Building A Gaming PC - Parts Advice Needed Page 237

  • b-rk 18 Mar 2021 11:16:45 1,684 posts
    Seen 22 hours ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    Rogueywon wrote:
    captbirdseye wrote:
    I think Microsoft have been paying attention to Greg's woes :p

    https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/auto-hdr-preview-for-pc-available-today/
    I'll bet you this just turns into an exercise in finding new ways to break Windows HDR.
    This. ^

    Why is HDR on PC such a pain in the arse. I mean, forget about about watching movies with it actually working as it's supposed to, and that bloody toggle for some games but not others. Consoles do this so much better.
  • muddyyfunster 18 Mar 2021 11:23:35 1,058 posts
    Seen 46 minutes ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    Gregolution wrote:
    muddyyfunster wrote:
    OLEDs are great. They have way better viewing angles as well which is important for a TV.

    FALD is expensive, but similar to OLED I think.

    I think people don't typically appreciate the impact of brightness on colour. I'm not taking about the TV setting, I mean the actual amount of light emitted. As an example imagine a Ferrari parked outside. Think about how much deeper a more intense it looks as more sunlight shines on it. It's because of the extra light reflected back. A true high dynamic range allows you to more accurately depict all those shades of red as sun intensity changes and go above SDR peak for a fuller deeper red. An SDR monitor/SDR content will quickly get to the point of 'no more red available'.

    In laymen's terms it'll just look more natural, real and convincing in more lighting conditions.
    But the whole point of needing brightness does diminish when you have pure blacks, that's a fact. You need a lot less brightness to show detailed differences in pure black than you need on an LED which starts at grey.
    True but that only considers dark scenes. The same 'problem' occurs in reverse at the bright end for OLED. The compromise is accepting the image is still a bit dim overall or whiting out the bright areas and losing detail there.

    I'd accept dark detail is typically more important than bright for gaming so OLED wins in that respect. However with a dimmer overall display, you still don't get quite the same punchy (but accurate and not blown out) colours as you do with higher nit displays and personally I can accept ever so slightly worse blacks if colours are better.

    Edited by muddyyfunster at 11:56:29 18-03-2021
  • muddyyfunster 18 Mar 2021 11:50:11 1,058 posts
    Seen 46 minutes ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    Gregolution wrote:
    muddyyfunster wrote:
    FALD is expensive, but similar to OLED I think.

    It's only similar in what's its putting loads of effort into and lots of tech - trying to get better blacks. OLED get this for free. FALD needs tonnes of local array dimming spots to mimic similar, but it's still not as good and costs an awful lot of money to accomplish.
    I personally think good FALD is a better compromise overall than OLED (because it CAN get very close in blacks and still emits double the light), but you are right that it's so expensive that many manufacturers have moved away. Not sure if it's still the case but the best FALD TVs used to be similar price to best OLEDs.

    The absolute best display I've seen was Sony's 'Crystal LED' display at a broadcast convention. It covered an entire wall and could do 1800nits across the whole thing as well as perfect blacks. It was utterly jaw-dropping and I can't wait for it to come to the consumer market:
    https://www.t3.com/news/sony-crystal-led-microled-displays-are-gunning-for-oled-tvs

    Apologies, I'll stop derailing the thread now. I have a bit of a professional fascination with the subject.
  • Gregolution 18 Mar 2021 14:30:48 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    @muddyyfunster mate I've been derailing this thread for about 2 weeks now, don't worry about it.

    Very interesting conversation. So it seems maybe MicroLED is going to be the best but also most expensive. I'll start saving now
  • Gregolution 18 Mar 2021 14:50:26 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    muddyyfunster wrote:
    I'd accept dark detail is typically more important than bright for gaming so OLED wins in that respect. However with a dimmer overall display, you still don't get quite the same punchy (but accurate and not blown out) colours as you do with higher nit displays and personally I can accept ever so slightly worse blacks if colours are better.

    So you actually prefer non OLED tv? I've not seen a TV compare to OLED or get even close to them. The precision of oth picture, the richness of the colour... they're just phenomenal technical beasts. I absolutely love mine. Everything always looks better when I put it on the OLED.

    Edited by Gregolution at 16:09:00 18-03-2021
  • muddyyfunster 18 Mar 2021 22:07:55 1,058 posts
    Seen 46 minutes ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    @Gregolution Yes, sort of. I personally prefer high end LED to OLED because HDR brightness and colour accuracy are most important to me. I'll accept not having those true blacks and excellent viewing angles. I was very torn when I last had to choose and the deciding factor, in the end, was fear of burn-in. My bias lighting also does a pretty good job of tricking the eye into thinking something that isn't quite black IS black.

    Side note, for anything other than an OLED, it's worth trying bias lighting. Any dim white colour behind will help your black perception, but 6500k white also gives your eye the necessary context to accurately perceive colours.
  • Gregolution 19 Mar 2021 10:24:54 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    @muddyyfunster

    colour accuracy? That's the thing I don't get. To my eyes, colours on an OLED are far more rich and vibrant - the picture overall is so much more natural.

    LED tvs look so overbright they're almost painful to look at now after getting used to OLED.
  • Gregolution 19 Mar 2021 12:06:51 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    THFourteen wrote:
    I guess the other thing is do you really want a monitor too bright right in front of your eyes?

    I use the eye saver mode on my G9 during the day otherwise i feel the burn
    Have to say this has been a game changer for me. For work I have 'comfortview' on all day and it's so easy on my eyes. It was a bit much to begin with.
  • muddyyfunster 19 Mar 2021 15:07:59 1,058 posts
    Seen 46 minutes ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    Gregolution wrote:
    @muddyyfunster

    colour accuracy? That's the thing I don't get. To my eyes, colours on an OLED are far more rich and vibrant - the picture overall is so much more natural.

    LED tvs look so overbright they're almost painful to look at now after getting used to OLED.
    I was struggling to find a way of explaining the relationship between peak brightness and colour but found a quote from a dolby vision engineer referring to the drawbacks of SDR:

    "The problem with restricting maximum brightness to 100 nits (as in TV and Blu-ray) is that the brighter the color, the closer it becomes to white, so bright colors become less saturated. For example, the brightest saturated blue on an ordinary display is a mere 7 nits, so a blue sky will never be as bright and saturated as it should be."

    Essentially the same holds true if you can compare an OLED capable of 700nits with an LED capable of 1400nits.

    HDR content should be properly mastered so that for the most part the overall screen brightness isn't excessive. i.e. there's no need for the display to constantly be near the peak brightness and giving you a tan. Rather you want plenty of brightness headroom for when it's required, so that things that are really bright in real life can be portrayed at realistic brightness without losing their actual colour or detail.

    Edited by muddyyfunster at 15:08:21 19-03-2021
  • muddyyfunster 19 Mar 2021 15:15:04 1,058 posts
    Seen 46 minutes ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    Gregolution wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:
    I guess the other thing is do you really want a monitor too bright right in front of your eyes?

    I use the eye saver mode on my G9 during the day otherwise i feel the burn
    Have to say this has been a game changer for me. For work I have 'comfortview' on all day and it's so easy on my eyes. It was a bit much to begin with.
    The ideal settings for text display are very different to video and gaming. You absolutely wouldn't want a massively bright monitor a few inches from your face when working and it's sensible to turn it down.

    This is actually another HDR thing that not all game developers seem to understand. There really should be separate peak brightness controls for the 3D engine and 2D HUD elements. Some games just have one global HDR peak brightness setting, and then still use white fonts (which then are rendered at the peak) for onscreen text. So if you calibrate the game correctly so the 3D world takes full advantage of the entire dynamic range of your display, you also have to tolerate text at maximum brightness searing itself into your eyeballs. That is indeed bloody uncomfortable.

    Netflix on some devices also does this. Prime video is better as they at least allow yellow fonts.

    Edited by muddyyfunster at 15:18:36 19-03-2021
  • Gregolution 19 Mar 2021 18:30:29 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    @muddyyfunster

    I get your comments and quotes about the technicalities, but.... I'm saying that to my eyes the colours on an OLED look much more rich, no matter how the technical details read. An OLED screen does look quite different to anything else and it's usually a thing of beauty.

    I will keep an eye on the micro LED stuff coming though.
  • Malek86 19 Mar 2021 23:26:53 11,915 posts
    Seen 1 hour ago
    Registered 14 years ago
    The stock cooler on this Ryzen 3600 already felt inadequate from the start, and now that the weather is getting warmer, things won't improve for sure.

    I don't want to risk another CPU failure, so I just ordered a Freezer 34 eSports Duo. Not too expensive, and reviews seem very good. My ears will be thanking me as well (not in games though, because the GPU fan noise drowns out everything else regardless).
  • THFourteen 20 Mar 2021 08:34:43 54,352 posts
    Seen 10 minutes ago
    Registered 16 years ago
    With the prices as they are right now you legitimately have to think hard about buying a mid range gaming PC over an Xbox Series X.

    And that pains me to say it as a pc gamer. But to match the performance you will have to spend so much...
  • sherpa1984 20 Mar 2021 08:56:16 882 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 14 years ago
    You say that but I was considering an Xbox Series X or PS5 however theyíre still out of stock so I was thinking... is it feasible to build a console-sized PC for the living room? Iím guessing it would need:

    - micro ATX case
    - Ryzen CPU (less heat than Intel, important for small case?)
    - GPU (the biggest stumbling block due to the shortages)
    - Win10 that boots straight into desktop
    - SSD for fast boot

    Ive got games on Steam and Xbox Game Pass so would want a program to automatically start that:

    1. Could launch games from both apps
    2. Usable with a controller
    3. Could also launch apps such as Netflix

    Not sure if there is such a program- didnít GOG create a Steam-equivalent that can pull from different launchers?

    I appreciate this would cost more for the same performance of the new consoles, itís impossible to get a reasonable priced GPU now and I really regret not buying a Steam Controller which would be perfect for living room PC gaming but anyone know if this is feasible?
  • captbirdseye 20 Mar 2021 09:04:25 10,702 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 16 years ago
    Like TH14 mentioned the PC market is a mess at the moment unless you have endless pots of money and don't mind paying a premium. Getting a GPU is even more hassle than a console currently and the 2nd hand market is a mess until crypto boys fuck off.

    GOG does combine various launchers but not Gamepass. I know others might disagree but I really regret getting Gamepass on PC because it's a pile of shit and now you need to get another launcher for EA game on Gamepass.

    Edited by captbirdseye at 09:05:01 20-03-2021
  • THFourteen 20 Mar 2021 09:47:10 54,352 posts
    Seen 10 minutes ago
    Registered 16 years ago
    Have you tried Playnite? I use it on my GPD Win Max, and its brilliant. Does all the launchers and emulators as well. It also has a nintendo switch theme too, and works with a controller. Way better than GOG IMO. Unfortunately you do need to have all the launchers installed, which i agree is bloody irritating, although i have most of them set to shut themselves down after i start a game. It gives me an almost console like experience on the Max.

    Download
    https://playnite.link/
    Switch Theme :
    https://playnite.link/forum/thread-69.html

    On the PC tho... realistically i am not sure you can get a 4k machine for 1000. You'd want a 3070 at least.

    Edited by THFourteen at 09:48:05 20-03-2021
  • Gregolution 20 Mar 2021 11:08:05 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    THFourteen wrote:

    But to match the performance you will have to spend so much...
    Got that covered LOL. Just installed my 1000 watt platinum PSU. I ...am.... done!
  • Malek86 20 Mar 2021 11:09:29 11,915 posts
    Seen 1 hour ago
    Registered 14 years ago
    THFourteen wrote:
    With the prices as they are right now you legitimately have to think hard about buying a mid range gaming PC over an Xbox Series X.

    And that pains me to say it as a pc gamer. But to match the performance you will have to spend so much...
    Yeah, but to be honest, even without shortages, the consoles would be better value anyway.

    But I'm still more comfortable with mouse and keyboard, plus I can set the game in borderless windowed to alt-tab and browse the web while the next match is loading, not to mention the ultrawide support, and Epic and Twitch giving you all kinds of shit for free... essentially, I'd rather stick to the PC, even if my RX480 is starting to get seriously old at this point.

    I got a Series S for Game Pass and backward compatibility, and that's enough for me. One day I'll manage to upgrade my GPU and all will be fine. One day...

    Edited by Malek86 at 11:11:10 20-03-2021
  • Gregolution 20 Mar 2021 11:12:33 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    @sherpa1984

    I just don't see why anyone would do that. Personally I have no preference for pc or a particular console, they're just things to play games on. I use a PC for what it's good at, strategy games, FPS games with my face right in a giant monitor etc.

    If I want something for the living room, a console beats any PC hands down. Whatever anyone thinks, a PC is *always* more hassle and faff.

    Just get a nice PS5 or Xbox whatever has the games you want to play and use that for the living room. It'll be easier to find one than a GPU anyway.
  • Gregolution 20 Mar 2021 11:30:33 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    Gregolution wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:

    But to match the performance you will have to spend so much...
    Got that covered LOL. Just installed my 1000 watt platinum PSU. I ...am.... done!
    And now my GEFORCE RTX sign on the side of the video card no longer flickers! That was a bit of a sign I needed to upgrade.
  • THFourteen 20 Mar 2021 11:53:56 54,352 posts
    Seen 10 minutes ago
    Registered 16 years ago
    Just installed NiceHash for a laugh.
  • Gregolution 20 Mar 2021 14:59:31 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/blog/asus-rog-strix-xg43uq-gaming-display-with-43-panel-4k-144hz-refresh-rate-and-hdmi-2-1/
  • THFourteen 20 Mar 2021 15:03:49 54,352 posts
    Seen 10 minutes ago
    Registered 16 years ago
    Wonít fit on the desk it needs to fit on sadly. It can cope with 34Ē ultrawide width and nothing wider.
  • Tomo 20 Mar 2021 17:23:55 19,180 posts
    Seen 16 minutes ago
    Registered 18 years ago
    Gregolution wrote:
    https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/blog/asus-rog-strix-xg43uq-gaming-display-with-43-panel-4k-144hz-refresh-rate-and-hdmi-2-1/
    Wowzers
  • Gregolution 20 Mar 2021 17:28:38 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    1000 nits but edge lit.... I'm not sure it's going to be that great for HDR without FALD.
  • Malek86 20 Mar 2021 17:49:37 11,915 posts
    Seen 1 hour ago
    Registered 14 years ago
    Whew, installing that fan took a long time, and my case now is roughly one kilo heavier. But it was worth it to see the temps stay under 65 degrees under Cinebench.

    Edited by Malek86 at 17:50:02 20-03-2021
  • muddyyfunster 20 Mar 2021 18:14:43 1,058 posts
    Seen 46 minutes ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    Looks reasonable. 1000nit peak brightness so good at the top end. Edge lit so blacks might be suspect.
  • Rogueywon 20 Mar 2021 22:09:19 11,357 posts
    Seen 59 minutes ago
    Registered 16 years ago
    Why does the specs-to-price ratio look far better on that 43 inch monitor than on any 32 inch monitor I can find?
  • uiruki 21 Mar 2021 01:12:03 5,767 posts
    Seen 2 minutes ago
    Registered 18 years ago
    My main reservation with using that as a monitor would be the flat VA panel. I can see there being some colour issues on the side if you're too close. I played most of Persona 5 when it came out on a Samsung VA panel TV close up but at an angle and it was generally orange rather than red.
  • Gregolution 21 Mar 2021 11:42:47 11,063 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    Rogueywon wrote:
    Why does the specs-to-price ratio look far better on that 43 inch monitor than on any 32 inch monitor I can find?
    yeah price wise it is very interesting. it's about the same price as my Dell but my dell only gets to 600 nits. These damn nits... never thought I'd be so keen on getting nits.

    Screen quality must be giving up something. After a week or so of using my screen I'm very happy with it. I'll wait until micro LED is mainstream for next upgrade.
Sign in or register to reply

Sometimes posts may contain links to online retail stores. If you click on one and make a purchase we may receive a small commission. For more information, go here.