lavalant wrote:It isn't just for posting crap. They were trying to organise potentially hundreds of thousands of pounds in criminal damage and theft. As for eviction politically weakening blah blah. The cunts weren't rioting for justice, they were looting. They said a big fuck you to society, so why should society look after them and house them? Fuck the cunts in their arseholes. You know what _I_ think they should do? Kick the cunts out, stop their benefits and then pick a homeless person and give the benefits + house to them. Balance it out. |
UK Riots 2011 • Page 175
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warlockuk 19,519 posts
Seen 2 weeks ago
Registered 17 years ago -
No they posted crap, no riot took place, no damage happened, it was a stupid thing to to post at the time by some bored teenagers, now they get 4 years, I dare you to post something similar on facebook or twitter, so much for freedom of speech.
There were riots at the Student protests, some students were caught up in it, why should they be made homeless? I'm all for evicting arseholes and persistent trouble makers from council houses but this is not what's happening, it's being used as a scare tactic. The poll tax riots, the miners riots they were all poor people who got screwed over by the government. -
warlockuk 19,519 posts
Seen 2 weeks ago
Registered 17 years agoFreedom of speech? They created an event for a riot and organised a meeting point and everything! It doesn't matter if no riot took place, they were attempting to cause one - and even if it wasn't their intent, they'd have attracted participants.
Imagine trying to buy drugs.
They weren't bored teenagers either, one of the twats is 22.
They're differentiating between protests and criminal damage/looting too I think... Otherwise they'd be seeking all 2,000 people from Manchester.
It seems that basically if you're caught stealing a TV, you have to watch it on the pavement. Or jail.
And of course it's being used as a scare tactic. They all thought they'd get away with it or couldn't be touched. People saw that and immediately you got copycat lootings all over the place. It has to be shown that if you're going to go on the rob because you think you can do what you want that the punishment is real. Sure, everyone has less than well thought out incidents when they're young and stupid - but it doesn't mean you get away with it. -
There's a difference between words and actions, if some people are stupid enough to go out and loot then be it on their own heads, not punish someone who wrote about doing it on facebook.
And I disagree, the government aren't making distinctions between protesting and criminal damage, if the government screwed us over as in what happened in Greece everyone should be able to go out and riot in the streets without being made homeless or having benefits cut. Protesting and rioting has always gone on in this country when the government leaves people no option, now the controls and measures coming in try to take that away, it's an erosion of democracy and leaves us with no teeth or real voice in a pathetic two tier party system, (3 if you live in Scotland or Wales.) -
warlockuk 19,519 posts
Seen 2 weeks ago
Registered 17 years agoBut it is an action. Creating the page, allowing people to join and doing the organisation is an action.
If you posted on a forum "£1000 to murder my wife" with dates, times and other information and the police stop the deed being done you've still attempted murder. Even though it's just words.
These cunts wrote words - yes - to start up a copycat riot. That's the crime of incitement to riot.
It's also why Charles Manson has spent most of his life behind bars. He didn't kill anyone but he talked a load of people into doing some batshit stuff. Only words. No actions.
Creating the group and writing the words to organise everything _is_ an action.
I agree our democracy is eroded. But if you're going to riot and attack someone - attack the government. Not people's homes and shops. -
FWB 56,369 posts
Seen 6 months ago
Registered 20 years agoChances are it will be appealed and reduced. Though not sure if that's the point. Four years does seem pretty harsh, given the what you get for doing far worse IMHO. -
I think four years is fine, and if it seems harsh in comparison to other sentances, then those others need to be extended, it seems harsh because the others are too lenient, not because it actually is harsh in the slightest. -
Eh it sounds like one of the guys was out on the piss, got home and thought it would be a laugh to post a facebook page, then he woke up in the morning, realised what he had done and deleted the page and apologised to everyone. I don't think that's really worthy of 4 years in prison, in fact I think a custodial sentence is a joke. -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
Seen 7 days ago
Registered 20 years agoIncitement to violence is one of many crimes that have been on the book for years. Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime.
If you were planning to murder someone or rob someone but didn't go through with the act you can still face years behind bars. I'm a wee bit unsure why trying to start a riot should be treated more leniently.
Perhaps someone can correct me if I am wrong but local authorities have had the power to chuck people out of council housing if they are convicted of a crime for decades. It's not new, it's just in the news.
If the government goes and screws us over, (IF!
) then we have the right to protest. Peacefully. No one has the 'right' to riot. You might feel you have reason to riot but if the law disagrees with you it's only your own fault.
Saying all that, the governments words over controlling social media are more than a tad worrying. Never mind though, the Great British Public will huff and puff a little bit then roll over with their belly in the air. -
Sponz 702 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoSorry if its already been posted...
Rioters are kids -
Nasty 4,840 posts
Seen 8 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoAaronTurner wrote:
Eh it sounds like one of the guys was out on the piss, got home and thought it would be a laugh to post a facebook page, then he woke up in the morning, realised what he had done and deleted the page and apologised to everyone. I don't think that's really worthy of 4 years in prison, in fact I think a custodial sentence is a joke.
I managed to go out on the piss and not come home and start a riot inducing facebook page. Being pissed and being sorry is not an excuse (although I'm guessing he is more sorry he got caught rather than sorry he actually did it).
Harsh, but I 100% support these lengthy sentences. As said, all it does do is highlight how lenient previous sentencing has been.
I watched some bleeding heart mother on the news last night going on about how her 14 year old son just got caught up in it all and it wasn't his fault. Bollocks. London is full of thousands of 14 year old boys who didn't go out and nick shit from their local Spar. I don't see the politicians thanking them or their parents for not being tards. No, apparently our entire society is fucked. -
Four years for a joke? Give me a break. -
Red-Moose 5,344 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 19 years agoGreat plan. Without actually committing any real crime, just the imaginarium thought crime.
I wonder would Chamberlain have taken Hitler seriously if Hitler made a Facebook group to "Invade Europe". "Well we know you've got tanks blowing up shit all over the place and the SS are gassing millions of jews, but now you've gone TOO FAR with your Facebook group." -
spindizzy 7,755 posts
Seen 4 weeks ago
Registered 17 years ago....and we've been godwinned. -
Slight timeline wonkiness there, Moose! -
MetalDog 24,076 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 20 years agoIncitement to riot/commit violence is a crime and has been for an awfully long time. The only real question is how serious the remarks were intended to be and how clear this was to the people who were the 'target'.
If someone is just having a laugh and its obvious to most people including the targets, but not obvious to the courts, we have a problem - just think about some of the jokes we crack here.
On the other hand there are some things most of us know better than to say even in jest. Usually concerning bombs and planes while standing in customs. Tricky. -
The Guardian reported that both were of good character before this conviction, maybe I'm taking the words out of context but I take that to mean that they haven't been in trouble before. So write a riot facebook page when drunk, take it down of your own volition when you wake up the following morning and apologise to everyone that saw it = 4 years for a first time offence? That's just awful. -
Don't worry AT, this is all part of the CRUSH THE CRIMS, KILL EM ALLLLL
I fully expect all car related crimes - speeding, tickets, minor accidents etc, to be met with similar vengeance. Let's see how the public react. -
warlockuk 19,519 posts
Seen 2 weeks ago
Registered 17 years agoMost murderers are first time offenders of good character. It doesn't matter whether or not their intent was real, what they created could've resulted in an actual incident. At best it's neglegence.
If they were joking, but a riot had occured (ie they'd not been stopped) then what. Oh, we didn't mean it won't wash when there's some granny's house being burgled by looters. -
And you think sending this guy to prison for 4 years is the way he's going to learn never to make a joke post on Facebook again? It's a waste of money, it's a waste of his life and it's not going to teach anyone anything except a hatred for authority. -
Red-Moose 5,344 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 19 years agoRedSparrows wrote:
Slight timeline wonkiness there, Moose!
It's a quiet rainy day.gif)
and I am grasping at straws. Still, 16 months for stealing Krispy Kreme doughnutsis a little bit too tough IMO. -
I bet you that if the rioting had had no effect on shops and the damage caused was purely residential then the sentences would not have been so quick or harsh.
Its ridiculous this type of sentencing because it send out a message that you will get a lighter sentence if you commit a crime that isn't during a riot.
Rapists and proper scum wiith previous get lighter sentences. I wonder what sentence someonewould get if they raped a shopkeeper during ariot. Maybe the rest of us should create continuous riots so that harsher sentences will be handed out to those that commit serious crime.
This is all so that one section of society can point the finger and shake fists at another thus making themselves feel better in some perverse way.
The government has been trying to create polarity in society for ages to create fear which then enables new laws to be rushed in. i just dont think people will buy it though. (At least i hope not).
Just wait for all the appeals to come out now and for faith and trust in the legal system to be further eroded. -
chopsen 21,958 posts
Seen 11 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoMadder-Max wrote:
Its ridiculous this type of sentencing because it send out a message that you will get a lighter sentence if you commit a crime that isn't during a riot.
So it acts as a disincentive to rioting. Sounds sensible to me. -
Red-Moose wrote:
RedSparrows wrote:
Slight timeline wonkiness there, Moose!
It's a quiet rainy day and I am grasping at straws. Still, 16 months for stealing Krispy Kreme doughnutsis a little bit too tough IMO.
16 months! They should have been sent to Australia! -
Chopsen wrote:
Madder-Max wrote:
Its ridiculous this type of sentencing because it send out a message that you will get a lighter sentence if you commit a crime that isn't during a riot.
So it acts as a disincentive to rioting. Sounds sensible to me.
soooo you would prefer for people to be committing more serious crimes not during a riot and therefore get a lighter sentence? For example Ken Clarkes sentencing ideas for rapists? -
Nexus_6 6,169 posts
Seen 7 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoYou are mentioning that out of context though RM - he was a serial offender only just released from prison!
Not a harsh sentence in my opinion. -
Murbs 25,152 posts
Seen 6 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoEl_MUERkO wrote:
Red-Moose wrote:
RedSparrows wrote:
Slight timeline wonkiness there, Moose!
It's a quiet rainy day and I am grasping at straws. Still, 16 months for stealing Krispy Kreme doughnutsis a little bit too tough IMO.
16 months! They should have been sent to Australia!
A serial offender committing burglary and breaching an asbo? 100 convictions from 233 offences? They're being lenient if you ask me. It's all about context. -
Red-Moose wrote:
RedSparrows wrote:
Slight timeline wonkiness there, Moose!
It's a quiet rainy day and I am grasping at straws. Still, 16 months for stealing Krispy Kreme doughnutsis a little bit too tough IMO.
If you can't do the time, donut do the crime -
Tom_Servo 18,079 posts
Seen 7 years ago
Registered 11 years agoThe oddest bit so far has been the guy with 16 prior convictions getting a six-month suspended sentence, while the student with no prior convictions was given six months inside for stealing a bottle of water. -
Until one of the judges puts a black cloth on top of his wig, I'm not going complain about harsh sentences.
) then we have the right to protest. Peacefully. No one has the 'right' to riot. You might feel you have reason to riot but if the law disagrees with you it's only your own fault..gif)
and I am grasping at straws. Still, 
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