Any musicians here?! Page 73

  • monkman76 4 May 2021 10:26:28 18,583 posts
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    Argh, I'm up to Billie Jean in the course. I'M NOT READY FOR THIS YET JOSH! I've only just started with string crossing!

    Even the first two notes are kicking my arse (pinky on 4D and ring on 4A). I can play them OK, but not with correct muting - I'm still getting noise from the D string when playing the A string. Can't seem to lift pressure independently between my pinky and ring fingers. Don't think I've ever needed to do that on guitar (though I'm sure it'll be a useful skill to learn).

    This is a real test of my earlier claim that I like repetitive practice of one tiny thing, over and over :/
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 10:52:15 38,709 posts
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    haha, and there it is :)

    Don't worry - *everyone* on the course have said exactly the same as you. It's a bit of a boss if you like, to see what you've learned so far and a bit of health check of your skills. As Josh says at the start - this is advanced for where you are at the moment.

    I practiced it on slow until I could nail it. There was little point me trying to force myself to do it fast, because there were too many mistakes at that speed.

    One of the things that will help is making your pinky independent from your ring finger. This is kind of a test to see if you can do that (as well as string crossing!)

    Tbh, I wouldn't worry about it on the higher speeds - maybe nail it at the slow speed, do a few more modules and then come back to it. I'm going to pick up a bass right now and just see if I can do it off the top of my head.

    /2 minutes passes

    Ok, that was more difficult than I thought, haha

    I can do it on medium at the moment at a guess, but what I have to do is roll my pinky from the 4D to the 4A, so it doesn't actually leave the D but ends up on the D and the A, covering both notes. Obviously you've then got to move quickly to do the rest of the riff, but that's how my fingers have just this minute tried to do it.

    If you want even more bad news, the original version actually has octaves in it as well - think it's on the first D and and then on the A. That's even more fun.
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 10:55:59 38,709 posts
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    You've got your index finger on the E when starting the riff yeah, in place ready?

    I didn't look at the tab, I just chose a shape somewhere on the neck as you can play it anywhere, so the notes might be different

    Edited by quadfather at 10:56:53 04-05-2021
  • monkman76 4 May 2021 11:01:08 18,583 posts
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    My right hand index finger? Yeah that's resting on the E. To be honest it's not my right hand struggling with this, it's the fretting mostly - though I am having to keep some 'mental real estate' available for the right hand to make sure I'm alternating properly, so I can't fully concentrate on the fretting.

    edit - Oh wait, I meant my right *thumb*. You mean left index finger on the E note on the D string, yes? Yeah I'm trying to keep that there, ready.

    Yeah maybe I should try the pinky rolling from 4D to 4A. I've done that on guitar. But the strings are much narrower and closer together on guitar :)

    Edited by monkman76 at 11:02:14 04-05-2021
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 11:10:03 38,709 posts
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    Yeah, sorry, left hand, not right hand.

    Rolling definitely works - but yes, getting a decent tone will take a bit of practice as it's so quick you need to be off and on it in a split second.

    What does Josh recommend for the left hand finger placement - I can't remember?

    It's all good though, because a) you'll get it soon, and b) when you go back to guitar, you'll look at it and go, blimey, look how *small* it is - it's like playing snooker for 3 hours and then going and having a game of pool - it's a piece of piss!
  • monkman76 4 May 2021 11:12:09 18,583 posts
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    Josh recommends pinky on 4D, ring on 4A, but also mentions the option of pinky on both, rollin'.
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 11:13:40 38,709 posts
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    One thing I do with it, is split it into 2 in my head which helps me visualise it better on the fretboard

    First part in my head is 4D, 4A, 2D, 4D, 2D
    Second part is just the 4A, 2A, 4A

    I break it down and play the individual bits a million times and then put them together - I find it helps free up some mental capacity to then help you focus and improve, instead of being at 100% busy all the time in your head.

    Helps me visualise the shapes too. It's probably one of the easiest shapes going, but the note selection is evil :)
  • monkman76 4 May 2021 11:14:59 18,583 posts
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    Yeah totally. For now I'm just focusing on 4D 4A, then occasionally throwing in the 2D if I'm feeling cocky.
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 11:17:11 38,709 posts
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    monkman76 wrote:
    Josh recommends pinky on 4D, ring on 4A, but also mentions the option of pinky on both, rollin'.
    Ah that's right. I've just tried it again using pinky on 4D and ring on 4A and it's much better. In fact, I've just watched my left hand, and my ring finger only moves once throughout the entire riff, right at the end - and even then, it just lifts up and down again - doesn't move anywhere.

    I think the rolling method is a quick one, but it definitely felt easier just then with individual fingers.
  • wuntyate 4 May 2021 11:18:26 17,031 posts
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    Finger rolling on bass is something I always struggle with. I'm going to try Billie Jean when I'm back home later and laugh at how much I'll not be able to play it.

    Don't fret (lol) over it too much though as it is very much a ball breaker as quaddy says - and a check point for you skills. It tails off again afterwards so by all means carry on and go back to it.
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 11:18:32 38,709 posts
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    @monkman76

    You'll get it - I guarantee it.

    Good courses aren't they :)
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 11:19:45 38,709 posts
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    I think the recommended method of using ring and pinky is better for two reasons - one, once you've got it, your hands will hardly move anywhere which is always the optimum choice, and two - it'll help massively with the independence between ring and pinky
  • monkman76 4 May 2021 11:22:16 18,583 posts
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    wuntyate wrote:
    Finger rolling on bass is something I always struggle with. I'm going to try Billie Jean when I'm back home later and laugh at how much I'll not be able to play it.

    Don't fret (lol) over it too much though as it is very much a ball breaker as quaddy says - and a check point for you skills. It tails off again afterwards so by all means carry on and go back to it.
    The masochist in me kind of wants to drill those two notes over and over for a week, until they ring correctly and separately. I should probably move on though :)
  • monkman76 4 May 2021 11:23:33 18,583 posts
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    quadfather wrote:
    @monkman76

    You'll get it - I guarantee it.

    Good courses aren't they :)
    Yeah I don't regret spending the money, it's good to have something with such a rigid structure. Also Josh is likeable, in a dorky way. He should lay off some of the jokes though :)
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 11:27:25 38,709 posts
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    @monkman76

    Practice it however you want - it's entirely your choice. I probably did similar with certain bits where different fingers were weaker etc just to strengthen it. It's actually a really good exercise to get going as it covers a few skills in one riff.

    I like his jokes - it gives me a breather in-between the next fast run, but yeah, he's very talented, very knowledgeable but is humble enough about it. Don't get many like that in my experience.
  • wuntyate 4 May 2021 11:28:32 17,031 posts
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    monkman76 wrote:
    wuntyate wrote:
    Finger rolling on bass is something I always struggle with. I'm going to try Billie Jean when I'm back home later and laugh at how much I'll not be able to play it.

    Don't fret (lol) over it too much though as it is very much a ball breaker as quaddy says - and a check point for you skills. It tails off again afterwards so by all means carry on and go back to it.
    The masochist in me kind of wants to drill those two notes over and over for a week, until they ring correctly and separately. I should probably move on though :)
    No harm in working on it intermittently mind. You'll find you'll get it quicker than you think I'll bet.
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 11:30:12 38,709 posts
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    Yeah, I used it as a warm up for later lessons, and then came back later and I'm comfortable with it now, but still have to really get into the zone to nail it.
  • wuntyate 4 May 2021 11:32:08 17,031 posts
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    I dropped it as soon as I played it full speed, declared myself amazing and never played it again. Rest assured it'll sound like shit when I try now.
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 11:45:59 38,709 posts
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    It took me a few minutes, but I'm back in the groove now. I can't play the original with octaves though. Well, I haven't given it much practice, thinking about it.

    Actually, I do use that shape a fair bit when doing fills at the end of a bar. Maybe I could spice them up a bit.

    Maybe for a slow one anyway, not the fast stuff. My fast stuff is your slow stuff - unless it's a straightforward 3 chord change, I'm fucked at anything over about 130bpm ish

    Which is probably where I should practice. I might see how comfortable I am with 16th notes on an ever increasing tempo and see where I can get to.
  • wuntyate 4 May 2021 12:03:54 17,031 posts
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    @quadfather Where would I find the original tab with octaves?
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 12:46:07 38,709 posts
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    @wuntyate

    Tricky to find as the original was played on a synth, though some cover bands play it on bass guitar.

    Basically, have a look at this -

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m2GS-lJqHum3sFku1e9NxeVF68kuipV2/view?usp=drivesdk

    That's the main standard one that starts in F#. The octave is definitely on that's first F#, and then I *think* the next one is that E on the D string. You have to sort of play it in your head to work out where it goes.
  • quadfather 4 May 2021 12:46:57 38,709 posts
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    Nope, I'm wrong again! haha

    Basically, this guy sums it up - skip to a minute and a half or somewhere around there -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcz9S5ynnR0

    Edited by quadfather at 12:47:34 04-05-2021
  • monkman76 7 May 2021 15:43:14 18,583 posts
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    I've more or less got Billie Jean nailed, slowly, scruffily and with flying fretting fingers, but I'll take it. (And continue to work on it of course.) GET IN
  • monkman76 7 May 2021 15:44:10 18,583 posts
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    Oh, in case someone misinterprets the above - the kid is not my son.
  • quadfather 7 May 2021 15:45:31 38,709 posts
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    @monkman76

    Nice one. His courses are so good at breaking things down that it's actually harder not to learn it.

    All you need now is practice to improve the tone and finger placement etc but they just come with time and practice.

    Boss 1 down!
  • wuntyate 7 May 2021 16:33:18 17,031 posts
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    @monkman76 good shit chief!
  • quadfather 12 May 2021 17:43:53 38,709 posts
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    erm

    justboughtanotherbass


    cough
  • wuntyate 12 May 2021 19:34:21 17,031 posts
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    YOU CAN'T PLAY THEM ALL AT ONCE YOU KNOW
  • wuntyate 12 May 2021 19:34:46 17,031 posts
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    Go on, tease me, what did you buy.
  • quadfather 13 May 2021 10:17:48 38,709 posts
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    @wuntyate

    I had to do it, you understand? This is the final piece of the jigsaw - the jazz ultra. Been looking for ages as they're always out of stock and saw 1 one last night. I've just remortgaged the house and had some cash left over, so put a deposit down and put the rest on monthly repayments of 35. But with the guilt out of the way, take a look -

    https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/190603344416008--fender-american-ultra-jazz-bass-cobra-blue-mn

    Edited by quadfather at 10:18:46 13-05-2021
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