The Scottish Fitba Thread v3.0 Page 32

  • Armoured_Bear 2 Nov 2018 18:26:49 24,703 posts
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    docrob wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    docrob wrote:

    As a (hopefully) decent Hearts fan, it really rankles that the media are so quick to highlight the sectarian element in our support, but seem curiously blind and deaf to the hate poured out by 50-60k crowds every week in Glasgow. The bottom line is that we are a softer target, and attacking us wonít lead to journos having their windows put in.
    Sorry mate but that's not even close to being true, your fans are in the spotlight because a manager has been attacked for the 2nd time in your ground, as would be the case with any club.
    I wasnít actually talking about the game on Wednesday. Yes, there were bound to be a lot of headlines (though I did think 7 of the 8 stories on the first page of the BBC Sport Scotland site was a bit excessive, given nobody was actually hurt). Particularly in view of the fact Lennon was involved - though saying heís been Ďattacked twiceí is overplaying things (a thrown coin, though not acceptable, is not the same thing as having someone lay hands on you like the previous time (which, lest we forget, happened to Bobby Zlamal this week).

    Iím taking a longer view. Call me cynical, but although sectarianism is Scottish footballís curse and shame, it also keeps the turnstiles clicking and the authorities know it. Hence the fiasco over Rangers going bust and the attempts to pretend it hadnít happened. The authorities are well aware of the scale of the problem in Glasgow, but no real attempts to address it are ever made. The Scottish government had a go with the OBFA, but by all accounts it wasnít great legislation and the opposition parties took great delight in giving the SNP a bloody nose and having it repealed.

    So nobody wants to talk about sectarianism at ĎRangersí or Celtic, but every so often some noise needs to be made about it. So every so often you get a story about sectarian behaviour at Hearts and how awful it is. Never mind that itís 50 people and there are 50,000 people belting out the same songs at Ibrox every week. Disagree with me if you will, but Iíve been seeing this happen for a very long time now. If the authorities ever decide to fine clubs or deduct points for sectarian or offensive behaviour, I guarantee you Hearts will be the first team punished - ludicrous though this will be.
    Where do you get this idea that nobody wants to talk about sectarianism at sevco or Celtic and that Hearts are punished more than the Glasgow clubs?
    BTW you downplaying the coin-throwing as not being an attack is ridiculous, don't you remember Huge Dallas with blood running down his face?
    Calling it an attack is not overplaying anything.
  • AaronTurner 2 Nov 2018 18:29:46 10,097 posts
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    What I don't get is why does he think hearts and Hibs fans are mates but rangers and Celtic fans aren't mates?
  • docrob 2 Nov 2018 19:40:54 1,020 posts
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    OK - Iím bowing out of this now. Iím not going to respond to the last couple of things because Iíve been doing that all day and itís going nowhere. Very little consensus to be found anywhere, so Iíll just reiterate the following:

    All violence is bad
    Anyone perpetrating violence at a match should be identified and banned for life
    Scottish football would be much better off if sectarianism didnít exist.

    Peace and love, and have a pleasant evening.
  • AaronTurner 2 Nov 2018 19:44:35 10,097 posts
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    Sure but it'd also help if you didn't call an offensive song that Hearts fans sing 'a rangers song'.

    It's not the first time I've heard Hearts chants and songs being blamed on rangers fans and I'm sure it won't be the last.

    Anyway, I agree, would love for there not to be any sectarianism, bigotry, racism or other offensive stuff in Scottish football.
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Nov 2018 20:04:42 24,703 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    Sure but it'd also help if you didn't call an offensive song that Hearts fans sing 'a rangers song'.

    It's not the first time I've heard Hearts chants and songs being blamed on rangers fans and I'm sure it won't be the last.

    Anyway, I agree, would love for there not to be any sectarianism, bigotry, racism or other offensive stuff in Scottish football.
    Youíre claiming that itís not a Rangers song ?
  • AaronTurner 2 Nov 2018 20:06:06 10,097 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    AaronTurner wrote:
    Sure but it'd also help if you didn't call an offensive song that Hearts fans sing 'a rangers song'.

    It's not the first time I've heard Hearts chants and songs being blamed on rangers fans and I'm sure it won't be the last.

    Anyway, I agree, would love for there not to be any sectarianism, bigotry, racism or other offensive stuff in Scottish football.
    Youíre claiming that itís not a Rangers song ?
    Do you really need me to explain the intricacies of the point or do you want to think a wee bit longer?
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Nov 2018 20:13:57 24,703 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    AaronTurner wrote:
    Sure but it'd also help if you didn't call an offensive song that Hearts fans sing 'a rangers song'.

    It's not the first time I've heard Hearts chants and songs being blamed on rangers fans and I'm sure it won't be the last.

    Anyway, I agree, would love for there not to be any sectarianism, bigotry, racism or other offensive stuff in Scottish football.
    Youíre claiming that itís not a Rangers song ?
    Do you really need me to explain the intricacies of the point or do you want to think a wee bit longer?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Boys
  • AaronTurner 2 Nov 2018 20:30:49 10,097 posts
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    It's obviously going way over your head.

    If Hearts fans sing a song it's not because Rangers fans made them. Hearts have sung the song as long as I can remember, it's their song, just as if rangers fans sing it it's a rangers song. Calling it a rangers song is simply weak and passing the buck.

    Edited by AaronTurner at 20:31:08 02-11-2018

    Edited by AaronTurner at 20:31:21 02-11-2018
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Nov 2018 20:39:17 24,703 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    It's obviously going way over your head.

    If Hearts fans sing a song it's not because Rangers fans made them. Hearts have sung the song as long as I can remember, it's their song, just as if rangers fans sing it it's a rangers song. Calling it a rangers song is simply weak and passing the buck.

    Edited by AaronTurner at 20:31:08 02-11-2018
    You really are deluded beyond belief.
    From wikipedia :

    The Brigton Boys and their youth wing, the Derry Boys, started to attend association football matches in the late 1920s and early 1930s. During this time, they attended Rangers matches and Rangers fans started to sing the Billy Boys song as part of a perceived affiliation with the Brigton Boys


    Rangers fans continued to sing the Billy Boys in tribute to Fullerton as he still retained a prominent position among Glasgow Protestants even after the gangs had disbanded.[8] The Orange Order then adopted the "Billy Boys" song and changed the lyrics to be played on Orange walks, with the references to Billy being altered to refer to King William III of England, Scotland and Ireland.

    It's a Rangers song and has been for almost a century, the knuckle draggers of the Hearts support singing it does not change that.

    I mean, FFS.
  • AaronTurner 2 Nov 2018 20:42:40 10,097 posts
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    Face palm.
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Nov 2018 23:49:29 24,703 posts
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    http://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Nov 2018 23:49:30 24,703 posts
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    http://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html
  • AaronTurner 3 Nov 2018 08:00:55 10,097 posts
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    Letís face it, Lennon is a complete knob end who antagonizes and goads people, he strives to create reactions. Itís not bigoted to say that, itís clear as day in all the videos and recordings captured of him being a fucking bell-end.

    He also shouldnít receive death threats or be attacked. No one should.

    Is he attacked because heís a NI Catholic that played for Celtic or because heís a knob? Well, I donít recall paddy McCourt or Niall McGinn receiving the same ire. I canít think of any Irish players that played for Celtic that have received that kind of treatment either. Generally because they arenít utter dildos.

    There probably are people out there that hate him purely because of his background, but there are a whole lot of people out there who just think the man is a knob-end with a screw loose. That isnít bigoted.
  • Dgzter 3 Nov 2018 10:55:08 2,416 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    Is he attacked because heís a NI Catholic that played for Celtic or because heís a knob? Well, I donít recall paddy McCourt or Niall McGinn receiving the same ire. I canít think of any Irish players that played for Celtic that have received that kind of treatment either. Generally because they arenít utter dildos.
    But thatís a false dichotomy, Iím afraid. Iím sure youíd agree that he can be Ďattackedí for both reasonsóand he frequently is.

    I emphasise Ďattackedí because I also think we really need to define our terms here: are we referring to the times that he has been physically assaulted? Subjected to demonstrably sectarian chants and death threats? Or when heís been criticised for being an unquestionable arse at times? Itís unhelpful to try and roll all of these into one because we end up in the situation we have now: different camps playing down the severity of one aspect, or blowing out of proportion the severity of the other.

    Did Lennon get hit by a coin, following his gesture during the week, because whomever threw it thinks heís a knob, or because he knows heís a NI Catholic that played for Celtic? Likely the former, Iím sure weíd agree.

    Did those idiots resposible for that effigy on display in the crowd at the start of the game (before a ball was kicked), which depicted Lennon being strung up and hung on the gallows, do so because they think heís a bit of a knob, or did that come from a far more insidious place? Iíd suggest the latter, but youíre free to disagree with me.

    With regards to McCourt or McGinn, Iíd say that neither were remotely as Ďhigh profileí as Lennon in terms of their association with the international team for NI. They were also subsequent to his playing days.

    All I can tell you is from my own experience at the time of being a season ticket holder at Parkhead, and also a member of the away ticket club, which happened to encompass Lennonís full playing career with us. I heard the chants with my own ears at grounds across Scotland: not just Ibrox or Tynecastle, pretty much all of them. I particularly recall some nasty stuff being shouted during a mid-week match I was at in Kilmarnock. This was when Lennon was not even long at Celtic, and a considerable time before he built up this reputation as a wind-up merchant (either as a player or a manager). Now, of course, these were only certain segments of the support; Iím not trying to tar every non-Celtic football fan in Scotland with the same brushóthatíd be ridiculous.

    All Iím saying is, to my mind, the abuse he received very much started out as being sectarianly-motivated. Over time, thatís obviously morphed and expanded the longer heís been in Scotland, as he quite rightly receives a lot of criticism over his professional antics, so it becomes increasingly difficult to separate the sectarian bile from the Ďheís just a cockí pile. But, sadly, Iím convinced that a nasty undercurrent of religious bigotry still underpins a lot of the flack he receivesóthatís just my opinion, though.

    As Lennon pointed out himself, why did none of this stuff follow him to Bolton and his two years there? If heís a bellend as a manager in Scotland, I canít see why he would be any different in England. Yet, it all seemed to go away from his life for that period of timeóonly to then rear its ugly head again when he returned north of the border.

    I just find it all very depressing :(

    Edited by Dgzter at 11:07:18 03-11-2018
  • AaronTurner 3 Nov 2018 12:06:21 10,097 posts
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    Why didn't it follow him to Bolton? I think that's obvious though isn't it? Bolton has no where near the exposure of Celtic and he was shite there. Anyway, his time there was hardly without controversy including knife threats against women and having televised fall ours with his playing staff.

    I hate this notion that any criticism of Lennon is either playing things down or even sectarian in itself. You should be able to examine the reasons behind these things without being accused of playing things down.

    As far as I'm aware there was no effigy, but even so do you think that's only Lennon that gets those? Jesus, just a few weeks back the BBC choose to publish a picture of a large banner with Ryan Jack being decapitated on it as a suitable image for the aberdeen ticket fiasco. Celtic fans hang effigies of rangers fans in the stands. The things are shit but they don't just happen to Lennon.

    He's an unlikeable tit, a lot of fuckwits aim for the lowest insult possible against him, in this case it's sectarian insults. These are totally wrong and I hope anyone caught doing it is prosecuted to the full extent. I hate this element in the rangers support, there is a lot I would change. In saying that, I personally don't know any Rangers fans that do or say anything sectarian so I'm always astonished when there are claims that the majority of rangers fans are like that.
  • AaronTurner 3 Nov 2018 14:26:52 10,097 posts
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    As far as I can see it Candieas just got 2 yellows for celebrating our 2 goals and was sent off. This is our game.

    Edited by AaronTurner at 14:27:03 03-11-2018
  • AaronTurner 3 Nov 2018 14:36:58 10,097 posts
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    Oh no, actually Candieas got punched in the chin by Ferdinand and and then got sent off for it.
  • Armoured_Bear 3 Nov 2018 15:05:46 24,703 posts
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    The usual fuckton of whatabouttery rather than admit that Scotland still has a massive problem with anti catholic/Irish bigotry.
    Pathetic.
  • AaronTurner 3 Nov 2018 15:18:55 10,097 posts
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    Hmm. I think Scotland has a lot of problems, but they aren't all because of rangers fans which is what you seem to think.
  • Armoured_Bear 3 Nov 2018 15:22:11 24,703 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    Hmm. I think Scotland has a lot of problems, but they aren't all because of rangers fans which is what you seem to think.
    Do you have reading difficulties?
  • Armoured_Bear 3 Nov 2018 15:23:21 24,703 posts
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    Celtic battering Hearts, only 1-0 but wave after wave of attack. Címon!
  • AaronTurner 3 Nov 2018 15:23:56 10,097 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    AaronTurner wrote:
    Hmm. I think Scotland has a lot of problems, but they aren't all because of rangers fans which is what you seem to think.
    Do you have reading difficulties?
    You clearly do given your posts over the last 24 hours.
  • Armoured_Bear 3 Nov 2018 15:29:08 24,703 posts
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    2-0
    This may not be a pleasant score for the Jambos.
  • AaronTurner 3 Nov 2018 15:31:43 10,097 posts
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    By the way that's exactly what I mean, any kind of examination into why Lennon gets abuse is generally met with someone gicing out about it. It's completely ridiculous.
  • Armoured_Bear 3 Nov 2018 15:34:39 24,703 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    By the way that's exactly what I mean, any kind of examination into why Lennon gets abuse is generally met with someone gicing out about it. It's completely ridiculous.
    Youíre exactly the problem, I imagine you need to examine why women get raped, eh?
  • AaronTurner 3 Nov 2018 15:42:04 10,097 posts
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    Jesus Christ.

    Face palm.
  • Armoured_Bear 3 Nov 2018 15:42:53 24,703 posts
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    3-0, Celtic flying \o/
  • Armoured_Bear 3 Nov 2018 15:44:17 24,703 posts
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    Haha, Celtic fans singing ďThereís only one Neil LennonĒ.
  • AaronTurner 3 Nov 2018 15:49:33 10,097 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    AaronTurner wrote:
    By the way that's exactly what I mean, any kind of examination into why Lennon gets abuse is generally met with someone gicing out about it. It's completely ridiculous.
    Youíre exactly the problem, I imagine you need to examine why women get raped, eh?
    So basically the only explaination you're willing to accept is that people abuse Lennon because he is a Catholic from NI that played for Celtic. I'm glad you're so open to looking into the situation.
  • Armoured_Bear 3 Nov 2018 15:54:16 24,703 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    AaronTurner wrote:
    By the way that's exactly what I mean, any kind of examination into why Lennon gets abuse is generally met with someone gicing out about it. It's completely ridiculous.
    Youíre exactly the problem, I imagine you need to examine why women get raped, eh?
    So basically the only explaination you're willing to accept is that people abuse Lennon because he is a Catholic from NI that played for Celtic. I'm glad you're so open to looking into the situation.
    Enjoy your victim blaming .
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