The Scottish Fitba Thread v3.0 Page 35

  • AaronTurner 29 Dec 2018 19:37:33 10,232 posts
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    Watching the Edinburgh derby there and camera cuts to a close up of a hibs fan shouting "fucking black b******" at a hearts player. What a turd of a human being.
  • Armoured_Bear 29 Dec 2018 20:20:38 25,100 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    Watching the Edinburgh derby there and camera cuts to a close up of a hibs fan shouting "fucking black b******" at a hearts player. What a turd of a human being.
    Turd isn’t much better than black b****** you know.
  • Syrette 29 Dec 2018 22:46:02 50,059 posts
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    Eh?
  • AaronTurner 4 Jan 2019 18:32:14 10,232 posts
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    It's statement day, lol!
  • docrob 4 Jan 2019 18:44:08 1,067 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    So, anyone watching the Edinburgh derby.
    I have a feeling Hibs will win this one.
    Very glad you turned out to be wrong! The Edinburgh derby is the most one-sided in world football though - Hearts have won more derbies at Easter Road than Hibs, and Hibs would have to win every single derby for about 8 years to even draw level.

    The guy yelling racist abuse at Dikamona: unacceptable, and I hope he is banned for life, but given the publicity given to the lowlives in the Hearts support recently, I won’t judge them all based on the actions of one guy. Most Hibees are decent, if sadly misguided.
  • Armoured_Bear 4 Jan 2019 18:48:38 25,100 posts
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    @docrob
    Fair enough, looked as if Hibs were pounding you in the 2nd half though. 🙃

    BTW What the cnting fuck is going on with the SFA?
    Even by their horrendous standards , the Morelos decision is a new low.

    The desperation to stop 10 in a row will continue to grow.
  • AaronTurner 5 Jan 2019 09:24:42 10,232 posts
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    I see John Beaton has now got police protection.

    For what must be one of the most straightforward and least controversial Old Firm matches I've watched there sure is a lot of nonsense going on. Jesus, I wonder what would happen if we actually won the title.
  • fontgeeksogood 5 Jan 2019 09:50:41 4,280 posts
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    Shameful from Celtic
  • AaronTurner 5 Jan 2019 09:57:53 10,232 posts
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    To be fair I think the statement from Rangers that named Collum overstepped the mark too, however the fallout from this game is pretty astonishing. The cries of bias and cheating is absolutely ridiculous. The stats are there for anyone to see, Celtic concede the fewest fouls per game and they also concede far more fouls per yellow card than any other team in the SPL. For the record Rangers are bang average in the league for fouls conceded and yellows awarded and are we the most heavily penalised team when it comes to red cards, by a distance.

    The thing that bothers me about the latest match is the completely unbalanced reaction, the only talk is of Morelos and nothing else.

    Edited by AaronTurner at 09:58:46 05-01-2019
  • Armoured_Bear 5 Jan 2019 10:35:15 25,100 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    To be fair I think the statement from Rangers that named Collum overstepped the mark too, however the fallout from this game is pretty astonishing. The cries of bias and cheating is absolutely ridiculous. The stats are there for anyone to see, Celtic concede the fewest fouls per game and they also concede far more fouls per yellow card than any other team in the SPL. For the record Rangers are bang average in the league for fouls conceded and yellows awarded and are we the most heavily penalised team when it comes to red cards, by a distance.

    The thing that bothers me about the latest match is the completely unbalanced reaction, the only talk is of Morelos and nothing else.
    They concede the fewest fouls because they are technically the best team and have the highest possession ffs.

    I'd love your deluded la-la land explanation of how anyone can see this and think "yeah, that's fine".
  • Armoured_Bear 5 Jan 2019 10:35:43 25,100 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    I see John Beaton has now got police protection.

    For what must be one of the most straightforward and least controversial Old Firm matches I've watched there sure is a lot of nonsense going on. Jesus, I wonder what would happen if we actually won the title.
    Police protection from the other brothers down the lodge.
  • the-cozen-show 5 Jan 2019 10:39:25 422 posts
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    referee was bad but celtic were worse.

    rangers dropping the away allocation is some real tiny man syndrome nonsense
  • Armoured_Bear 5 Jan 2019 10:47:15 25,100 posts
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    the-cozen-show wrote:
    referee was bad but celtic were worse.

    rangers dropping the away allocation is some real tiny man syndrome nonsense
    The SFA were worse than the referee, quite blatant cheating.
  • AaronTurner 5 Jan 2019 10:51:16 10,232 posts
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    Well the allocations weren't fair though, we were giving a whole stand to Celtic and we received a crummy corner back with a lower percentage of the overall attendance. It didn't make sense, and despite all the stuff about the atmosphere suffering etc. actually the atmosphere was incredible.

    By the way Rangers had a very credible penalty claim dismissed and also had to make do with the usual Scott brown dirty studs up challenge that no-one appears to be talking about. So the ref may have been crap, but the claims of bias are nonsense.
  • Dgzter 5 Jan 2019 14:48:32 2,514 posts
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    I’m not too fussed about Morelos, per se; it was a fairly uncontroversial game, in which Celtic were convincingly beaten. To my mind, the issue is with the retrospective sanction mechanism for dangerous conduct: it clearly needs reviewing, as it is demonstrably not fit for purpose—and the responsibility for that lies not with the officials, but with the SFA.

    Now if a referee fails to see an incident during the course of a game then so be it. Those that want to shout conspiracy theories may do so, but these things DO happen in football. What is inexplicable, however, is a situation where retrospective action cannot be taken against an offending player because of some archaic loophole. In other words, just because a referee claims that he/she DID see the incident(s), and took what he/she perceived to be appropriate action at the time, the governing body—whom, lest we forget, are intended to be the ultimate arbiters—should not be excused from subsequently reviewing the validity of that decision, especially in cases where dangerous play may well have occurred.

    My issue with Celtic’s statement is that it looks to be playing the man (Beaton) and not the ball (the SFA). Ironically, however, it may well be that only by asking a referee to explain his/her decisions, are we then able to establish whether or not their initial interpretation is compatible with the video evidence. Should it not be—that is to say, what they thought they saw isn’t what actually happened—then it surely demonstrates how imperative it is for the governing bodies to step in, in order to apply retrospective action with a view to eradicating violent conduct on the field.

    It strikes me that this would be to the benefit of ALL teams and ALL players in the league. Which probably explains why it will never happen under the tenure of our esteemed SFA.
  • Dgzter 5 Jan 2019 14:55:05 2,514 posts
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    I see we’ve signed Oliver Burke on loan from West Brom. Can’t say I know much about him. Any thoughts? Celtic do need to sign another striker this month, that’s for certain.

    Think Steven Davis is potentially a very sensible signing for Rangers. They’ve done well there.
  • AaronTurner 5 Jan 2019 15:02:16 10,232 posts
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    The retrospective action stuff is all over the place and needs looked at, although I'm starting to think we should just be done with it and get VAR. Case in point being the Candieas red card this season, simply because it was two utterly ridiculous yellows it can't be appealed. The system is not fit for purpose.

    Officiating as a whole needs a review, the leniency concerning "tough" tackling needs to be completely got rid of. The amount of serious injuries from tackles that don't even get a sniff of a card is a joke and a detriment to our game.

    Burke is a bit of a wild card, I'm interested to see how he does, along with Gauld if he comes back.

    Edited by AaronTurner at 15:03:00 05-01-2019
  • Gaol 5 Jan 2019 17:16:22 3,366 posts
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    Celtic have had it their own way for years; one wee defeat from Rangers and the usual conspiracy pish is unleashed. Pathetic.
  • Armoured_Bear 5 Jan 2019 17:25:43 25,100 posts
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    Gaol wrote:
    Celtic have had it their own way for years; one wee defeat from Rangers and the usual conspiracy pish is unleashed. Pathetic.
    I’m still waiting for an explanation of how anyone can seriously think that Morelos shouldn’t have been punished.

    The standard of refereeing in Scotland is appalling, seems to be getting worse rather than better.
  • Gaol 5 Jan 2019 17:37:58 3,366 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Gaol wrote:
    Celtic have had it their own way for years; one wee defeat from Rangers and the usual conspiracy pish is unleashed. Pathetic.
    I’m still waiting for an explanation of how anyone can seriously think that Morelos shouldn’t have been punished.

    The standard of refereeing in Scotland is appalling, seems to be getting worse rather than better.
    Brown had a studs up challenge and like someone previous said we we denied a clear penalty. Thing is, it's OK to say the ref has missed something or had a shit game, that's football and opinions, we've been there ourselves several times this season; it's when it moves into SFA conspiracy and death threats within a week of the first derby defeat in God knows how long, it's completely over the top.
  • Dgzter 5 Jan 2019 18:35:37 2,514 posts
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    Whereas I’d like to think most adults in the discussion are talking less about SFA conspiracies and more about SFA ineptitude—which affects ALL teams in the league.

    Aaron’s example above about the ridiculous double-yellow for Candeias, and Rangers’ inability to contest it due to head-scratching SFA regulations, is a case in point. The retrospective sanction mechanism needs to be reviewed, especially in cases where dangerous/violent conduct may have occurred. It’s not fit for purpose, and affects everyone.

    RE: Morelos. By all means do indulge in your whataboutery—I can see the argument about Brown’s challenge and the potential penalty—but it doesn’t change the incidences of violent conduct committed by Morelos. He should be held accountable for them—just as I would expect him to be were he a Celtic player. As a result of the SFA’s ineptitude, he will now be able to play in a number of games for which he would otherwise have been suspended. Those teams (not Celtic, it should be noted) might be quite rightly peeved should he end up scoring against them, or being instrumental in winning the game for his team.

    I hadn’t realised that it had been a confirmed death threat Beaton received. That’s absolutely awful.

    Edited by Dgzter at 18:40:13 05-01-2019
  • AaronTurner 5 Jan 2019 19:00:38 10,232 posts
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    I don't think there is anyone suggesting Morelos didn't deserve something, but why is all the attention on Morelos? Scott Brown did a number of dirty things during the game (which he gets away with time and again with none of this nonsense) and as I said, we were also denied a very credible penalty. If Morelos is looked at then Brown should be too, although going by the last game I'd say it's a positive for Celtic if he's suspended. And how do we retrospectively get a penalty decision?
  • LionheartDJH 5 Jan 2019 19:28:11 20,274 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    The retrospective action stuff is all over the place and needs looked at, although I'm starting to think we should just be done with it and get VAR. Case in point being the Candieas red card this season, simply because it was two utterly ridiculous yellows it can't be appealed. The system is not fit for purpose.
    Agreed on VAR, would hopefully stem the flow of the bile that comes from both sides after a contentious OF game.

    However, assuming you're talking about the St Mirren game, Candeias dismissal was appealed as (hilariously) 'mistaken identity' and upheld based on video review: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3490112/rangers-daniel-candeias-st-mirren-sfa-willie-collum/

    If you're going to so overly exuberantly celebrate scoring a goal against bottom of the league strugglers in a game you should easily be winning and then rub an opponent's face in it after a late second goes in, then justifiably you deserve to be sent off.

    Also note accusing the ref of 'underlying issues', pot kettle black when it comes to conspiracy claims against officials.
  • Dgzter 5 Jan 2019 19:34:44 2,514 posts
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    I’d imagine the attention is more on Morelos because he individually committed three separate acts of “violent conduct” in a high profile match. I can’t recall three from one player in a Celtic vs Rangers match before, on either side, so it does seem excessive (I’m open to being corrected on this point, of course).

    Happy for you to extrapolate on ‘dirty things’ committed by Brown—I mean this sincerely, by the way, as I’m abroad at the moment and only caught ten minutes of the game when it was played. Everything I’ve watched since is purely in highlight form. Should any of those incidents you refer to constituent violent conduct, then they should absolutely be looked at as well, no doubt. It’s actually pretty core to the point I’m trying to make, which is that it is to the benefit of ALL teams that the SFA get their finger out on this issue.

    And, of course, you’re right: you cannot get a retrospective penalty, obviously. The discussion really can only revolve around incidences of “violent conduct”, where a player isn’t appropriately penalised.

    Edited by Dgzter at 19:43:11 05-01-2019
  • Dgzter 5 Jan 2019 19:45:23 2,514 posts
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    Craig Moore! Craig FUCKING Moore. I take it back, I can remember lol :-P
  • AaronTurner 5 Jan 2019 19:46:16 10,232 posts
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    LionheartDJH wrote:
    AaronTurner wrote:
    The retrospective action stuff is all over the place and needs looked at, although I'm starting to think we should just be done with it and get VAR. Case in point being the Candieas red card this season, simply because it was two utterly ridiculous yellows it can't be appealed. The system is not fit for purpose.
    Agreed on VAR, would hopefully stem the flow of the bile that comes from both sides after a contentious OF game.

    However, assuming you're talking about the St Mirren game, Candeias dismissal was appealed as (hilariously) 'mistaken identity' and upheld based on video review: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3490112/rangers-daniel-candeias-st-mirren-sfa-willie-collum/

    If you're going to so overly exuberantly celebrate scoring a goal against bottom of the league strugglers in a game you should easily be winning and then rub an opponent's face in it after a late second goes in, then justifiably you deserve to be sent off.

    Also note accusing the ref of 'underlying issues', pot kettle black when it comes to conspiracy claims against officials.
    What? I think again you are talking about situations you are clearly not fully understanding.
  • AaronTurner 5 Jan 2019 19:50:45 10,232 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    Craig Moore! Craig FUCKING Moore. I take it back, I can remember lol :-P
    I remember a game where Craig Moore was running alongside Hartson and Hartsoj reached across and punched him full in the face without even a foul given! Fun times.

    But seriously, I dont understand why the number of instances matter, do we only take action when a player does three things (by the way I totally don't agree that there are three card worthy incidents, but I do think there are two)? Are we able to get away with one? Or two? When do we draw the line?

    Of the top of my head I remember Brown doing a studs up challenge on Candieas and also giving Arfield the elbow when running alongside him.

    Edited by AaronTurner at 19:51:03 05-01-2019
  • Dgzter 5 Jan 2019 20:02:48 2,514 posts
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    Ha! Yes, well, you’ll get no arguments from me that Hartson was a vicious bastard at times: I was at his debut away in Kilmarnock, a long time ago, and he committed one of the worse challenges I believe I’ve ever seen on a football pitch. No card. Craig Moore, though. Fuck me.

    I don’t think the number of incidences necessarily matter, I was just pointing out that it’s likely why you’ve got the more hysterical elements screaming about conspiracies.

    I’d also agree on the 2/3 with regards to Morelos, which is why I put “violent conduct” in double quotation marks. By the letter of the law, it could be charged as such, but a lot of similar nonsense goes on all the time, which though not an excuse makes me less bothered—rightly or wrongly.
  • LionheartDJH 5 Jan 2019 20:14:21 20,274 posts
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    @AaronTurner well firstly I agreed with you about introducing VAR so we must be on the same level of understanding about that.

    You said the Candeias red card wasn't appealed but I linked you the evidence that it was. So can you explain how am I not understanding that situation?

    I don't think it's a misunderstanding for me to suggest that Rangers fans are being a bit hypocritical criticising Celtic fans for making accusations of ref bias and conspiracy against them, when there have been multiple instances this season of Rangers doing the same thing (the Collum comments linked above, Stevie G's comment "Rangers don't get decisions" after the first league game etc.).

    For the record I think both clubs are as bad as each other for this tittle tattle nonsense (Neil Lennon's reign at Celtic being a case in point), so I'm not solely criticising Rangers.

    I think everyone can agree that the standard of officiating in Scotland (and many other leagues) could be improved, but surely that leads to the obvious conclusion that bad decisions are down to the ability (or lack thereof) of the officials, or just plain human error, rather than any bias.
  • AaronTurner 5 Jan 2019 21:02:01 10,232 posts
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    Mate, I just think you don't bother reading my posts and for some reason you hate rangers/me.

    I said that rangers can't appeal Candieas 2 yellows/red because that's true, rangers can't appeal them. The only possible avenue available within the rules was to appeal on was mistaken identity, which is ridiculous but that was the whole point - there is no suitable mechanism so it was the only one available to rangers. Rangers didn't stupidly just select to appeal mistaken identity. Regardless, if you think a player should be red carded for blowing kisses whilst running past another player then you and I will never agree, any attempt to suggest either of his yellows were OK simply shows a lack of understanding of the game. Also, Ferdinand clearly tries to body check Candieas before he blows his kisses, follows by Ferdinand headlocking and punching Candieas in the face - and it was only Candieas that got penalised.

    Also, as I said above, I didn't agree with Rangers statement on referees. However, I think the officiating leaves a lot to be desired and we need to do something about it.

    Also, I'm not sure if you realise but the whole blowing kisses thing is just a cover up for a mistake, no one in their right.mind actually believes that's what collum sent Candieas off for. He just fucked up badly and retrospectively saw a way out. If he had sent Candieas off for the celebrations why did Candieas have the time to stroll away from the fans, walk halfway up the pitch, get himself in a headlock with Ferdinand and then punched in the face before being sent off?

    Edited by AaronTurner at 21:03:03 05-01-2019

    Edited by AaronTurner at 21:19:08 05-01-2019
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