Revolution in the middle east Page 84

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  • Segnit 11 Sep 2013 11:00:46 206 posts
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    @EndlessSolitude Are you proposing that the rebels killed the majority? It's not clear if you're throwing out a hypothetical.

    Hezbollah is far from secular and far from moderate. They're a rogue, unaccountable, and a non-state actor which constantly undermines the moderate Lebanese government. However to credit your argument, there are in fact some parties who believe Hezbollah is a positive force. Most notably and exclusively Iran and Syria.

    As for "It's up to the Syrians to decide", need I remind you that it is the policy of the Assad's dynasty to kill dissenters. And to credit you on one more thing, you do in fact hold the popular opinion when you say "It's for the Syrians to decide".

    Syria is the biggest problem in the world for 2 and a half years now. The humanitarian crisis is at an all time high with 6 million people forced to flee their homes, two of which have fled the country altogether. And the popular opinion is "why fix something that ain't broken".

    Edited by Segnit at 11:03:52 11-09-2013

    Edited by Segnit at 11:05:12 11-09-2013
  • Deleted user 11 September 2013 12:50:59
    I'm inclined to think that the majority of deaths may well be due to the rebels, but given the nature of civil wars, it is not something that is easy to prove.

    You claim that it is the policy of 'Assad's dynasty', (I'd call it the Ba'ath regime), to 'kill dissenters'. They could argue that their policy is to kill dissenters who resort to armed violence against them - and that in that respect, they are not particularly different from governments all over the world. Unlike Egypt or Tunisia, the Syrian rebellion became very violent, very soon - perhaps an indication that the rebels knew that they didn't have mass support and decided on violent methods to compensate for this.

    I'd have to differ on the view that Syria is the biggest problem for the world: I'd say rising mass unemployment is the world's foremost problem - and tackling that ought to have been the priority (at the recent G-20 summit for example).

    Finally: the refugee crisis, is a serious humanitarian tragedy... for West Asia; (in contrast, the four million that are internally-displaced are a concern for Syria alone). Let the main powers in that region, (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, even Israel), deal with it. Saudi Arabia is probably wealthy enough to rehabilitate one million of them single-handedly, the rest can be dealt with by the rest of the region. Moreover, once they start bearing the burden of the refugees, they might be less inclined to add fuel to the fire (by financing or arming the warring sides) and more inclined to facilitate a diplomatic solution.
  • cubbymoore 11 Sep 2013 13:43:49 36,677 posts
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    It's still mostly 1024x768.
  • Segnit 11 Sep 2013 15:37:14 206 posts
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    Regarding the deathtoll this is what I found: 40,146 Civilians, 45,649 Assad Loyalists, 24,576 Rebels. If 76.25% of the civilians were killed by the government, then it'd be 50/50 more or less. Although that's a very plausible scenario given asymmetry of the warfare; nevertheless I'll echo what you said "It's not something that is easy to prove".

    As for killing violent dissenters. Walid al-Muallem stated that the Syrian crisis started with "legitimate demands". The most credible account of what happened was that the regime escalated anti-government protests into a civil war. Had the Assad regime refrained from shelling peaceful protests, would the opposition still have turned violent? Maybe. But we'll never know.

    What we do know is that Human Rights Watch has a very detailed account of those first days, and how the legitimate aspirations was converted into a bloodbath.

    As for the other stuff, you have the right to your own opinion of what's the biggest crisis facing the world today. My view is better aligned with Ban Ki-moon.
  • Deleted user 1 October 2013 10:01:28
    Meanwhile, in Syria...

    Mortar shell hits Chinese embassy in Syria, 1 injured

    DAMASCUS - A mortar shell fell into the compound of the Chinese Embassy in Damascus on Monday, slightly injuring a Syrian employee, according to an official from the embassy.

    It was the first time that the Chinese Embassy was hit since the Syrian conflict broke out two and a half years ago.

    The Chinese Embassy confirmed that the mortar shell which was allegedly launched from a southern suburb of Damascus fell into its compound on Monday morning, damaging part of the office building's base walls and shattering some windows.

    A Syrian worker, who was cleaning an office, was injured in the attack. He was being treated at a nearby hospital.

    A Xinhua reporter who rushed to the scene shortly after the attack saw some embassy staff members cleaning shrapnel and debris. The embassy has maintained good order.
    For some reason, it brought to mind NATO's bombing of the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia in 1999... but fortunately, no one got killed this time.
  • Deleted user 8 October 2013 09:04:07
    Interview With President al-Assad

    (Be careful when reading it at the above link, as sometimes they don't separate the statements of the interviewer and the interviewed.)

    Some excerpts:

    Der Spiegel: The legitimacy of a president does not rest on slogans and promises, but on actions. As a result of the gas attack against your people, you forfeited every right to be in your position.

    President Assad: We did not use chemical weapons; this is not true. And the picture you are drawing of me is not true. The United States, the entire western world, the richest countries in the Arab world and neighbouring Turkey are against me, and terrorists are crossing the borders from Iraq. On top of all of this, I kill my people, who support me nevertheless! Am I superhuman? No. So, why am I still in power two and half years on? The answer is simple: because a large segment of the Syrian people support me, they support the government and the state. Whether they constitute 50% or less, that is a different issue. But this large segment also means ‘legitimacy.’ This is how things are in reality.
    Der Spiegel: Don’t you need the West?

    President Assad: Of course, but not to replace the Syrians, or the Russians who are real friends. They understand better than the West the truth about what is happening here in reality. If I am praising them now, this is not because of the close ties that have linked us for years, but because, frankly, the Russians are more independent than you are in Europe. You rely too much on the United States in your policies and easily adopt its policies.
    Der Spiegel: When will you win against al-Qaeda?

    President Assad: When we restore stability; that’s why we must get rid of the terrorists. Then, we need to get rid of their ideology that has infiltrated certain areas of Syria, because it is more dangerous than terrorism itself. This ideology, which encourages an eight-year old boy to slaughter a man while adults and children watch and cheer as if they were watching a football match. This actually happened in northern Syria. Getting rid of this mentality and liberating ourselves from it is going to be more difficult than getting rid of the chemical weapons.
  • effinjamie 11 Dec 2013 23:36:28 982 posts
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    Syria: US and UK suspend aid after Islamist fighters seize weapons stores
    Well.........didn't see that coming,.......DOH!
  • Deleted user 11 December 2013 23:57:54
    EndlessSolitude wrote:
    Interview With President al-Assad

    (Be careful when reading it at the above link, as sometimes they don't separate the statements of the interviewer and the interviewed.)

    Some excerpts:
    Given the choice of excerpts, I take it you have a particular view on Syria?
  • Deleted user 17 December 2013 08:15:07
    Bremenacht wrote:
    EndlessSolitude wrote:
    Interview With President al-Assad

    (Be careful when reading it at the above link, as sometimes they don't separate the statements of the interviewer and the interviewed.)

    Some excerpts:
    Given the choice of excerpts, I take it you have a particular view on Syria?
    Yes: as I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread:

    For my part, judging by the opponents of the Syrian regime, it seems quite clear that the Damascus regime is more worthy of support than the alternatives.
  • Load_2.0 17 Dec 2013 11:44:49 26,425 posts
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    So this British GP has been in jail for 18 months, beaten, abused and his health deteriorating rapidly.

    All the while the Foreign Office "monitor the situation"

    Now he has died in some fucking shithole.

    Appalling and unbelievable weak, this needed pressure immediately. From PM directly if necessary.
  • fletch7100 17 Dec 2013 11:50:59 8,368 posts
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    To bad the article didn't mention the fact that person entered the country illegally. He was working at the border in a refugee centre then decided to cross the border

    Edited by fletch7100 at 11:51:52 17-12-2013
  • Load_2.0 17 Dec 2013 12:03:01 26,425 posts
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    Bit harsh given his intentions and while obviously an incredibly risky thing to do, it in no way warrants being beaten and imprisoned until you die.

    He was "accused of treating dying civilians which has been classed as an act of terrorism".
  • Deleted user 5 January 2014 07:23:46
    The next frontier for international business: Iran.

    'Chance of a Century': International Investors Flock to Tehran

    Bernbeck tells a story that he thinks perfectly illustrates the current situation in Tehran: Not a single top European official came to President Rohani's inauguration, as agreed by the EU member states' representatives in Brussels. But the very next day the government in Rome sent a high-ranking emissary to personally congratulate the new Iranian head of state.

    Now the planes from Europe are "full of Italians," Bernbeck quips, including managers from Italian energy giant Eni. France is also on the move. In a deal worth billions, the French are about to renew their licensing contract for supplying Peugeot conponents to Iranian carmaker Iran Khodro. "And the Americans are already here with ExxonMobil, Chevron Corporation and other US companies," he says, adding: "They are responsible for renovating the old oil production facilities and refinery industry, as well as exploring new oil fields. That's a huge multibillion-euro business."
  • Razz 24 Mar 2014 08:42:04 63,431 posts
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    Holy shit:

    Egypt sentence over 500 Morsi supporters to death.
  • Load_2.0 24 Mar 2014 09:35:53 26,425 posts
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    Pretty ridiculous isn't it?

    Don't worry though, these are the "good guys" doing the executing so it is not a problem.
  • Deleted user 24 March 2014 10:19:06
    529?! Jesus. That's surely going to be massively counter-productive, let alone barbaric?
  • senso-ji 24 Mar 2014 10:22:44 8,286 posts
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    It's like Mubarak never left!
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