Building A Gaming PC - Parts Advice Needed Page 187

  • Rogueywon 25 Sep 2020 14:15:03 9,484 posts
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    Well... it's fitted, has survived a 3dmark stress test and hasn't exploded my 'puter yet.
  • crashVoodoo 25 Sep 2020 17:11:28 6,798 posts
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    Is it noticeably better in anything?
  • challenge_hanukkah 25 Sep 2020 17:12:17 13,166 posts
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    It runs the original Crysis at 47fps at 720p
  • Rogueywon 25 Sep 2020 17:43:18 9,484 posts
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    @crashVoodoo Based on what I've seen this afternoon...

    - Big improvement in Borderlands 3. 4k/ultra/60fps is possible there, while the 2080Ti couldn't get even close.

    - Also a big improvement in Assassin's Creed: Origins. In 4k with everything maxed, there is the odd momentary dip below 60fps, but it's 99% locked.

    - Flight Simulator 2020 definitely moves a good chunk better. I did some laps of the "fancy" Heathrow with none of the slowdown that induced on the 2080Ti.

    - Serious Sam 4 with maxed settings in 4k had some serious stutter on the 2080Ti as the game hit the VRAM limit. That's gone on the 3090.

    What I've not tried yet is anything that uses ray-tracing or DLSS. Will move onto some games that use those this evening.
  • Rogueywon 25 Sep 2020 18:32:47 9,484 posts
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    The improvement is much more dramatic in ray-traced titles. Control really does shine now. Mechwarrior 5 was a slide-show on the 2080Ti with its RTX features at max, but is a near-locked 60 fps on this.
  • neems 25 Sep 2020 19:56:17 4,929 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:
    The improvement is much more dramatic in ray-traced titles. Control really does shine now. Mechwarrior 5 was a slide-show on the 2080Ti with its RTX features at max, but is a near-locked 60 fps on this.
    Do you have Metro Exodus?
  • Rogueywon 25 Sep 2020 20:33:33 9,484 posts
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    @neems Yes, but not currently installed. It was the first big killer title for the RTX cards, but it's neither the most demanding nor the best-looking RTX title.
  • dfunked09 25 Sep 2020 23:26:58 516 posts
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    Interesting... Sounds like the Asus TUF is one of the few ones that doesn't cheap out on the MLCC capacitors despite being one of the cheaper models. Curious if the pricier OC model has a different layout to the basic one.

    https://www.techpowerup.com/272591/rtx-3080-crash-to-desktop-problems-likely-connected-to-aib-designed-capacitor-choice

    Edited by dfunked09 at 23:37:56 25-09-2020
  • Rogueywon 25 Sep 2020 23:59:11 9,484 posts
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    @dfunked09 Yeah, I've seen those reports and have just spent the last few hours trying to throw everything I can at my 3090 to see if I can make it crash.

    So far, so good.

    Did an hour of Doom Eternal with no crashes, which seems to be the most reliable game for triggering a CTD. My GPU clock capped at 2010MHz, but no crashes.

    Edited by Rogueywon at 23:59:40 25-09-2020
  • the_milkybar_kid 26 Sep 2020 05:15:57 8,318 posts
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    I preordered the TUF but by the calculator, I'm something like 2250 in the queue, however accurate that is.
  • captbirdseye 26 Sep 2020 08:53:36 9,927 posts
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    It's looking like very small batches of stock from now until November. I'd probably jump ship and get my money back rather than it sit in some retailers account for months on end.

    Need more info on AMD as I'm still convinced this botched launch is down to Nvidia being concerned about AMDs product.

    Edited by captbirdseye at 08:54:18 26-09-2020
  • muddyyfunster 26 Sep 2020 09:42:41 282 posts
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    @dfunked09 tech YouTuber Jays2cents has a good video taking apart some of the cards to look at the board.

    Apparently most likely outcome is that many AIB cards might have to have a firmware update that caps the boost clocks which will reduce performance but prevent these crashes. What really should happen is a factory recall and replacement of the affected cards but given stock is already limited that seems unlikely. It's supposedly because some manufacturers made what they thought was a safe cost saving measure Vs ref spec. They couldn't actually test this properly as Nvidia were late with drivers. Accepting the issue will start a liability battle with several key partners.

    I suspect there might be an 'omerta' style silence for that reason. I reckon no formal acknowledgement from Nvidia followed by a mandatory firmware update for specific cards (that fixes an unspecified stability issue).

    If the practical impact on performance is only a couple of percent then it might be a storm in a teacup. Seems like a classic consequence of rushing a release to me.

    Edited by muddyyfunster at 09:43:38 26-09-2020
  • dfunked09 26 Sep 2020 09:47:27 516 posts
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    @muddyyfunster
    Yeah, watched that too last night. It's going to be a pretty negligible performance hit, but kind of kills any OC potential of these cards (which doesn't really bother me). I was planning on getting a TUF anyway, but have almost committed to waiting it out until the new year for new cards or hardware revisions.

    Sounds like EVGA are one of the good ones. Reviewers got sent pre production models with 6x POSCAPS, but production models have 1 or 2 MLCC arrays depending on model.
    They've also pretty much confirmed that this is a legit issue.

    https://forums.evga.com/Message-about-EVGA-GeForce-RTX-3080-POSCAPs-m3095238.aspx

    Edited by dfunked09 at 09:56:44 26-09-2020
  • neems 26 Sep 2020 09:51:30 4,929 posts
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    If anybody has one of these crashing 3080s I am willing to take them off your hands for a moderate discount...
  • Fake_Blood 26 Sep 2020 10:57:35 10,619 posts
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    dfunked09 wrote:
    @muddyyfunster
    Yeah, watched that too last night. It's going to be a pretty negligible performance hit, but kind of kills any OC potential of these cards (which doesn't really bother me). I was planning on getting a TUF anyway, but have almost committed to waiting it out until the new year for new cards or hardware revisions.

    Sounds like EVGA are one of the good ones. Reviewers got sent pre production models with 6x POSCAPS, but production models have 1 or 2 MLCC arrays depending on model.
    They've also pretty much confirmed that this is a legit issue.

    https://forums.evga.com/Message-about-EVGA-GeForce-RTX-3080-POSCAPs-m3095238.aspx
    Thatís good news from EVGA, I ordered a FTW3.
  • Rogueywon 26 Sep 2020 12:54:52 9,484 posts
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    Right now, I'd really like to push on with 13 Sentinels on the PS4. But there's this little voice in my head - sounds a lot like my mum - saying "you spent all that money on that gadget, so you'd better use it, young man."
  • brokenkey 26 Sep 2020 13:48:36 10,605 posts
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    Curry's lies.

    Edited by brokenkey at 13:51:11 26-09-2020

    Edited by brokenkey at 14:03:12 26-09-2020
  • Tomo 26 Sep 2020 13:54:23 18,261 posts
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    Not in stock if you add to basket... no availability for delivery or collection.
  • captbirdseye 26 Sep 2020 13:56:45 9,927 posts
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    It generally always has 'availble for collection' ticked.
  • Tomo 26 Sep 2020 13:57:12 18,261 posts
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    Yeah it's the same if you try any of the 3080s.
  • Tomo 26 Sep 2020 14:18:20 18,261 posts
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    I've still got my pre-order active with OcUK, but I'm pretty much ready to pull the plug. Their customer service and response has been woeful. The only thing keeping me is that it seems unlikely that 3080s are going to be (easily) available for 650 for a long while. They've been promising an official system to estimate where people are in the respective queues for their cards, which still hasn't arrived after more than a week, despite the forum cobbling together after a few days. They post vague updates on the forum and when asked reasonable questions about what's going on with deliveries/the queuing system, the best they can muster is basically: "We're working on it. Relax, sit tight."

    All the while, Gibbo is posting pictures of his Ferrari and giving updates on the thousands of pounds he's made from investments in Boohoo shares. Of course, people are free to do what they want with their money, but the arrogance of the place stinks. It's got a bit of a Lock, Stock air about it all. Who knew flogging PC parts could be so lucrative.
  • Rogueywon 26 Sep 2020 14:25:38 9,484 posts
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    Played a good chunk of Control: AWE. I've seen the GPU clock spike to 2030MHz with no stability problems, so guessing I've not got one of the bad ones.
  • muddyyfunster 26 Sep 2020 16:02:13 282 posts
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    dfunked09 wrote:
    @muddyyfunster
    Yeah, watched that too last night. It's going to be a pretty negligible performance hit, but kind of kills any OC potential of these cards (which doesn't really bother me). I was planning on getting a TUF anyway, but have almost committed to waiting it out until the new year for new cards or hardware revisions.

    Sounds like EVGA are one of the good ones. Reviewers got sent pre production models with 6x POSCAPS, but production models have 1 or 2 MLCC arrays depending on model.
    They've also pretty much confirmed that this is a legit issue.

    https://forums.evga.com/Message-about-EVGA-GeForce-RTX-3080-POSCAPs-m3095238.aspx
    Guess I was wrong about omerta then!

    Kudos to EVGA for their transparency & communication.
  • Rogueywon 26 Sep 2020 22:54:35 9,484 posts
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    Based on a couple of days of flogging the thing as hard as I can, it does seem that a 750W PSU is absolutely fine for a 3090, at stock speeds at least.

    Still can't run Crysis, though.

    Edited by Rogueywon at 22:54:48 26-09-2020
  • superdelphinus 27 Sep 2020 01:47:29 10,428 posts
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    Tomo wrote:
    I've still got my pre-order active with OcUK, but I'm pretty much ready to pull the plug. Their customer service and response has been woeful. The only thing keeping me is that it seems unlikely that 3080s are going to be (easily) available for 650 for a long while. They've been promising an official system to estimate where people are in the respective queues for their cards, which still hasn't arrived after more than a week, despite the forum cobbling together after a few days. They post vague updates on the forum and when asked reasonable questions about what's going on with deliveries/the queuing system, the best they can muster is basically: "We're working on it. Relax, sit tight."

    All the while, Gibbo is posting pictures of his Ferrari and giving updates on the thousands of pounds he's made from investments in Boohoo shares. Of course, people are free to do what they want with their money, but the arrogance of the place stinks. It's got a bit of a Lock, Stock air about it all. Who knew flogging PC parts could be so lucrative.
    Iíd say thereís about a 90% chance that orders made at mrsp will be, regrettably, unfulfilled in a few weeks. Nothing they could do about it, you understand, but now you must try and order one of the same cards that is now £70 more expensive because of reasons.
  • captbirdseye 27 Sep 2020 09:27:51 9,927 posts
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    Well, they do pop up on Currys and they haven't amended the pricing structure yet. I think once AMD release their cards and stock becomes a little bit more plentiful then prices should balance out - not for OC though who are always more expensive than everyone else.
  • Fake_Blood 27 Sep 2020 09:51:09 10,619 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:
    Played a good chunk of Control: AWE. I've seen the GPU clock spike to 2030MHz with no stability problems, so guessing I've not got one of the bad ones.
    I looked it up, your card has 2 patches of smaller capacitors out of 6, so should be good.
    I hope nvidia releases that marbles demo theyíve shown off in their presentation, that looked really good. Plus itís playable, which is rather unique for a tech demo.
  • Rogueywon 27 Sep 2020 10:46:52 9,484 posts
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    @Fake_Blood Cheers, I'd tried to look it up myself, but couldn't find anything on my card. Though worth a note of caution here - it's still not 100% confirmed that the capacitor issue is the (sole) cause of problems. That said, mine has been very stable so far and I spent half of Friday and a good chunk of Saturday trying to crash it.

    Having played around with benchmarks, it's an interesting one. Performance gains over the 2080Ti are not uniform. The biggest improvements are in games which either use a lot of RTX features, or else go incredibly hard on the VRAM. In other titles you generally only get the sort of incremental improvements that you get generation-to-generation. But the differences in, say Control (raytracing everywhere) or Serious Sam 4 (masses of VRAM) are much bigger.

    Will be interesting to see how the average tech used in AAA games evolves once the next generation of consoles arrives and developers reset their ambitions according to the new console hardware.

    Edit: oooh, yeah, there's loads more info avaailble now on capacitor setups and it does seem to point to Asus, Gigabyte and Zotac being the risky cards.

    Edited by Rogueywon at 12:18:13 27-09-2020
  • neems 28 Sep 2020 13:42:16 4,929 posts
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    I was under the impression that ASUS were one of the good ones, I thought they used the more expensive capacitors exclusively?

    Anyway, 11 days later, after contacting Amazon again, who contacted OCUK again, and then trying to ring them (OCUK) again, and finally leaving an extremely passive aggressive webnote, I have finally managed to get the pending Amazon Pay charge of £660 cancelled.

    Yay I guess.
  • b-rk 28 Sep 2020 14:23:16 1,465 posts
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    I'm going to wait until AMD release their new GPUs before buying a new card, if the 6900XT falls between the 3070 and 3080 Nvidia will inevitably counter with a 16GB 3070ti anyway so...yeah. Hopefully by then these instability issues will be sorted out. Looking around at some benchmarks of games that use hybrid ray tracing sees disappointing results with Ampere, not really sure what's going on there given the supposed performance advantage gen 2 RT cores are supposed to bring.

    Edited by b-rk at 14:24:02 28-09-2020
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