| I adore the games but I still don't have the first clue about the basic story. They do feel a step above your average AAA game, just the level of detail is incredible. All the games stick with me long after in a way most - your Halos, Fables etc. - just don't. |
Metal Gear Solid V: Phantom Pain • Page 2
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nickthegun 87,711 posts
Seen 5 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoThe story isnt really a step up. Its your usual interminable japanese nonsense about what its like to be human and childish ruminations on global politics.
If you take the story points in isolation, its absolutely laughable but everything is so rich and dense it kind of glosses over it. -
@wogsy81 Great post. I have similar feelings for the franchise. I remember MGS2 coming in the post, the first time I'd used Amazon or any internet purchasing and playing the shit out of that game, including the dread that I would be playing as someone that wasn't Snake. My best mate got me into MGS1 as I didn't have a PS1 and he managed to get a pirate Japanese copy of it, didn't understand what the hell was going on but it was such a new, crazy experience. Then the complete isolation left in MGS3, magic.
@CosmicFuzz I think A lot of people gave up on the ending with it being about an hour and a half. But yeah, David Hayter is Big Boss in 3 and the other iterations, but played by Kevin Doyle in 4 (as he's died like 2-3 times before! Don't know how / why he developed the English accent though?) -
http://www.icvdforums.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php?t3425.html
This is brilliant and makes me want to go home and play them all again. I appreciate this is completely unnaceptable but I didn't know/completely bloody forgot about the whole two Snakes thing. I am though tbf, completely fucking useless at following stories in games. Can't remember anything about Bioshock for example despite knowing I loved the story. -
RE: the story, they seriously need to take a step back and realise that most people coming to these games need to be treated as new to the series.
This new game apparently acts as a prequel to the original Metal Gear, a reasonably obscure NES game that never even came out in a lot of Europe or America.
It's all very well having a wider universe and story, but by continuing to make every game so hugely tied into the narrative of the others, they are essentially alienating pretty much everyone that will play the game. -
I think that is what makes them so good though. As daft as it might sound I liked the fact that there was this whole world that I was just peeking into, that there was backstory and motive to the characters and the player isn't treated with kid gloves. It's a bit like what made The Wire so good (please note that for the love of jebus I'm not comparing the story in MGS to the masterpiece that is The Wire), it made no concessions. You either caught up or you didn't (and you could still enjoy the experience regardless). I wish more games were like this. -
I just think they need to tweak the balance a bit. Again, nothing wrong with a rich wider universe but you should still feel like you have a sense of understanding of the plot/narrative.
The original Star Wars does this brilliantly. You get the sense you're right in the middle of a big story, but you're still actually introduced to everything and everyone in quite gentle ways. -
Yeah I will agree with you there. The fact that I have played and loved them all but am still fairly ignorant of the story speaks to that. -
It also means you're not really the audience I'm referring to. -
King_Edward 11,470 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 11 years agoI think MGS4 is the only game that's really heavily tied to the others. I haven't played Peace Walker, but 1, 2 and 3 are all mostly self contained, with nods to other games in the series, and some recurring characters. MGS4 was 100% for the fans and extremely difficult to get into from outside, but I would tar the whole series with the same brush.
Edited by King_Edward at 12:59:15 28-03-2013 -
MGS was pretty self-contained but I wouldn't say the same about MGS2. It was a very direct sequel with an awful lot of links. MGS 3 was the frist prequel to in some senses that allowed it to stand-alone (although it still linked heavily) and then all the others since imo have been heavily buried in the overall narrative. -
King_Edward 11,470 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 11 years agoI can see what you mean in MGS2, but I always felt playing as Raiden instead of Snake made it more welcoming to newcomers, or gayer, depending how you feel about Raiden. .gif)
Also I'm obviously not the demographic you're talking about either, as I polish my Kojima Shrine nightly.
Edited by King_Edward at 13:12:22 28-03-2013 -
kalel wrote:
Okay, so what audience is that?
It also means you're not really the audience I'm referring to. -
kalel wrote:
new to the series.
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Seems a bit too sweeping to actually be a point Kalel. Plenty of people were new to the series with 2, 3 and 4 and love it. Going to have to be a bit more specific. -
I don't have to do anything. I'm just posting my opinion. -
Em, well I wasn't trying to order you about so no need to get your knickers in a twist. I just thought you might like to expand upon your point as I don't think it makes much sense. If you don't want to, fair enough. We are talking about a computer game after all. -
Big-Swiss 9,455 posts
Seen 3 days ago
Registered 18 years agoyou both need to face each other in a cyborg sword fight! who wins is right! -
I'm saying that it's a series that's been going on a long time, and for them to keep assuming that everyone playing it has extensive knowledge of previous games (especially considering how incredibly dense the plot of those games is), is unsustainable.
It is merely my opinion, but I think it might be an idea for them to "reset the agenda" a bit as it were, and start making these with a fresher audience in mind (plot wise). -
bobdebob 601 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 10 years agokalel wrote:
They'd have to reboot the entire storyline to make some overarching sense, Kojima will have actually have to research things he only thinks he knows about (e.g. basic, basic knowledge of how genes work, that nanomachines aren't little robots, etc), people in the MGS universe will have to learn to stay dead, that going beyond triple- (or even double-) agent is just stupid, and nanomachines shouldn't be able to do everything.
I just think they need to tweak the balance a bit. Again, nothing wrong with a rich wider universe but you should still feel like you have a sense of understanding of the plot/narrative.
Maybe Kojima will surprise us with how he's going to handle the 'taboo' subjects in the next game, though I highly doubt it. -
King_Edward 11,470 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 11 years agoYeah, he should make it boring like that.
If Snake is working for any less than 8 competing agencies, and fight against giant "nano-machines" the size of sky scrapers, I'll die inside.
Edited by King_Edward at 14:18:02 28-03-2013 -
mowgli wrote:
What mowgli said.
Yeah I will agree with you there. The fact that I have played and loved them all but am still fairly ignorant of the story speaks to that.
I personally haven't a fucking clue whats going on in the MGS story but i bloody love it all the same.
Everyone is saying "complete MGS Peace Walker" before playing MGS5 as it follows on from that.
The thing is that ive completed MGS PW twice. Once on my psp and once on my 360 but i haven't the foggiest whats going on. I don't really care to be honest.
All i know is that im playing a badass guy who must infiltrate a base and try to do it as sneakily as possible. Thats good enough for me.
I understood MGS1 (ps one) but after that i totally lost track.
I seriously can't wait for this game. -
I'm really not saying the whole approach to MGS needs to change. It just might be time to address newcomers to the series again (much as they did with MGS). -
kalel wrote:
To be fair, you could level the exact same thing at Halo (most casuals would have missed 1 and 2 on Xbox 1 and started with 3 on 360). In fact you could probably level the exact same thing at most story-heavy continuation franchises.
I'm saying that it's a series that's been going on a long time, and for them to keep assuming that everyone playing it has extensive knowledge of previous games (especially considering how incredibly dense the plot of those games is), is unsustainable.
It is merely my opinion, but I think it might be an idea for them to "reset the agenda" a bit as it were, and start making these with a fresher audience in mind (plot wise). -
meme wrote:
You could, and perhaps Halo might want to consider the same. However, the density of plot in Halo isn't in the same league as MGS.
kalel wrote:
To be fair, you could level the exact same thing at Halo (most casuals would have missed 1 and 2 on Xbox 1 and started with 3 on 360). In fact you could probably level the exact same thing at most story-heavy continuation franchises.
I'm saying that it's a series that's been going on a long time, and for them to keep assuming that everyone playing it has extensive knowledge of previous games (especially considering how incredibly dense the plot of those games is), is unsustainable.
It is merely my opinion, but I think it might be an idea for them to "reset the agenda" a bit as it were, and start making these with a fresher audience in mind (plot wise).
Also, while I appreciate that even if you don't know what the fuck is going on another game there's still fun to be had, Halo doesn't expect you to sit through 40 minute long cut scenes. -
That's true, though I'm not sure it's such a big barrier to entry. I played through Peace Walker without having completed MGS2 and 3 (and not even touching 4), and barely remembering what happened in MGS1, and had little problems with the story. -
MGS gets away with it to an extent because the story elements are frankly too fucking ridiculous to ever take in. -
bobdebob 601 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 10 years agoKing_Edward wrote:
I want to see an MGS movie and I want to see the fan reaction to it.
Yeah, he should make it boring like that.
If Snake is working for any less than 8 competing agencies, and fight against giant "nano-machines" the size of sky scrapers, I'll die inside.
It would either be so heavily revised for it to make a jot of sense or stay true to Kojima's vision that without gameplay it's script problems become magnified. -
It would be about ten hours long. -
It would have to be written by a western screen writer or you would end up with unintelligible garbage like Spirits Within.
.gif)
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