Following The all-new Premier League thread Page 8635

  • reddevil93 22 Feb 2021 21:54:46 15,869 posts
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    What a volley
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 23 Feb 2021 00:24:34 16,375 posts
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    Kay wrote:
    Surely that Maguire elbow was violent conduct that the FA should have looked into after the game?

    Edit: Okay, violent conduction is a bit of an exaggeration, but he did clatter him into the goal with his elbow without even attempting to go for the ball.
    Its not the full Ben Thatcher but its a straight red if the ref sees it
  • General_Martok 23 Feb 2021 07:55:54 1,862 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Iím all for consistency in offside being implemented, but either the technology needs to be perfected, or decisions need to recognise the imperfection and allow attacking advantage within a recognised margin of error.
    Yes, exactly. Cricket recognises that the Hawkeye tech has a margin of error and account for that by favouring the onfield decision. No reason why the same can't happen. Would need everyone to accept that what is given one game, may not another.
    This. Football just continuously refuses to learn the lessons provided by other sports implementation of technology.
  • DakeyrasUK 23 Feb 2021 09:02:34 4,920 posts
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    Would love on field decisions to stand in the case of the very marginal decisions, as long as we return to linesman giving benefit of doubt to attacking sides.
  • fontgeeksogood 23 Feb 2021 09:14:42 12,442 posts
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    The thing I find weird about it, is even American Football - which takes 3 hours to play and has about 15 minutes of actual running about - understands that video review tech can be intrusive and have mechanisms in place to reduce its impact on the flow
  • JYM60 23 Feb 2021 09:16:41 18,730 posts
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDod13lr9Yc

    Obviously people are seeing what they want to see, but it's not like Maguire has thrown an arm elbow at the guy. He's just got his arm up to block him, and it doesn't even connect with him. A pen at a push maybe.
  • SolidSCB 23 Feb 2021 09:19:41 14,913 posts
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    I just think the implementation over here is deliberate sabotage so we can carry on with our beautiful, pure game as quickly as possible when it gets canned. While still not perfect (it is still in its infancy after all), I haven't seen half the controversy both overseas and in the International competitions it's been a part of. It is quite literally every single weekend over here, in multiple incidents. It's quite something.
  • mikew1985 23 Feb 2021 09:26:13 15,299 posts
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    I think it's been fairly controversial elsewhere too. Certainly in Spain and Germany there's been plenty of reports of a general dislike of the implementation.
  • JoelStinty 23 Feb 2021 09:38:26 9,274 posts
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    I donít think it helps that the powers that be (FIFA, Uefa, FA) are so Insular that you donít really know whatís on the agenda when it comes to trying to fix things like VAR.

    The on-field decision standing in the face of marginal calls make so much sense but there seems to be no real discussion about it being implemented. I know theyíre different sports but with Cricket, F1 etc there always seems to be ongoing discussions about where those sports are going from the governing bodies down to media and grassroots levels. In football there just seems to be a disconnect. Although the introduction of concussion subs shows they can be flexible and I like to see more of that.

    Which reminds me, why didnít West Ham bring a player on when Soucek went off on Sunday? Or is it still just cup games itís been introduced too?
  • You-can-call-me-kal 23 Feb 2021 09:55:18 22,783 posts
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    SolidSCB wrote:
    I just think the implementation over here is deliberate sabotage so we can carry on with our beautiful, pure game as quickly as possible when it gets canned.
    Iím assuming/hoping this is slightly tongue-in-cheek, but youíve said this a few times, and itís obviously bollocks.
  • mikew1985 23 Feb 2021 10:34:09 15,299 posts
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    They can't just can it. Can you imagine the uproar if there was a wrongly disallowed goal for offside in a big game that could have easily been cleared up by technology?

    We're not going back, nor do I believe that we should. There are problems but it is in it's relative infancy and there were loads of problems before.

    I don't think it helps when you have fairly influential people in the media sort of advocating for it to be removed. Lineker sort of surprised me with some of his comments recently. He must know it's not going away nor will that solve anything so I don't know what he expect when using words to the effect of "scrap it".

    Edited by mikew1985 at 10:36:18 23-02-2021
  • SolidSCB 23 Feb 2021 10:51:10 14,913 posts
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    It's not a serious accusation, they've just implemented it so badly it almost comes across like that's what they are trying to do. It's obviously just incompetence more than anything. But yeah, you can't say a large portion of the media aren't trying to influence it happening.
  • Trowel 23 Feb 2021 12:05:01 24,196 posts
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    Everton's stadium planning permission has been unanimously approved by Liverpool Council \o/
  • SolidSCB 23 Feb 2021 12:08:47 14,913 posts
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    Are you making it look more like Anfield so Liverpool just don't know how to win there too?
  • You-can-call-me-kal 23 Feb 2021 12:15:39 22,783 posts
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    This is glorious.

    https://twitter.com/footyrustling/status/1364173487565324289?s=21
  • SolidSCB 23 Feb 2021 12:16:40 14,913 posts
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    Rivaldo used Limit Break.
  • muddyyfunster 23 Feb 2021 12:48:21 911 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    This is glorious.

    https://twitter.com/footyrustling/status/1364173487565324289?s=21
    I know that's not exactly elite level, but I'd be genuinely interested to know what the maximum punishment is if a player cheated so blatantly in Europe. i.e. what would happen if someone did that with VAR? Could they give a red or is it only a yellow for simulation? What if there is no VAR and it's not seen (like Rivaldo's) do they still theoretically get away with it these days?

    Obviously, it's not as bad as violent conduct or an extremely dangerous tackle but few things bring the game into disrepute more than stuff like that. Just brazenly trying to con the match officials.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 23 Feb 2021 13:11:53 22,783 posts
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    Itís interesting. Why does how blatant it is make it worse? Cheating is cheating no? That almost suggests rewarding people for being better at it, with less severe punishments.
  • muddyyfunster 23 Feb 2021 15:27:48 911 posts
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    I suppose personally, the more obvious and 'in your face' any cheating is, the more offensive I find it. The more unconvincing or half-assed the acting, the more it feels like contempt for anyone who cares about the sport.

    Admittedly that's a very emotional rather than objective response and therefore not a sound basis for decision making. I'm not claiming to have a solution here but I struggle with the idea that diving to win a penalty should carry the same punishment as (presumably) trying to get the match abandoned or fans banned? Maybe they are indeed different offences, but without picking up the rule book and based on years of received wisdom from 'expert pundits' I'd assume both are technically just simulation and a booking.

    Edited by muddyyfunster at 15:29:07 23-02-2021
  • You-can-call-me-kal 23 Feb 2021 15:36:37 22,783 posts
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    I donít disagree. Itís just an interesting subject.

    Iíve often thought appealing for throw-ins or corners even when you know itís not yours (which is absolutely standard) is not really that different to diving. Itís conning the officials. But itís not even considered an offence.

    I remember Chelsea had a goal against us a few years ago before goal line tech where a player appealed so convincingly for the goal he got it, even though on a replay it went nowhere near the line let alone over it. I remember thinking at the time that was worse deceit than diving for a pen, but it wasnít even discussed.
  • muddyyfunster 23 Feb 2021 16:09:06 911 posts
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    Sure, both are also cheating and should carry some consequences.

    Using video, the game could genuinely sort this out via a wave of retrospective action. Short term it would be chaos whilst players found out the hard way where the new line was with lots of bans, but after that period of pain, the game would be better for it. In my view, it would absolutely be worth it and would set the tone for all levels.

    As a somewhat relevant example. Encroachment on penalties was basically not officiated for years, right up until VAR as most refs seemingly weren't watching and no one cared. It was one of my bugbears and I used to go back and pause to check (I'm fun at parties). I'd say 80-90% of pens had encroachment and barely any were retaken. With VAR there was a small spate of retakes but the players adapted. Now it's just sorted and very rarely happens.
  • Jono62 23 Feb 2021 18:35:53 26,501 posts
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    It's not a foul and it's a dive. Took me one look to see that.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 23 Feb 2021 18:36:05 22,783 posts
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    Agree.
  • Zomoniac 23 Feb 2021 18:38:15 10,421 posts
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    Shame. I mean, not a shame in that Iím glad we didnít concede a penalty, but Iíd been really impressed with Telle up to that point. Not seen him before, looks a proper talent, has now tainted my opinion a bit.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 23 Feb 2021 18:39:19 22,783 posts
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    What a tackle.
  • Armoured_Bear 23 Feb 2021 18:39:53 29,798 posts
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    Gordon McQueen sadly another ex-player now with dementia, will be interesting to see what happens wrt heading.
  • Zomoniac 23 Feb 2021 18:43:39 10,421 posts
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    I thought both were pens in real time, I was wrong on both counts. Raph shouldíve hit that earlier but thatís tackle of the season right there.
  • Dougs 23 Feb 2021 18:50:44 98,009 posts
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    Ha, I'm not watching but I'm assuming it was the incident that flashscore describes as "the ball is cleared after Raphina (Leeds) attempted to dribble past an opposing player"
  • Zomoniac 23 Feb 2021 18:54:04 10,421 posts
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    @Dougs he broke from a counter, was one on one with the whole half to himself, took too long to get the shot away, Romeo came flying in behind him. In real time it seemed inconceivable it couldnít not be a foul, but it was an incredible tackle.

    Video: https://twitter.com/d9ine_forever31/status/1364284320395894791?s=21
  • You-can-call-me-kal 23 Feb 2021 19:05:40 22,783 posts
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    It was pretty obvious in real time tbh from the movement of the ball. I posted above before I saw the replay and the commentators immediately went nuts about what a great tackle it was.
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