A cup full of fried cheese? .gif) |
Why do we have (likely) the most expensive train service in the world? • Page 2
-
-
Red-Moose 5,344 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 19 years agoonly on christmas? -
yegon 6,511 posts
Seen 5 months ago
Registered 18 years agoI work for Northern, they received a £339m subsidy last year and made a £40m pre-tax profit, up from £29m the previous year. They spend **** all on the things that matter, instead preferring to push initiatives like pot plants at stations that cost peanuts. The propaganda sheet staff receive through the post every month has to be seen to be believed - think Stalinist Russia and reports of great harvests, while everyone (passengers in this case) around you starves, and you're about there.
Complaining to front line staff, drivers/guards/platform staff, is pointless, we're generally in 100% in agreement with passengers (provided you're sober and not swearing at us) but, obviously, have zero influence. -
localnotail 23,079 posts
Seen 2 weeks ago
Registered 13 years agoThere are many problems that need dealing with. Privatisation maximized profit at the expense of investment and good services. There is no way it should be cheaper to drive from Brum to London & back than get a return train ticket, but it usually is, even with today's prices. 3 mostly empty 1st Class carriages isn't helping.
As to the rail link, well, here are the thoughts of a pinko liberal environment protester friend of mine:
The west coast mainline is one of the most complex rail systems in the world. It was not built in one go but as a series of smaller railways that are the oldest passenger rail lines in the world. The mix of freight, local and intercity city rail using the same signalling and rail system means it is very difficult to co-ordinate all the various types of traffic using it from London to Glasgow. By creating a new dedicated rail corridor to high speed standard all the headaches of squeezing more toothpaste down the same tube becomes much less of a worry.
It amounts to creating a new transport corridor that will be there in 150 years time. As we have lived of off the infrastructure of the past we must leave better for the future.
Consider this if labour had started this in 1997 when they were elected it would already be running and we would be looking forward to the Leeds and Manchester branches in 2017. Getting this type of project done started means it will be there for a very long time. The huge additional capacity offered by the new rail line cannot be created by extending platforms. That will "solve" the problem for a few years.
This will also free up capacity to allow other regional lines in the midlands to create more services on the lines currently being used by London to Brum trains. -
senso-ji 10,271 posts
Seen 7 hours ago
Registered 13 years agoHas there been an explanation as to why is will cost £32 billion? That is just over half the defence budget from last year. -
Ged42 7,985 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 14 years agolocalnotail wrote:
Don't let the Government hear you say that, they'll up the tax on petrol.
There is no way it should be cheaper to drive from Brum to London & back than get a return train ticket, but it usually is, even with today's prices.
-
Lukey__b 3,716 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 12 years agoJust speaking about Bristol and the surrounding area (Bath, N. Somerset, Gloucestershire) the service isn't too bad. I can get within a 10 - 15 minute walk of where I need to go for half the price it would cost on the bus and usually in less than 1/4 of the time (depending on where I am going).
On the other hand, it is probably going to be cheaper for me to hire a car for a day and buy the petrol than it is for me to go buy train to get from Leicester to Bristol and back. I won't have to deal with a 3+ hour journey each way either. -
spamdangled 31,803 posts
Seen 3 days ago
Registered 13 years agoAnotherIdiot wrote:
Yeah, keep telling yourself that mate.
It is expensive because brits demand the highest quality service -
When I used to commute into Manchester the rail icket costs were nearly £300 a month.
Does seem incredibly expensive. That coupled with the fact that I was a twenty, or more, a day smoker so that was another £2-300 a month.
Stupid. -
PedalingSquares 28 posts
Seen 10 years ago
Registered 10 years agosenso-ji wrote:
I too don't understand why capital projects in the UK cost so much. The Edinburgh tram line is costing £100m per mile (800 million for 8 miles that is already served by an excellent bus service!) while the average cost for an urban tram system is £25m per mile.
Has there been an explanation as to why is will cost £32 billion? That is just over half the defence budget from last year.
Seems a bit too mental to me! -
mal 29,326 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 20 years agoI suspect that quite a lot of the money will go on legal costs. As I understand it, the French use a 'no backsies' system whereby if a new government development needs the land your house it pays you something approximating to a fair market rate and sends you on your way. In the UK you get paid a fraction of that value, and are positively expected to sue the government, which of course takes a while and costs an absolute bomb in legal fees, not forgetting unspecified delays to the project. -
RichieTenenbaum 2,774 posts
Seen 11 months ago
Registered 11 years agoSeriously, British Rail had the system right with a fixed cost, pence per mile system. Now they've fucked it royally with a stupid system where you need to book 2 months in advance not to get shafted. Awful! And they get shit loads of subsides.
Most other European countries have got fine trains. The system here simply does not make sense at all.
It all needs renationalising. -
richardiox 10,097 posts
Seen 2 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoWhen you book a ticket in advance do they charge you when you book or the day you travel? If its the former it's no surprise all the 'good' deals revolve around booking your exact trains months in advance.
'Returns from £12' etc. Travel on the day that same journey costs £100. Fucking madness. -
disusedgenius 10,677 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 14 years agoYeah, it's the former. -
richardiox 10,097 posts
Seen 2 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoTotal bullshit, I don't want to be coerced into up front payments for a fucking train journey. And have to commit to my exact time of travel and if you miss either train having to pay full price again. Even though you've paid them. Months ago. Not what public transport is about at all. It's supposed to be a public service.
Due to this coercion tactic when I do just want to 'roll up' and get a train somewhere often there's no seats as 80% have been advance booked, It's a cluster fuck. -
FWB 56,369 posts
Seen 6 months ago
Registered 20 years agoSo why do the Japanese private rail companies function so perfectly? -
richardiox 10,097 posts
Seen 2 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoI think ours function ok actually. Not great by any means but 'ok'. My grievance is with the prices, multiple fare types and marketing based solely on paying them in advance.
A return from Leeds to London costs me £100 on the day. It's a two hour journey. Something is clearly wrong. -
faux-C 11,204 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 17 years ago@localnotail
I'm not against HS2 per se, but I think the money should be invested in local services before worrying about more trains from London to X. Roll back the Beeching reforms first, electrify lines that are still diesel, then build super bullet trains or whatever. -
Ged42 7,985 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 14 years agoI'm pissed at wasting £70 on two tickets to manchester which I'd booked months ago. Unfortunately my wife has got the flu and we can't go.
Of course Virgin trains don't do refunds on Advance tickets. -
PazJohnMitch 17,276 posts
Seen 17 hours ago
Registered 14 years agoGed42 wrote:
It normally costs me about £15 advanced return between London and Tamworth on London Midland. (Tamworth is 15 miles from Brum).
localnotail wrote:
Don't let the Government hear you say that, they'll up the tax on petrol.
There is no way it should be cheaper to drive from Brum to London & back than get a return train ticket, but it usually is, even with today's prices.
If it is cheaper than that by car then the tax on petrol is not enough! -
oceanmotion 17,358 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 18 years agoIs the high speed railway the one that goes the great distance of London to Birmingham. Reminds of that Eurostar link that went to round the corner after it reached London. The y promise something, spend billions and come up short with a shit service.
I don't think it's a mystery that British railways are old and they are wasting their time and money trying to fit new things in the same lines. It needs a proper rethink, ripped out of private companies hands and also clueless politicians poking their fingers in and causing trouble. Other countries have managed it and we should too. They need a long tern plan that no future government can change or mess with when they get into power because it never ends and your left with something shit. -
When it was initially being privatised the recommendation was to not break it up and to keep the track ownership and the train operation within the hands of one company. What the Government (Labour?) chose is the exact opposite of that recommendation which has failed everywhere else as much as it has here. -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agoPerhaps one of the problems comes from the fact that many of the lines are frigging ancient, laid out and designed for a long gone era and probably not very well maintained for much of the latter period of nationalisation. -
localnotail 23,079 posts
Seen 2 weeks ago
Registered 13 years ago@faux_carnation I don't know what the best answer is, but I don't think there is cash or inclination right now for your plan. Both are needed, but everything is profit-driven, not environmentally sensible.
@PazJohnMitch Key word there is advance. I can get cheapish tickets if I buy a fair time in advance, although still in the £20 region, no idea why it's cheaper from Tammy. Also London Midland take ages and they often have delays, so I dislike using them.
If I miss that train though, or I need to travel at short notice, I'm looking at ~£75 most of the time, especially on the fast Virgin trains. Mad. I could fly for less. -
Dougs 100,414 posts
Seen 18 hours ago
Registered 18 years agoAargh. wrote:
Privatisation was the corner stone of Maggie's govt, surely?
When it was initially being privatised the recommendation was to not break it up and to keep the track ownership and the train operation within the hands of one company. What the Government (Labour?) chose is the exact opposite of that recommendation which has failed everywhere else as much as it has here. -
Don't forget people, half the reason trains get delayed is from the cunts who steal the fucking cables 3 days of the week.
Edited by Lexx87 at 16:34:41 08-01-2012 -
oldskooldeano 3,496 posts
Seen 45 minutes ago
Registered 18 years agoAargh. wrote:
It was the tories who privatised the railways. It was the only public utility left in 1993 after Thatcher sold off the rest. Sad that it has only taken 15 years or so to totally screw up our public railway system. Labour promised to renationalise the railways if they got into power. But they didn't.
When it was initially being privatised the recommendation was to not break it up and to keep the track ownership and the train operation within the hands of one company. What the Government (Labour?) chose is the exact opposite of that recommendation which has failed everywhere else as much as it has here.
Also I am not sure but it may have been an EU directive to keep the tracks separate from the trains themselves.
Edited by riz23 at 16:30:45 08-01-2012 -
terminalterror 18,932 posts
Seen 6 days ago
Registered 20 years agoI'm in favour of renationalising along the lines of the way the DLR and Overground services in London are run. The trains are run by private companies, but all the decisions are made by TFL. Profit can be more closely tied to standards of service.
The DLR generally runs very smoothly, and the Overground is fantastic (whilst I never went on the NLL or ELL before they became the Overground, I've heard the horror stories of Silverlink).
Nationally, you would have larger networks that National Rail set standards for, then whatever company can bid to actually run things according to the strict standards laid down by National Rail, if they fail to meet punctuality/cleanliness/capacity targets then they lose their profit. -
mal 29,326 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 20 years agoI may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure Apex (advance) fares were available under British Rail back in the day. Perhaps the ratio between the second class peak fare and the advance fare is greater these days - it'd make sense given the latter is the advertised price - but it's an awfully long time ago and my memory isn't that good.
Labour did renationalise Railtrack didn't they? Although to be honest that was inevitable as it was practically impossible to run that service profitably, and they only did renationalise it once it had hit the buffers (ahem, sorry). -
FWB wrote:
Because they knew what they're doing. The Japanese rail system was privatized in the late 80s to fix the problems that the British Rail companies have now.
So why do the Japanese private rail companies function so perfectly?
However, this didn't happen without some controversy as the private companies that came in did some pretty bold things like close certain routes and stations in rural areas that weren't considered profitable enough. If any company did that in this country there'd be outrage.
Sometimes posts may contain links to online retail stores. If you click on one and make a purchase we may receive a small commission. For more information, go here.
