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Imagine defending Tony Blair. Imagine defending the banks. Imaginefolf. |
The UK General Politics Thread • Page 818
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H1ggyLTD 8,907 posts
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Registered 7 years ago -
GoatApocalypse 3,741 posts
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Registered 7 years ago"all of those people are and always have been hateful vile cunts that would have been easy prey for a remotely competent opposition. Especially during one of the biggest challenges facing our country. But he didn’t. Are you seriously trying to twist this to blame Alan Johnson"
I'm sure you can understand my inference. -
elstoof 19,774 posts
Seen 40 minutes ago
Registered 13 years agoThey’re all also still at large, hence the incompetence -
simpleexplodingmaybe 6,206 posts
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Registered 3 years agoMfolf wrote:
Fuck off
the spastics -
DukeSilver 3,114 posts
Seen 28 minutes ago
Registered 3 years agoMfolf wrote:
Spastics should have faded from your vocabulary as it's not 1980 and it's now an offensive word.
DukeSilver wrote:
Sorry, I'm not a meme lord like the trumpers/Corbynites so I like to stick to the trusted oldies when it comes to insults.
Vile cunts. Spastics. Nice thread with delightful people engaging in intellectual debate. -
GoatApocalypse 3,741 posts
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Registered 7 years ago@Mfolf I'm not sure how closely you followed the referendum, but it wasn't fought on traditional party lines. The Labour Party's official position was the same as the Conservatives' - they campaigned on it together. The Labour Party chose that their part of the campaign would be led by Alan Johnson because the PLP, in particular, believed that Corbyn's brand was toxic.
Given his personal approval ratings at the time, I can understand why they chose that route. Particularly since his position was, at best, luke-warm.
Again, I'm not blaming Johnson. I'm just giving you the facts. If you think Corbyn should have done more, I agree. I'm merely explaining why he didn't.
I think putting Corbyn front and centre of the Remain campaign - as a sceptic - would have been a really smart move. But that's with the benefit of hindsight. And for all I know, it could've been catastrophic.
That's not to blame or absolve anyone from blame. But only an absolute fucking idiot would believe it was pivotal, given decades of anti-EU sentiment that the establishment had been all-too-keen to foster.
And one more thing - I can guarantee that if they'd put Blair up for Remain, Leave would've won by a landslide. -
GoatApocalypse 3,741 posts
Seen 4 hours ago
Registered 7 years ago@Mfolf I'm not sure how closely you followed the referendum, but it wasn't fought on traditional party lines. The Labour Party's official position was the same as the Conservatives' - they campaigned on it together. The Labour Party chose that their part of the campaign would be led by Alan Johnson because the PLP, in particular, believed that Corbyn's brand was toxic.
Given his personal approval ratings at the time, I can understand why they chose that route. Particularly since his position was, at best, luke-warm.
Again, I'm not blaming Johnson. I'm just giving you the facts. If you think Corbyn should have done more, I agree. I'm merely explaining why he didn't.
I think putting Corbyn front and centre of the Remain campaign - as a sceptic - would have been a really smart move. But that's with the benefit of hindsight. And for all I know, it could've been catastrophic.
That's not to blame or absolve anyone from blame. But only an absolute fucking idiot would believe it was pivotal, given decades of anti-EU sentiment that the establishment had been all-too-keen to foster.
And one more thing - I can guarantee that if they'd put Blair up for Remain, Leave would've won by a landslide. -
Some absolute tumble dryers in here. -
DukeSilver 3,114 posts
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Registered 3 years ago@Decks I'm not talking to you unless we have a mowgli picture in his home location of DFS. -
GoatApocalypse 3,741 posts
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Registered 7 years agoI'm loathe to point to the New Statesman - hardly a pro-Corbyn publication - but this is a good editorial on the subject: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2017/12/border-question-can-be-solved-only-once-britain-understands-what-irish-want
EDIT: weird URL, the title of the piece is actually It’s neither in Labour nor the UK’s interests to blame Jeremy Corbyn for Brexit and it's fron June 2016.
Edited by GoatApocalypse at 22:00:00 06-12-2017 -
thelzdking 7,452 posts
Seen 19 minutes ago
Registered 9 years agoBloody wardrobes. -
mothercruncher 14,782 posts
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Registered 12 years agoCom eon, get with it Dad. It’s absolute wardrobes.
You absolute Birdseye Potato Waffle. -
GoatApocalypse 3,741 posts
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Registered 7 years agoMfolf wrote:
They tried to explain to people that the status quo was actually good, when so much of the country is hurting because of the liberal hegemony established by the EU. Arguing for the status quo from a point of privilege while the country is bleeding was just dumb politics. The whole of the Remain campaign fucked it.
Again, the centrist dads actually tried.
I'd therefore argue that the Dads were, as ever, in their benign ignorance, a huge part of the problem without the ability to reflect on the harm they're doing. -
JamboWayOh 6,198 posts
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Registered 5 years agothelzdking wrote:
You're being too kind, they're all fucking king size Divans.
Bloody wardrobes. -
challenge_hanukkah 6,028 posts
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Registered 5 years agoIt's wall to wall walls in this thread.
Eggs. -
simpleexplodingmaybe 6,206 posts
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Registered 3 years ago@GoatApocalypse Stephen Bush is usually good at outlining issues and actually interested in what's going on as opposed to just opinion spouting. I wish more parliamentary coverage was like his.
Possibly Isabel Hardman would be the right win equivalent at the Spectator, maybe James Forsyth there too but he's much more explicitly partisan in his columns.
For all that experience can bring its rewards I think we'd be better off with those younger engaged writers than all the old sods who are purely reactive and don't appear to have done any serious research in years. -
GoatApocalypse 3,741 posts
Seen 4 hours ago
Registered 7 years ago@Mfolf Demonstrably did more than nothing. He did more than the actual campaign leader. Don't demean yourself.
I think you're off on a frolic of your own in total ignorance of the facts, but let's pick up the logic and run with it for a sec. Your position is that he's incompetent and takes no credit for the modest wins he's achieved - why do you think a man like that would've helped, given his consistent position on the EU since the 70s? -
Blurp 1,306 posts
Seen 8 hours ago
Registered 2 years agoMfolf wrote:
Your twisting it laying the majority of the blame on Corbyn you fucking bread knife.
GoatApocalypse wrote:
all of those people are and always have been hateful vile cunts that would have been easy prey for a remotely competent opposition. Especially during one of the biggest challenges facing our country. But he didn’t. Are you seriously trying to twist this to blame Alan Johnson?
I think blaming individuals is a fool's errand. Blame Cameron for calling the referendum, blame Johnson for his outright lies, blame Farage for years of insighting racial hatred, blame the media establishment for totally failing in their duty, blame years of neoliberalism for building the sentiment up amongst the populace.
Corbyn's role is only a tiny part in it. He might have made a more positive impact if he was used better but the deal was that Alan Johnson ran the show. -
thelzdking 7,452 posts
Seen 19 minutes ago
Registered 9 years agoJamboWayOh wrote:
Possibly, but I think we can both agree that you're seeing your typical glovebox mentality here.
thelzdking wrote:
You're being too kind, they're all fucking king size Divans.
Bloody wardrobes. -
You know the predrilled holes you get on the inside of kitchen unit doors. What an absolute one of them you are. -
GoatApocalypse 3,741 posts
Seen 4 hours ago
Registered 7 years agoMfolf wrote:
"don’t credit him for a hung parliament and manifesto destruction, the Tories incompetents did that"
GoatApocalypse wrote:
hold up, where did I say he takes no credit for the modest wins he’s achieved?!? Is this whole debate happening in your head?
@Mfolf Demonstrably did more than nothing. He did more than the actual campaign leader. Don't demean yourself.
I think you're off on a frolic of your own in total ignorance of the facts, but let's pick up the logic and run with it for a sec. Your position is that he's incompetent and takes no credit for the modest wins he's achieved - why do you think a man like that would've helped, given his consistent position on the EU since the 70s?
Oh, yeah, sorry, no idea where I got that from.
Mfolf wrote:
I'm sorry you find the language intimidating, but it's ironic that you should accuse me of "speaking such consistent bollocks" when... well, here we are:
It’s hard to give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean it in the proper sense when you refer to liberal hegemony and not the_donald use when you are speaking such consistent bollocks.
Mfolf wrote:
He did more than the campaign leader? You mean for Leave?
I'm off for a wank.
Edited by GoatApocalypse at 22:17:32 06-12-2017 -
Armoured_Bear 21,962 posts
Seen 7 hours ago
Registered 6 years agoDo we have some quality Mowgli expletive-filled rage? -
Do we have some quality Mowgli expletive-filled rage?
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