The Scottish Fitba Thread v3.0 Page 54

  • Armoured_Bear 19 May 2020 12:04:11 30,537 posts
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    So, season is over.
    Tbh I find it hard to give that much of a fuck about football right now but even though the SPFL are clowns, I think it makes sense.
    Rangers fans' moans are laughable when 13 points behind and 6 games to go, I do love that Rangers voted Yes in the end :)
    I have more sympathy for Hearts but basically they ended up in that position because they made a baffling, horrendous managerial appointment.

    I'd actually like league contruction and bigger leagues, say 3 x 14 team leagues so even if it happened for the wrong reasons (to keep Hearts up)it would be for the best IMO. Shame the chance isn't being taken.
  • Armoured_Bear 19 May 2020 12:05:11 30,537 posts
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    Also..

  • Dgzter 8 Aug 2020 15:25:12 3,614 posts
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    Week 2 of Scottish football in a Covid world and we already have a game cancelled as several Aberdeen players are needing to self-isolate.

    Scheduling is going to be some fucking laugh this year.
  • docrob 10 Aug 2020 22:24:59 1,777 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    So, season is over.
    Tbh I find it hard to give that much of a fuck about football right now but even though the SPFL are clowns, I think it makes sense.
    Rangers fans' moans are laughable when 13 points behind and 6 games to go, I do love that Rangers voted Yes in the end :)
    I have more sympathy for Hearts but basically they ended up in that position because they made a baffling, horrendous managerial appointment.

    I'd actually like league contruction and bigger leagues, say 3 x 14 team leagues so even if it happened for the wrong reasons (to keep Hearts up)it would be for the best IMO. Shame the chance isn't being taken.
    No, Ann Budge should never have let Levein manage the team again, and should have sacked him sooner. She always was too close to him TBH.

    Everyone else is absolutely loving our enforced demotion, which is predictable. But it was bullshit and we were absolutely right to take the challenge as far as possible. Any other club would have done the same if they had been stitched up that badly. Aston Villa stayed up after being further adrift than Hearts when play was suspended, and I think none of the bottom four in the English Championship at the time were relegated. You canít say any team deserves it after three-quarters of a season.

    We are where we are though. Hearts now donít play until October, though TBH Iím so sickened by the corruption that oozes throughout Scottish football that Iím finding it hard to care all that much right now.
  • Armoured_Bear 10 Aug 2020 23:15:56 30,537 posts
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    docrob wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    So, season is over.
    Tbh I find it hard to give that much of a fuck about football right now but even though the SPFL are clowns, I think it makes sense.
    Rangers fans' moans are laughable when 13 points behind and 6 games to go, I do love that Rangers voted Yes in the end :)
    I have more sympathy for Hearts but basically they ended up in that position because they made a baffling, horrendous managerial appointment.

    I'd actually like league contruction and bigger leagues, say 3 x 14 team leagues so even if it happened for the wrong reasons (to keep Hearts up)it would be for the best IMO. Shame the chance isn't being taken.
    No, Ann Budge should never have let Levein manage the team again, and should have sacked him sooner. She always was too close to him TBH.

    Everyone else is absolutely loving our enforced demotion, which is predictable. But it was bullshit and we were absolutely right to take the challenge as far as possible. Any other club would have done the same if they had been stitched up that badly. Aston Villa stayed up after being further adrift than Hearts when play was suspended, and I think none of the bottom four in the English Championship at the time were relegated. You canít say any team deserves it after three-quarters of a season.

    We are where we are though. Hearts now donít play until October, though TBH Iím so sickened by the corruption that oozes throughout Scottish football that Iím finding it hard to care all that much right now.
    What is the corruption that caused Hearts to be relegated ?
  • Roos-V 10 Aug 2020 23:23:57 478 posts
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    What has happened to Hearts (and Partick and Stranraer too) has been a complete shambles. Partick most of all, point behind with a game in hand and still been sent down. I was glad Hearts fought their corner with it, albeit expected them to get nowhere with it.

    St Mirren last season were worse off than Hearts were after 30 games. They stayed up. Last season, not one team bottom after 30 games in all 4 divisions in Scotland went on to be relegated. Not saying Hearts would have stayed up, but we deserved the chance on the field, not voted out by those around us.

    Budge got it very wrong with Levein and with Stendel it may have been a case of right man at the wrong time.

    Biggest concern for me with the championship due to start in October is it actually starting. Think that start date was agreed on the basis of getting some fans into games. With Aberdeen and now Bolingoli all flouting the rules I can't see fans in stadiums by October. How many championship clubs are going to be able to afford twice weekly testing on top of their player salaries without the income from crowds? Premiership could also pull the ladder up and have no relegation next season due to these "unprecedented" times. Wouldn't put it past them
  • Dgzter 11 Aug 2020 15:23:39 3,614 posts
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    So fucked off with Bolingoli. What an absolute moron. I hope they throw the book at him.

    That's both Celtic and Aberdeen now had their next two games cancelled. So three SPL games in total so far already needing to be rescheduled. And it's, what, week 2? Jesus.
  • Armoured_Bear 11 Aug 2020 20:29:29 30,537 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    So fucked off with Bolingoli. What an absolute moron. I hope they throw the book at him.

    That's both Celtic and Aberdeen now had their next two games cancelled. So three SPL games in total so far already needing to be rescheduled. And it's, what, week 2? Jesus.
    Yep, sack the idiot immediately.
  • Roos-V 14 Aug 2020 09:35:41 478 posts
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    So the SPFL's method of punishing Aberdeen and Celtic(or their players) is to prevent Hearts from training having started back two weeks ago.

    They are not even subtle with this, Hearts being the ONLY club negatively affected by this announcement and are now out of pocket for wages (having taken players and staff off furlough) and COVID-19 testing. Nice wee passive aggressive way to ensure we are financially punished without actually fining us.

    I know I'm likely pissing in the wind ranting here as most of you won't care about the Scottish game. And therein lies the issue. Tinpot clubs with tinpot authorities. Absolutely hate Scottish football right now.
  • docrob 14 Aug 2020 13:01:18 1,777 posts
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    Roos-V wrote:
    So the SPFL's method of punishing Aberdeen and Celtic(or their players) is to prevent Hearts from training having started back two weeks ago.

    They are not even subtle with this, Hearts being the ONLY club negatively affected by this announcement and are now out of pocket for wages (having taken players and staff off furlough) and COVID-19 testing. Nice wee passive aggressive way to ensure we are financially punished without actually fining us.

    I know I'm likely pissing in the wind ranting here as most of you won't care about the Scottish game. And therein lies the issue. Tinpot clubs with tinpot authorities. Absolutely hate Scottish football right now.
    Yep, exactly this. Someone joked on Twitter a few days ago that Aberdeen and Celtic players had broken the rules, so how would the SFA & SPFL punish Hearts for it? Well, feck me if they didnít find a way. Top tier clubs can carry on, but nobody else can train. Who were the only club currently training? Ah yes.

    In response to Armoured Bearís question above: firstly, Hearts werenít relegated, but demoted. Last place with 8 games unplayed doesnít mean relegation - just ask Aston Villa. Secondly, the corruption is pretty plain. Dundee voted No to ending the season. This is known. It turned out this was the casting vote, and it was somehow mislaid (nobody has adequately explained how). They were then persuaded to change their vote. Nobody knows exactly how this was achieved, but itís pretty clear that they didnít cast their second vote under the same conditions as everyone else. The vote to end the season should have failed, we would have finished the season behind closed doors like England did, and none of this mess would ever have happened. If the end result had involved relegation for Hearts, you wouldnít hear a single complaint from me, any more than you would have after we were relegated by our post-admin points deduction a few years ago. But thatís not what happened. The SPFL has decided the season had to be ended prematurely, no matter what, and Hearts and Partick were just unimportant collateral damage.
  • docrob 14 Aug 2020 13:01:19 1,777 posts
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  • Dgzter 14 Aug 2020 13:33:53 3,614 posts
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    Why were Hearts the only club training, incidentally?

    IĎm genuinely sympathetic to the Hearts and Patrick fans (most of them, anyway) that got fucked over, but it still strikes me as more a product of endemic incompetence than systemic corruption. I agree it was all an absolute farce.

    Iím not trying to bait you, but what is the general consensus amongst Heartsí supporters about why the SFA & SPFL had it in for their club specifically?

    Edited by Dgzter at 13:34:28 14-08-2020
  • Vortex808 14 Aug 2020 14:13:31 15,251 posts
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    They were awful all season. Someone had to go down and someone had to come up.

    SPFL incompetence aside. If Hearts weren't at the bottom of the table it would not have happened.

    I do feel for them, although more so for Partick who were closer to the other teams above them and with a game in hand (i think).

    It was a difficult decision for the spfl I'm sure and certainly not pleasant for those relegated. I also feel trying to deny promotion for those at the top of their leagues lacked a bit of class.
  • docrob 14 Aug 2020 14:20:19 1,777 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    Why were Hearts the only club training, incidentally?

    IĎm genuinely sympathetic to the Hearts and Patrick fans (most of them, anyway) that got fucked over, but it still strikes me as more a product of endemic incompetence than systemic corruption. I agree it was all an absolute farce.

    Iím not trying to bait you, but what is the general consensus amongst Heartsí supporters about why the SFA & SPFL had it in for their club specifically?
    A number of reasons, I guess. We have long-term injuries that need to get match fit (Haring, Souttar). We still have a Scottish Cup SF to play (now at a considerable disadvantage, of course - I wish they would tell them to shove it). And better to have the players training than sitting idle. I reckon the club want to smash the Championship even harder this time than last (when Hibs and Sevco were in it and we won it before Easter).

    Regarding why the authorities have it in for Hearts: this is a complicated story. They donít always - though they certainly did during the Vlad years (the low point was when they changed the rules specifically so that they could fine Hearts for what he was saying, when he held no position at the club and was just the majority shareholder). I donít think they were initially against Hearts over the Covid issues - we were just in their way.

    The SPFL were almost indecently keen to Ďcallí the league as it stood. Most other leagues didnít and managed to play to a finish later. Why the SPFL were so desperate to do this isnít clear. They claimed they had to in order to release prize money, but this has since been proven untrue. What seems likely is that it was to do with the paltry TV contract somehow, or that it was pressure from Celtic/Lawell to make Celtic champions so as not to impede the whole 9IAR nonsense. Thing was, if there were to be champions then there had to be relegation too. Nothing involving more games (so no playoffs) but whoever was bottom had to go down.

    The reason Hearts are being targeted now is that SPFL clubs (two excepted) arenít meant to argue and arenít meant to fight back. We are supposed to do what we are told. Hearts had the cheek to actually bring a legal case, which risked bringing all of the incompetence out into the open. Obviously, it was thrown back to arbitration, which must have been a huge relief as it could be conducted in utter secrecy. Having got ideas above our station, I donít doubt that Hearts would normally have been clobbered with a huge fine for going to court, to make an example of us (possibly suspended to give them further leverage). The fact that this didnít happen, and we were fined £2500 along with Partick, I am 100% sure was because the Court of Session judge made a veiled threat that he wouldnít be impressed to see this happen. However, Hearts have been very outspoken about how badly the SPFL and SFA have screwed everything up, and so the clubís card is marked right now.

    My suspicion is that the new fiasco also probably isnít primarily to screw Hearts - itís to protect the TV deal (not suspending the SPL) and to not disrupt Celticís preparation for European matches. But equally, I wouldnít be surprised if the fact it happens to crap on Hearts was seen as an extra bonus. If I am right about this, by the way, you can expect Hearts to be granted a dispensation to train in a few daysí time, as soon as the mediaís attention has moved on to something else. (Odd that all the headlines are about Hearts right now, isnít it?)
  • docrob 14 Aug 2020 14:20:20 1,777 posts
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    Sorry - my phone double posting again.

    Edited by docrob at 14:22:55 14-08-2020
  • docrob 14 Aug 2020 14:31:56 1,777 posts
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    Vortex808 wrote:
    They were awful all season. Someone had to go down and someone had to come up.

    SPFL incompetence aside. If Hearts weren't at the bottom of the table it would not have happened.

    I do feel for them, although more so for Partick who were closer to the other teams above them and with a game in hand (i think).

    It was a difficult decision for the spfl I'm sure and certainly not pleasant for those relegated. I also feel trying to deny promotion for those at the top of their leagues lacked a bit of class.
    Yes. Hearts had been awful, but for 75% of a season. Clubs escape from worse situations every year. Villa would have gone down if England had taken the same approach - they didnít. None of the bottom 4 in the English Championship when play was suspended were relegated. ĎThey were crap all seasoní is just what people say to justify the injustice and make themselves feel better.

    Hearts werenít bottom two games earlier. They might not have been two games later. Of the 8 unplayed games, 2 were v Ross County (who were in free fall).

    Partick were certainly the most screwed over by what happened, particularly as their game in hand had been postponed at the SFAís request for a Cup tie. Equally, Raith were ludicrously fortunate (but clubs donít tend to complain about this).

    Hearts did not try to deny promotion to anyone. They were very clear about this. They sought to overturn their demotion. This could have easily been fixed by a temporary reconstruction, so nobody got screwed - and that was the avenue they pursued. But thatís how the SPFL chose to frame the story, with Hearts as the nasty bad guys (despite the fact that any other club would have done exactly the same, unless they didnít have the funds).
  • Roos-V 14 Aug 2020 14:59:43 478 posts
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    Vortex808 wrote:
    They were awful all season. Someone had to go down and someone had to come up.

    SPFL incompetence aside. If Hearts weren't at the bottom of the table it would not have happened.

    I do feel for them, although more so for Partick who were closer to the other teams above them and with a game in hand (i think).

    It was a difficult decision for the spfl I'm sure and certainly not pleasant for those relegated. I also feel trying to deny promotion for those at the top of their leagues lacked a bit of class.
    Hearts were bottom with 8 games left. So many clubs escape from that kind of position year upon year, all across Europe. Happened in all Scottish leagues last season and happened in plenty of leagues that resumed this season. Had Hearts went down after 38 games instead of 30 I'd have had no complaints (other than the poor running of the footballing side of the club). All the anger aimed at the SPFL from Hearts fans would have been aimed at the club instead.

    The trying to deny promotion wasnt what Hearts wanted to do. They tried to reconstruct, they tried to do no harm. Court was a last resort and those three clubs were the ones who would have been affected had the court ruled in our favour. None of those three clubs have acted well in all of this either, voting against reconstruction whilst benefitting from the sham vote.

    Scottish football is a complete mess right now and I don't see it getting better any time soon.
  • Roos-V 14 Aug 2020 15:00:24 478 posts
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    docrob wrote:
    Vortex808 wrote:
    They were awful all season. Someone had to go down and someone had to come up.

    SPFL incompetence aside. If Hearts weren't at the bottom of the table it would not have happened.

    I do feel for them, although more so for Partick who were closer to the other teams above them and with a game in hand (i think).

    It was a difficult decision for the spfl I'm sure and certainly not pleasant for those relegated. I also feel trying to deny promotion for those at the top of their leagues lacked a bit of class.
    Yes. Hearts had been awful, but for 75% of a season. Clubs escape from worse situations every year. Villa would have gone down if England had taken the same approach - they didnít. None of the bottom 4 in the English Championship when play was suspended were relegated. ĎThey were crap all seasoní is just what people say to justify the injustice and make themselves feel better.

    Hearts werenít bottom two games earlier. They might not have been two games later. Of the 8 unplayed games, 2 were v Ross County (who were in free fall).

    Partick were certainly the most screwed over by what happened, particularly as their game in hand had been postponed at the SFAís request for a Cup tie. Equally, Raith were ludicrously fortunate (but clubs donít tend to complain about this).

    Hearts did not try to deny promotion to anyone. They were very clear about this. They sought to overturn their demotion. This could have easily been fixed by a temporary reconstruction, so nobody got screwed - and that was the avenue they pursued. But thatís how the SPFL chose to frame the story, with Hearts as the nasty bad guys (despite the fact that any other club would have done exactly the same, unless they didnít have the funds).

    Put much better than me Doc
  • docrob 14 Aug 2020 15:21:29 1,777 posts
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    Hearts went down in 2014, due to a 15-point deduction (without it we would have made the playoff spot) and effectively being forced to field an U20 team all season (due to a signing ban and cost-cutting having got rid of all but 3 senior players).

    I honestly donít recall a single Hearts fan complaining about this. We took our medicine, in the knowledge that a price had to be exacted for our financial collapse following the madness of the Romanov years. We went quietly and without complaint, and focused on making a quick return.

    This is different. Very different indeed.
  • docrob 14 Aug 2020 15:21:30 1,777 posts
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  • Dgzter 12 Oct 2020 19:06:06 3,614 posts
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    Lol. So, that's now the fourth Celtic player in isolation following international duty, rendering them ineligible for the game against Rangers this weekend.

    All four players (Edouard, Christie, Bitton, and Elhamed) had apparently posted negative results during testing upon their last day with the squad before joining up with their respective national teams. Crazy times.

    Edited by Dgzter at 19:08:01 12-10-2020
  • Armoured_Bear 12 Oct 2020 19:33:30 30,537 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    Lol. So, that's now the fourth Celtic player in isolation following international duty, rendering them ineligible for the game against Rangers this weekend.

    All four players (Edouard, Christie, Bitton, and Elhamed) had apparently posted negative results during testing upon their last day with the squad before joining up with their respective national teams. Crazy times.
    Total clusterfuck....
  • docrob 12 Oct 2020 23:14:51 1,777 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    Lol. So, that's now the fourth Celtic player in isolation following international duty, rendering them ineligible for the game against Rangers this weekend.

    All four players (Edouard, Christie, Bitton, and Elhamed) had apparently posted negative results during testing upon their last day with the squad before joining up with their respective national teams. Crazy times.
    Given that it used to be a fine old tradition for Old Firm players to be pulled from Scotland squads in midweek, with injuries that miraculously cleared up in time for them to play for their clubs on the Saturday, I hope youíll understand if I say that a bit of a karmic debt may have accumulated over the years!

    (This doesnít happen so much any more, but thatís probably due to designated international weekends as much as anything else)
  • Dgzter 13 Oct 2020 10:38:39 3,614 posts
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    Ha! Sure, I won't deny you the schadenfreude :)

    I wonder what the relative cut off would be for postponing and re-arranging games. Note: I'm obviously not advocating that here, just curious in a hypothetical way.

    Obviously if a whole squad is exposed, as was the case with Celtic and Aberdeen earlier in the season, then it makes sense to move the game. Conversely, it is wholly unreasonable to re-schedule a match (in what is already going to be a super cramped season) if only individual players are ruled out due to, perfectly understandable, restrictions. But I wonder where the tipping point would be?

    Extreme example: five first team players, i.e. half of the out-field squad, being ruled out the day before a cup final?

    Edited by Dgzter at 10:39:17 13-10-2020
  • Armoured_Bear 13 Oct 2020 11:44:11 30,537 posts
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    FFS, it's difficult for me to see the game on Saturday now as that useless prick Doncaster didn't sell the SPFL rights to overseas countries like Switzerland for this season.
    It's amazing how you can be kept in a job that you're so bad at.
  • Vortex808 13 Oct 2020 12:08:59 15,251 posts
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    Doncaster is a clown who should have been punted years ago.

    It bemuses me that the useless twat is still in a job. It's utterly baffling.
  • Dgzter 13 Oct 2020 12:11:51 3,614 posts
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    I fully expect us to get beaten, tbh. We still haven't made any progress in terms of how we start matches, which is usually low-tempo, ponderous, and consistently littered with unforced errors and defensive mistakes. In most cases, we've managed to get over this hump (though sometimes very late in the game) and squeeze out the win.

    Rangers, however, in almost all of our recent meetings have pressed us high and early, typically displaying much more energy. If we concede in the first 20mins, which I think is more than likely, I don't see us clawing it back. Doubly so if Edouard is missing and Ajeti is reduced to an appearance off the bench, following his hammy tweak the other week. No Christie and Forrest also means we'll be creating far less. Can only hope Frimpong plays a blinder, but he's still so young and, if they double up on him, could easily struggle to make a mark.

    Not looking forward to it, at all.
  • docrob 13 Oct 2020 22:02:55 1,777 posts
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    I still think Sevco are a pile of shite, but they seem to have got into the habit of winning. The fact is that a lot of teams are beaten in their heads before they play them or Celtic, no matter who wears the shirts.

    Hearts won the Championship last time we were in it, which was nice, but the big story was that Sevco trailed in a distant second, because Hearts (for once) gave them no respect whatsoever. Which led to some seriously thuggish behaviour (Kenny Millerís deliberate attempt to injure Kevin McHattie sticks out. The bastard didnít even get sent off - the ref gave him a yellow, so it couldnít be upgraded either. Straightest of straight reds youíll ever see).
  • Armoured_Bear 13 Oct 2020 23:56:49 30,537 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    I fully expect us to get beaten, tbh. We still haven't made any progress in terms of how we start matches, which is usually low-tempo, ponderous, and consistently littered with unforced errors and defensive mistakes. In most cases, we've managed to get over this hump (though sometimes very late in the game) and squeeze out the win.

    Rangers, however, in almost all of our recent meetings have pressed us high and early, typically displaying much more energy. If we concede in the first 20mins, which I think is more than likely, I don't see us clawing it back. Doubly so if Edouard is missing and Ajeti is reduced to an appearance off the bench, following his hammy tweak the other week. No Christie and Forrest also means we'll be creating far less. Can only hope Frimpong plays a blinder, but he's still so young and, if they double up on him, could easily struggle to make a mark.

    Not looking forward to it, at all.
    Can't argue with that, Lennon looks clueless at the best of times, never mind in this situation.
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