Mike. Sounds like an arrogant seller to me, not willing to negotiate at all. Personally, I would make my final offer and walk away.
.gif)
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