Charlie Brooker's Black Mirror Page 26

  • Rivuzu 1 Jan 2019 21:44:07 17,875 posts
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    Loved that. Think I got all the endings.

    Lots of fun, especially the uh... forth wall breaking moments.
  • RighteousPickle 2 Jan 2019 12:54:49 105 posts
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    Charlie Brookers previous show dead set is on Netflix apparently. I don't know if it's any good but I'll give it go, The rest of the black mirror season doesn't sound like it's going to drop imminently anyway.
  • ZuluHero 2 Jan 2019 13:04:15 7,194 posts
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    DeadSet was really good.

    It had a particularly strong poignant effect on me as it was set just after the only series of Big Brother that I watched and was invested in, so to see the former housemates turn into zombies was great.

    Not sure how people will feel not knowing who they are, but its still a good story.
  • chrisp 2 Jan 2019 14:16:45 1,140 posts
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    I had zero interest in Big Brother but thought Dead Set was fantastic. Haven't seen it since the original E4 broadcast, time for a rewatch.
  • vanDevious 2 Jan 2019 14:54:23 360 posts
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    I enjoyed it, my partner was on her phone and not even trying to answer by the end of it though. I would have preferred maybe for the credits to roll before giving me the other options but I was also really impressed by how smooth the cuts were between choices.

    Enjoyed the Croydon shots too.
  • cowell 2 Jan 2019 20:08:47 1,782 posts
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    Apologies if I am repeating myself but if Bandersnatch has put you in the mood for more Brooker, the Inside BM book has been a great read so far.

    He was also on the Adam Buxton podcast in May and that was pretty cool too.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 2 Jan 2019 21:28:28 9,479 posts
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    Dead Set was a lot of fun. Definitely watch.
  • SambaApe 2 Jan 2019 21:45:34 1,296 posts
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    Watched Bandersnatch. Found it interesting, but 2.5 stars out of 5.

    A bit dull.
  • wizbob 3 Jan 2019 11:45:13 908 posts
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    @SambaApe

    So which is it, interesting or dull? I can see how a show that requires you to make binary decisions could be problematic!
  • ZuluHero 3 Jan 2019 11:49:49 7,194 posts
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    I like how you're also forcing him to make a binary choice.
  • chopsen 3 Jan 2019 12:35:59 20,458 posts
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    I actually agree with him.

    It is an interesting idea executed well, in kind of meta-ness of it being a interactive narrative where your choices are often forced, based in universe where free will is is an illusion and , driven by a Mcguffin which is a game which is based on book of interactive fiction.

    BUT

    In terms of more traditional narrative things like an actual story to engage you it felt a bit clunky and weirdly unengaged emotionally (despite being literally engaged in having to click stuff).

    It reminded me a lot of how story and narrative tends to be a bit shit in games generally, especially the "interactive movie" type stuff you saw in the 90s. By surrendering control of the narrative, you inherently make it less well crafted as you have less control over how things unfold. You also need to limit the level of interactivity because you can't "code" (and rehearse, and shoot) for every single possible decision an situation gives.

    So yeah, it was "interesting" but I don't think I enjoyed myself particularly.

    Edited by chopsen at 12:36:38 03-01-2019
  • JYM60 3 Jan 2019 14:07:54 17,607 posts
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    I don't usually watch Black Mirror, but was hearing buzz about this recent episode so gave it a watch.

    By that I mean gave it a watch for 20 minutes. Jesus it was so boring.
  • RichDC 3 Jan 2019 14:16:29 8,149 posts
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    I agree with Samba and Chopsen. An interesting experiment, but generally a bit dull. I did like meta bits though.
  • SambaApe 3 Jan 2019 20:14:38 1,296 posts
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    @wizbob it’s an interesting idea and I am keen to see it better explored in the future. This example was dull IMHO however.
  • SambaApe 3 Jan 2019 20:15:39 1,296 posts
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    @chopsen Couldn’t have put it better myself.
  • chopsen 3 Jan 2019 21:39:19 20,458 posts
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    Dunno, mate. The grammar in all but the final para if fucking shocking.
  • SambaApe 3 Jan 2019 22:42:09 1,296 posts
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    @chopsen I must admit, I did like your use of ‘meta-ness’. 😃
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 3 Jan 2019 23:33:01 9,479 posts
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    I think you all need the homework of playing through the Netflix version of Minecraft Storymode
  • wizbob 4 Jan 2019 01:06:16 908 posts
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    I thought that the Mohan Thakur and Colin Ritman characters were pretty good. You're going to get much better writing for interactive video than Bandersnatch - the last thirty years have produced awful stuff.
  • drhickman1983 4 Jan 2019 19:51:38 5,724 posts
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    Watched Bandersnatch, thought it was an interesting-enough diversion but ultimately all a bit *dismissive shrug*

    Not sure if I've seen every ending or loop, but can't say I care if I haven't.

    I think the biggest problem is that I didn't really care or like the main characters, which now that I think about it, is the main problem I have with the Black Mirror episodes I dislike.
  • hedben2013 6 Jan 2019 08:49:39 970 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    I think you all need the homework of playing through the Netflix version of Minecraft Storymode
    Has any videogames site addressed whether Bandersnatch is a game they'd review? The paralells with Telltale are even more obvious given they've used the same technology on Netflix. Or is Minecraft story mode on Netflix no longer a game because they removed the QuickTime events and walking around stuff?

    (Yes I realize this us a trivial distinction but I'm bored on Sunday morning)
  • chopsen 6 Jan 2019 12:01:02 20,458 posts
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    Yeah I think it's an interesting question.

    A lot of telltale's games were barely games anyway, with illusory choices leading to pretty much the same story unfolding regardless. That, imho, made them better experiences, because offering choice compromises coherent narrative, but allowing for choices to have a real impact is impractical, thereby making it neither fish nor foul and just making for a shit experience. Is something like this story telling or is it a game? Even though this sort of thing is decades old, we still mostly shoehorn these kind of things in to the "game" category. Bandersnatch doesn't by virtue of the platform people experience it on, rather than anything functionally that sets it appart.

    Fwiw, I found some of telltale's output far more entertaining and fun than Bandersnatch, purely from a "how much fun am I having spending my time doing this thing" point of view..
  • ZuluHero 6 Jan 2019 12:19:11 7,194 posts
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    ZuluHero will remember that.
  • chopsen 6 Jan 2019 12:28:03 20,458 posts
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    67% of other players didn't response to ZuluHero's post.
  • ZuluHero 6 Jan 2019 12:32:04 7,194 posts
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    Wow, that's lower than I expected ;)
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 6 Jan 2019 12:46:41 9,479 posts
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    I think people being upset by how drastic or not their choices affect games like the TellTale ones or Life is Strange have come at it from the wrong angle.

    The "illusion" of choice that comes with a broadly fixed narrative is a strength of those games. The level of interaction helping you become more engaged and invested while the bigger story is told coherently around you.

    I think Bandersnatch does the same thing very well.

    Also I 100% do not buy that 'those games aren't really games' argument some people come out with. Sure they're not action titles or whatever but you're still engaged and playing them. So what if it's a dialogue choice or another gun firing.
  • drhickman1983 6 Jan 2019 12:53:42 5,724 posts
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    The "illusion" of choice that comes with a broadly fixed narrative is a strength of those games. The level of interaction helping you become more engaged and invested while the bigger story is told coherently around you.
    Well thats the idea, when it works well. I enjoyed the first walking dead for that very reason.

    I don't agree that Bandersnatch did it very well, as I just didn't feel invested or engaged. I was curious to see what happened, but there's a difference between being curious and actually caring.
  • chopsen 6 Jan 2019 13:01:35 20,458 posts
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    I don't have any problem with the lack of dramatic effect my choices have in telltale's stuff and the like. Like I said, it allows for a better experience due to the coherence of the experience that unfolds.

    I think Bandersnatch was not great because not only did it get that balance wrong, but in any case the underlying narrative that was being laid out wasn't that strong in the first place.

    If this, or telltale et al, can be called "games" or not is a semantic argument really, so is not really that interesting an argument to have. I absolutely can see that it is rational to *not* call them games. You can reductio ad absurdum the argument to the point where watching any film or series at home is a game, as you have the ability to fast forward through bits, or pause it, or watch the director's cut vs the theatrical cut etc.

    Edited by chopsen at 13:04:52 06-01-2019
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 6 Jan 2019 14:21:41 9,479 posts
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    I think it's a mistake to separate the in universe narrative and the interactive element with this.

    It's all one meta-textual Philip K Dick nightmare and considering how many episodes in the past boil down to "social media is bad" having a big piece about free will, narrative structure, audience complicity and the rest is up there with Big Themes as far as Black Mirror goes.
  • drhickman1983 6 Jan 2019 14:27:23 5,724 posts
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    Oh it's fairly clever thematically compared to a lot of stuff out there, but clever =/= engrossing
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