The moment you realised the Simpsons is now terrible Page 41

  • Deleted user 11 April 2018 09:25:12
    Someone mentioned Steamed Hams, which is a good enough excuse for me to post this game I made


    https://monsterjail.itch.io/steamedhams

    For whatever reason a lot of people have put up different speedrun videos for it too
  • minky-kong 11 Apr 2018 09:27:11 14,315 posts
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    The London episode is the absolute nadir for me (of the ones I've bothered to watch past its prime), the whole thing is just sycophantic celebrity cameos and lazy "Look at Homer in this landmark!" jokes.
  • Deleted user 11 April 2018 09:28:50
    For me it went from something I always watched to something I'd watch if I remembered it was on to something I'd not seen for quite a while. The worst episode I saw was one with Lady Gaga which was complete rubbish. Honestly I don't know what they were doing with that one. There were still OK episodes when I last saw it, probably about 8 years ago, but nowhere near as good as the older ones.

    I tend to agree that it lost something as the plots became unrealistic although for some reason I don't mind that Homer went to space and it was revealed he'd been in the Be Sharps around season 5. There's something I can't quite pinpoint about it being a strength that they made a realistic cartoon where they didn't have normal series problems like the kids growing up but also they could get away with resetting everything after each episode.
  • thelzdking 11 Apr 2018 09:45:09 9,466 posts
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    As outlandish as Armin Tamsarian was the humour was still intact, it didn't really start to get shit IMO until the humour started to change, which started happening a bit in Seasons 9 and 10. Then it went off a cliff and we started to get locations and guest stars, as well as awful attempts at Family Guy-style randomness.
  • Syrette 11 Apr 2018 09:47:40 50,288 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    as well as awful attempts at Family Guy-style randomness.
    Worse than actual Family Guy randomness?
  • JamboWayOh 11 Apr 2018 09:56:50 14,150 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    As outlandish as Armin Tamsarian was the humour was still intact, it didn't really start to get shit IMO until the humour started to change, which started happening a bit in Seasons 9 and 10. Then it went off a cliff and we started to get locations and guest stars, as well as awful attempts at Family Guy-style randomness.
    Ahhh man the guest stars in the Simpsons are its worst aspect at times, usually because that guest star sounds like their reading their script for the first time. One episode where Homer went to band camp displayed that entirely with people like Lenny Kravitz and Elvis Costello sounding so flat.

    I also noticed that the show increasingly went towards pop culture for its main plot threads, there was one involving authors such as Thomas Pynchon that felt so forced that you knew immediately the writers did the episode just so they could meet those authors. I don't think the Simpsons has gone to peak Family Guy style randomness yet though, their stuff has gotten weak but it's not as desperate as Family Guy is currently.
  • thelzdking 11 Apr 2018 10:01:09 9,466 posts
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    Syrette wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    as well as awful attempts at Family Guy-style randomness.
    Worse than actual Family Guy randomness?
    Yeah, it's sad to see The Simpsons imitate something that even at it's very shitty best could never hold a candle to classic Simpsons.
  • Rhaegyr 11 Apr 2018 10:01:49 4,772 posts
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    Zombie Simpsons is one of the best reads on the internet if anyone's not checked it out.
  • thelzdking 11 Apr 2018 10:02:06 9,466 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    As outlandish as Armin Tamsarian was the humour was still intact, it didn't really start to get shit IMO until the humour started to change, which started happening a bit in Seasons 9 and 10. Then it went off a cliff and we started to get locations and guest stars, as well as awful attempts at Family Guy-style randomness.
    Ahhh man the guest stars in the Simpsons are its worst aspect at times, usually because that guest star sounds like their reading their script for the first time. One episode where Homer went to band camp displayed that entirely with people like Lenny Kravitz and Elvis Costello sounding so flat.

    I also noticed that the show increasingly went towards pop culture for its main plot threads, there was one involving authors such as Thomas Pynchon that felt so forced that you knew immediately the writers did the episode just so they could meet those authors. I don't think the Simpsons has gone to peak Family Guy style randomness yet though, their stuff has gotten weak but it's not as desperate as Family Guy is currently.
    I rarely watch it these days, but I saw the band camp one the other day, Christ on a bike it was bad.
  • Rhaegyr 11 Apr 2018 10:07:01 4,772 posts
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    S11 is definitely the season it went off the deep end - S10 still had the odd gem like They Saved Lisa's Brain.

    S3 to S8 is about as good as TV can get.
  • JamboWayOh 11 Apr 2018 10:09:20 14,150 posts
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    @thelzdking

    They had Tom Petty on that episode too...
  • Psiloc 11 Apr 2018 10:09:28 5,114 posts
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    Rhaegyr wrote:
    Zombie Simpsons is one of the best reads on the internet if anyone's not checked it out.
    Can confirm.
  • DrStrangelove 11 Apr 2018 16:19:50 14,360 posts
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    Rhaegyr wrote:
    S3 to S8 is about as good as TV can get.
    I think my favourite is actually S2. Humour-wise close to the following seasons, but it still had a touch of the more emotional themes of S1 (which I find very underrated).
  • Dougs 11 Apr 2018 16:27:36 89,892 posts
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    I'd love to watch the first 10 seasons again on one of them there streaming services.

    Edited by Dougs at 16:28:06 11-04-2018
  • disusedgenius 11 Apr 2018 16:46:34 9,930 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    I'd love to watch the first 10 seasons again on one of them there streaming services.
    I expect that'll be one for the Disney streaming thing, once they have it up and running.
  • OnlyJoeKing 11 Apr 2018 17:42:43 945 posts
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    Rhaegyr wrote:
    Zombie Simpsons is one of the best reads on the internet if anyone's not checked it out.
    Thank you!!! Had not heard of it, dipped in a toe and it looks fantastic. Cheers
  • thelzdking 11 Apr 2018 17:44:22 9,466 posts
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    Zombie Simpsons is really interesting.
  • Dougs 11 Apr 2018 19:01:18 89,892 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    Dougs wrote:
    I'd love to watch the first 10 seasons again on one of them there streaming services.
    I expect that'll be one for the Disney streaming thing, once they have it up and running.
    Ah yeah. I got a bit excited when NowTV added Futurama
  • Skirlasvoud 11 Apr 2018 23:37:39 4,039 posts
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    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 23:37:54 11-04-2018
  • Rhaegyr 25 Apr 2018 13:47:27 4,772 posts
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    Hank Azaria 'willing to step aside' from Simpsons Apu role

    Granted this won't effect most people here as I doubt anyone watches anything after S9/S10 but I'm curious on what people think of this?

    Personally I'm not sure where it stops. Does the characters attitude and mannerisms change? Do voices behind other characters need to change, such as Dr Hibbert, Bumblebee Man, Carl, Groundskeeper Willie etc? Would anyone even care at this point?

    The characters on the show are practically all stereotypes so I've no idea how you'd deal with it.
  • Skirlasvoud 25 Apr 2018 14:48:20 4,039 posts
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    I watched show where Hank Azaria made that claim on the Colbert Show.

    I found it remarkable how enthusiastic the audience was at the claim "the show is still going!". At this point it's probably so much of an institution that the mainstream don't want it to see dissapear simply because it's part of their world view, even though they never watch.


    Yes, all characters are practically stereotypes, but Apu is the only stereotype of a specific minority. If there had been a diversity of this minority, it would've been less striking. I think that's the difference.


    At this point its better to just burn the entire thing to the ground...
  • Rhaegyr 25 Apr 2018 15:00:15 4,772 posts
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    I'm not so sure, I'd say Bumbleebee Man and Groundskeeper Willie fall into this bracket. Fuck knows what the solution is though.
  • spindle9988 25 Apr 2018 15:00:46 4,920 posts
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    When Ricky Gervais did his episode.
  • minky-kong 25 Apr 2018 16:27:48 14,315 posts
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  • Fake_Blood 25 Apr 2018 17:03:48 9,576 posts
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    Skirlasvoud wrote:

    Yes, all characters are practically stereotypes, but Apu is the only stereotype of a specific minority. If there had been a diversity of this minority, it would've been less striking. I think that's the difference.

    What about Ned as christian stereotype? Okay there's Maude and the kids but Apu has a wife and kids too in the series.

    Then there's the stereotypical germans trying to buy over the power plant from burns, and the fat german exchange student.
  • Skirlasvoud 25 Apr 2018 17:38:53 4,039 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Skirlasvoud wrote:

    Yes, all characters are practically stereotypes, but Apu is the only stereotype of a specific minority. If there had been a diversity of this minority, it would've been less striking. I think that's the difference.

    What about Ned as christian stereotype? Okay there's Maude and the kids but Apu has a wife and kids too in the series.

    Then there's the stereotypical germans trying to buy over the power plant from burns, and the fat german exchange student.
    Good question.


    I think it has to do with how hard any sub-type already had to work to maintain a respectable imagine in a society and in front of the audience to which the joke is told.


    Whenever a German, Italian, American, Catholic/Protestant or any other type of Western stereotype is made fun of, a Western audience will recognize it easily as just so much buffoonery, because the reality of these sub-groups is well known to them.
    Whenever a more "exotic" sub-type is made made fun, it might be harder for a Western audience to see the difference with reality, because of unfamiliary and/or because prejiduces are easier to hold.

    I'm a fan of History, so I know that the Irish for example, didn't always have the best of it. Aside from blackface, insensitive performance would characterize them as drunken idlers who are slavish followers of the pope. When Kennedy was elected, there was actually a row over his Catholicism and that barrier was broken when he managed to get elected. Nowadays it's less of a big deal in America.
    Fortunately the Irish in America have also come a long way since then and nowadays we recognize the jest when the Simpsons portray them as tap dancing leprechauns. It's a safer target, just like Homer can be potrayed as a stereotypical American. The target demographic should be sturdy enough to suffer a playful jab and indeed, not much AS much fuss is raised when the Simpsons do an Irish wife-beater joke.


    Do the same to a non-Western "other" or more reputation-vulnerable target however, especially when they're still trying to build a reputation and their struggle against prejudice isn't over yet, and you validly risk undermining their work.


    Whether or not a target should be able to endure a playful jab since their reputation is well enough established within the audience, or if they're a weaker minority that deserves a little protection from the risk of prejudice, is a completely different matter and I in no way feel fit enough to debate.

    That's my theory... at least.



    I can remember the Irish-American audience not running the theatre caricatures of themselves out of town at first, since they didn't feel powerful enough. Then there came the time that they felt like they needed to work on their reputation and they did. Then, finally after a few decades, they became tolerant of minor jabs.

    I think the Indian-American are in a similar pattern now. Not daring to speak up at first, but now coming to a moment where they want to claim their own reputation.

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 17:46:31 25-04-2018

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 17:48:09 25-04-2018
  • Jono62 25 Apr 2018 17:44:46 22,577 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Skirlasvoud wrote:

    Yes, all characters are practically stereotypes, but Apu is the only stereotype of a specific minority. If there had been a diversity of this minority, it would've been less striking. I think that's the difference.

    What about Ned as christian stereotype? Okay there's Maude and the kids but Apu has a wife and kids too in the series.

    Then there's the stereotypical germans trying to buy over the power plant from burns, and the fat german exchange student.
    There's also the stereotypical Italian. Think most of the stereotypes are voiced by Hank.
  • Fake_Blood 25 Apr 2018 20:44:52 9,576 posts
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    Skirlasvoud wrote:
    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Skirlasvoud wrote:

    Yes, all characters are practically stereotypes, but Apu is the only stereotype of a specific minority. If there had been a diversity of this minority, it would've been less striking. I think that's the difference.

    What about Ned as christian stereotype? Okay there's Maude and the kids but Apu has a wife and kids too in the series.

    Then there's the stereotypical germans trying to buy over the power plant from burns, and the fat german exchange student.
    Good question.


    I think it has to do with how hard any sub-type already had to work to maintain a respectable imagine in a society and in front of the audience to which the joke is told.


    Whenever a German, Italian, American, Catholic/Protestant or any other type of Western stereotype is made fun of, a Western audience will recognize it easily as just so much buffoonery, because the reality of these sub-groups is well known to them.
    Whenever a more "exotic" sub-type is made made fun, it might be harder for a Western audience to see the difference with reality, because of unfamiliary and/or because prejiduces are easier to hold.

    I'm a fan of History, so I know that the Irish for example, didn't always have the best of it. Aside from blackface, insensitive performance would characterize them as drunken idlers who are slavish followers of the pope. When Kennedy was elected, there was actually a row over his Catholicism and that barrier was broken when he managed to get elected. Nowadays it's less of a big deal in America.
    Fortunately the Irish in America have also come a long way since then and nowadays we recognize the jest when the Simpsons portray them as tap dancing leprechauns. It's a safer target, just like Homer can be potrayed as a stereotypical American. The target demographic should be sturdy enough to suffer a playful jab and indeed, not much AS much fuss is raised when the Simpsons do an Irish wife-beater joke.


    Do the same to a non-Western "other" or more reputation-vulnerable target however, especially when they're still trying to build a reputation and their struggle against prejudice isn't over yet, and you validly risk undermining their work.


    Whether or not a target should be able to endure a playful jab since their reputation is well enough established within the audience, or if they're a weaker minority that deserves a little protection from the risk of prejudice, is a completely different matter and I in no way feel fit enough to debate.

    That's my theory... at least.



    I can remember the Irish-American audience not running the theatre caricatures of themselves out of town at first, since they didn't feel powerful enough. Then there came the time that they felt like they needed to work on their reputation and they did. Then, finally after a few decades, they became tolerant of minor jabs.

    I think the Indian-American are in a similar pattern now. Not daring to speak up at first, but now coming to a moment where they want to claim their own reputation.

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 17:46:31 25-04-2018
    That actually made a lot of sense sir, thank you.
    I never regarded the Apu character as offensive, he's a pretty likeable guy, and I seem to remember a couple episodes where they expanded his story arc, I even think it got a tiny bit into Indian culture. I think the simpsons is the first time I ever heard of the god Vishnu.

    But I can also understand the Indian guy that heard the sentence "thank you come again" once too many and is sick of the stereotype.

    Come to think of it, the simpsons have always ridden that line between being funny and being offensive, but it's a line that's always in motion.

    Heh, in 10 years they can ask Whoopi to do one of these for the simpsons.


  • Psiloc 26 Apr 2018 10:02:37 5,114 posts
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    Ultimately itís up to the south Asian community to decide if the character is iffy or not. We can sit here and say ďI donít see the difference between Apu and Dr. HibbertĒ, but all that proves is you donít see the difference, not that there isnít one.

    Itís hard to put your finger on, but I can 100% imagine a south Asian kid having ďthank you, come againĒ shouted at them, but I donít see the Dr. Hibbert chuckle being used for the same purpose or having anything like the same effect.

    However intangible I can definitely see that the Apu character is more problematic. I donít know what you do about it now, though.
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