|
Interesting episode of Beeb 2's "The Tribe" last night...which raised a nice little philosophical question in my head I thought I'd share... In the documentary, the presenter went through a tribal initiation ceremony which involved taking a drug made from Buti roots...the effect of these root shavings was to make the person taking them REALLY see what they were like from the inside out. It gives a person such a strong sense of recall, and of their childhood that they see exactly what the root effects were of any wrongdoing they've ever done during their lives... Not sure of the science but I guess it taps into your deep subconscious and conscience and basically makes you see what you've done to other people - if indeed you've ever done anyone any harm. Even the relatively harmless "kids" stuff you've done, like saying something hurtful can come back and haunt you during the process. So here's the question...do you reckon you could safely say hand on heart that you could go through the process of taking that root and come out of the other side relatively unscathed? Yes or no would do but if you wanna go into detail, the sharks are circling  Peej |
Are you as nice as you think you are?
-
pjmaybe 70,666 posts
Seen 12 years ago
Registered 20 years ago -
Decoded 4,426 posts
Registered 18 years agoI think everybody must have hurt somebody during their life, even if it wasn't intentional. And no, I wouldn't want to go through that process.
/shudder -
Ginger 7,256 posts
Seen 2 weeks ago
Registered 19 years agono, but everyone's been a bit of a bastard in their lives, haven't they?
/looks nervous -
pjmaybe 70,666 posts
Seen 12 years ago
Registered 20 years agoI doubt anyone's been nice all their life. For instance, I know I was a complete little shit when I was a tearaway teenager, and I think if I went through the process that's where it'd dump me back first of all...
Question really is, are you aware of a sense of guilt about anything semi-serious enough to be shitting yourself at the prospect of taking something that would really hammer it home to you?
Peej -
Lutz 48,870 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 18 years agoI KNOW I'm not nice in many aspects. I have an awful lot of flaws, and a really dark area of the soul that is quite scary to look at.
Memory wise and "actions I have taken" wise, I'd be happy to take the root, and I believe I'd come out of it OK, knowing that yes I've done some nasty shit, and a lot of it for pure and utter selfish reasons.
But that dark corner... that's what scares me... -
Interesting....
/Rubs chin.
I agree with Decoded though, there must be some point or another that oneself may have affected another persons life in a negative manner.
I can recount a few times myself, kids stuff, but may not have been nice at the time.
Or, I did good, could have built them up for the crushing weight of the world in later life
-
Sounds like my first experience with LSD. And I came out the other side ok....well, apart from the odd naked tree shagging session obviously.
Wibble. -
victor 205 posts
Registered 17 years agoi don' think i'm all that nice, but most of the stuff i've done wrong was due to naivety and misinterpretation rather than malice. That's what i want to believe anyway, not sure if that really makes a difference though.
and anyone who says they're nice all the time are liars obv. IMO. -
pjmaybe 70,666 posts
Seen 12 years ago
Registered 20 years agoMy theory goes something like this...
Most people believe they're genuinely nice. And most people are...but there are a core few that have no conscience, do not care about the consequences of their actions, and these are the people who would probably be most scared of going through a process like this.
Personally I reckon I could come out of the other end relatively unscathed but apologetic to a good few people.
I'd be really morbidly interested to see them try the root out on someone who, say, burgled and mugged people to feed a drug addiction or someone who acted with complete malice to everyone else in the world...
Might be quite a humbling experience for 'em.
Peej -
Lutz 48,870 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 18 years agopjmaybe wrote:
Doubtful. If you have no consequence and don't care about yout actions why would you give a shit if took this? You wouldn't care.
Most people believe they're genuinely nice. And most people are...but there are a core few that have no conscience, do not care about the consequences of their actions, and these are the people who would probably be most scared of going through a process like this.
I think the people affected the most would be the ones who can't control their emotions/thoughts who would then feel a sense of guilt over something.
Or the people who try to be good, but really they're not. These people may suffer the most, but IMO they'd benefit though most too.
I'd be really morbidly interested to see them try the root out on someone who, say, burgled and mugged people to feed a drug addiction or someone who acted with complete malice to everyone else in the world...
Indeed. I 'd like to see the results of that...
Might be quite a humbling experience for 'em.
Peej -
RubyRed 4,303 posts
Seen 3 weeks ago
Registered 18 years agoMy achilles heel is guilt. It takes very, very little to make me feel guilty about something and I am a person who feels the need to justify oneself all the time, or make apologies. So this drug wouldn't do anything to me I hadn't thought about already. But more the point, I've been treated like crap so many times in my life, I can't help but feel it's a matter or karma - what goes around comes around. So, if you've upset someone in the past, tough shit, because they've probably upset you too.
Edited by RubyRed at 09:42:27 25-01-2005 -
mentat 5,613 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 20 years agoSadly, yes i could.
:/ -
marilena 8,238 posts
Seen 2 weeks ago
Registered 18 years agoLutz wrote:
I think the people affected the most would be the people who try to be good, but really they're not.
That would be me. I always wanted to be nice and I used to be liked that, but lately I've discovered that I can be less and less nice to people. It's painful.
But I would definitely go for that experiment. Anything that helps you learn something about yourself is worth it, in my opinion. -
pjmaybe 70,666 posts
Seen 12 years ago
Registered 20 years agoLutz wrote:
Doubtful. If you have no consequence and don't care about yout actions why would you give a shit if took this? You wouldn't care.
That's just it - you have no control over whether you'd care or not, this stuff taps right deep down into..well...almost your SOUL so if a person was genuinely without remorse and had no conscience then this stuff would open 'em up like a cheap clam.
According to the proggy they've used it to reform heroin addicts - using it first as a "put-off" because once you've taken this stuff you never want to take ANYTHING again, and secondly because it really does tap a sense of guilt that most people didn't even think they had.
I like your idea Rubes, I cling to ideas like that - "What goes around, comes around" - Sadly I've yet to witness any instances of someone getting their come-uppance and even if I did I'd probably feel guilty for enjoying their misfortune
Peej -
I think just reading a few of my posts on here is enough to show how much of a prick I am... -
Lutz 48,870 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 18 years agopjmaybe wrote:
No it wouldn't... for it to open them up there's got to BE something to open up. If you've been a misirable bastard all your life and a nasty cunt to all and sundry, then this drug would only work IF you knew, deep down, that you WERE a nasty cunt. If you 100% geniunly thought that your actions were normal, then it wouldn't do anything for you. And believe me, there are people out there who think being nasty is they way you're meant to be, wether they've been raised that way or whatever. The only thing this drug does is shows you a comparrison, a comparrsion to how you are to how you *know* you should be.
That's just it - you have no control over whether you'd care or not, this stuff taps right deep down into..well...almost your SOUL so if a person was genuinely without remorse and had no conscience then this stuff would open 'em up like a cheap clam.
Most people here are nice people, but they can be nasty, often for no reason. The drug will show them what they've done wrong, and why they've done it.
If a person is fully aware of what they've done, and why, and doesn't know any better, then they'll just shrug this off.
According to the proggy they've used it to reform heroin addicts - using it first as a "put-off" because once you've taken this stuff you never want to take ANYTHING again, and secondly because it really does tap a sense of guilt that most people didn't even think they had.
Yeah, IF they have that sense of guilt in the first place. Some people really don't have it. -
Lutz 48,870 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 18 years agocubbymoore wrote:
Well, I didn't want to say, but...
I think just reading a few of my posts on here is enough to show how much of a prick I am...
-
/Is lovely -
sam_spade 15,745 posts
Seen 1 week ago
Registered 20 years agoSupression of memories is there for a reason, it moves the day on beyond the trauma of history.
I remember watching a progam about stage hypnosis and a woman was hypnotised on stage and then had recalls about abuse as a child, which she had supressed in her memory - her dark corner. She had to deal with that all over again and pretty much ruined her life. It's good that she got through it, but did she have to?
So, even if you think you are going in completely innocent, things might turn out a lot different to what you expected. -
Shadrach 1,878 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 19 years agoYes I am.
Now FUCK OFF. -
mentat 5,613 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 20 years agomarilena wrote:
That would be me. I always wanted to be nice and I used to be liked that, but lately I've discovered that I can be less and less nice to people. It's painful.
Rimmer: Well, first I--
Inq: Liar!
Rimmer: I've done good things.
Inq: No you haven't.
Rimmer: In my heart, I've always tried to do good things.
Inq: No you didn't.
Rimmer: Look, in my way I've tried to lead a good life.
Inq: When?
Rimmer: (pause) Ah! What's that in the corner? It's the Archangel Gabriel! Well, that's me converted. I'm a new man. Hallelujah.
Inq: You are a slimy, despicable, rat-hearted, green discharge of a man, aren't you?'
Rimmer: Well, sort of, yes. -
Bsport 153 posts
Seen 11 years ago
Registered 17 years agoi think everyone has a dark side, but its our ability to surpress it that makes us who we are, some ppl can surpress it better than other,
but i would take the root
Edited by Bsport at 10:30:07 25-01-2005 -
How do you define 'nice' though and against what do you measure 'niceness'. Is being 'nice' a good thing? I dont think so.
To me, 'nice' is non-descript and easily forgettable, and I believe that if you think you are really nice then the likelihood is that you are not and are probably self-obsessed....
I would much rather be remembered and get the most out of good debate and causing others to question themselves which I think is healthy. If that means I am not seen as 'nice', or dissident, then so be it! This has nothing to do with being subversive, just a natural urge to encourage the difference of opinion as this is what gives variety and interest to our lives...IMO.
I would take the root. The longer you supress something, the longer it has to grow/fester and become stronger. People have different sides to them and all these sides need to be exercised and allowed to 'breathe' in accomodating circumstances.
Edited by Madder Max at 10:38:59 25-01-2005 -
duncan wrote:
pjmaybe wrote:
Or for that matter someone who sufferes from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, recently ( like in the last 24 hours ) read quite a lot about this... supposedly a lot of memory suppression goes into maintaining their self image... though a complete lack of empathy might counteract the effects.
My theory goes something like this...
Most people believe they're genuinely nice. And most people are...but there are a core few that have no conscience, do not care about the consequences of their actions, and these are the people who would probably be most scared of going through a process like this.
Personally I reckon I could come out of the other end relatively unscathed but apologetic to a good few people.
I'd be really morbidly interested to see them try the root out on someone who, say, burgled and mugged people to feed a drug addiction or someone who acted with complete malice to everyone else in the world...
Might be quite a humbling experience for 'em.
Peej
/sent her a link to the site with the coment use it or ignore up to you, as it's not my problem any more.
for myself... up till 22 i'm very safe plenty of inner self staring whilst on acid has covered that stuff.
Post that hmmm... plenty of fluffy assumptions floating about protecting my sanity.
Also definitely not proud of the two years I spent caning booze and charlie.
would be interesting to know how well I've actually dealt with it.
Have you stopped the caning completely?
Do you or did you ever have problems with panic attacks etc? (After stopping)
If you have not stopped completely even if you have justified it down to once a month or something, you have not dealt with it.
If you did have panic attacks or just intense uncertainty about your own opinions/feelings, then did you ever get to a point where you recognised that these 'episodes' have become fewer and weaker in strength? -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agoI'm more then a little dubious about the claims for this stuff; sounds a little too much like a miracle cure. From my experience with drugs they have a wicked ability to make you think things are true or exist when it's only happening in your mind.
So do the people who have their sense of guilt awoken have to deal with specific issues from their real past or is it a general sense of guilt that the root encourages? If the thoughts were specific then fair enough, otherwise I’d feel it was just the drug fucking with you. And if the recall is of real and specific events then to what extent was the level of their nastiness enhanced by the drug? -
Sid-Nice 15,848 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 18 years agoIf Peej took the root, he'd come out wearing a Burberry baseball cap. .gif)
Edited by Sid Nice at 12:17:50 25-01-2005 -
pjmaybe 70,666 posts
Seen 12 years ago
Registered 20 years agoOf course you're right, now fuck off, there's a good chap...
Madder Max wrote:How do you define 'nice' though and against what do you measure 'niceness'. Is being 'nice' a good thing? I dont think so.
To me, 'nice' is non-descript and easily forgettable, and I believe that if you think you are really nice then the likelihood is that you are not and are probably self-obsessed....
I would much rather be remembered and get the most out of good debate and causing others to question themselves which I think is healthy. If that means I am not seen as 'nice', or dissident, then so be it! This has nothing to do with being subversive, just a natural urge to encourage the difference of opinion as this is what gives variety and interest to our lives...IMO.
I would take the root. The longer you supress something, the longer it has to grow/fester and become stronger. People have different sides to them and all these sides need to be exercised and allowed to 'breathe' in accomodating circumstances.
Edited by Madder Max at 10:38:59 25-01-2005
Holy mother of gawd...that's not quite what I expected to read here but Max, do you really think that's the answer then? That the only way you're going to make your mark on the world is by being a nasty bastard?
Interesting thought actually - History always seems to remember the bad guys longer than the good guys, tis true.
For my part, I'd rather have a bunch of people at my funeral saying nice things about me rather than standing around my grave saying "He was a complete cunt from start to end, and I'm glad the bastard's going to be eaten by worms!"
Watching an interview with the late actor Paul Eddington once, he was asked what he thought he'd contributed to the world and his answer was quite touching...
"I would like to think I'd not ever done anyone any harm.."
What a cool thing to say, and I admire anyone who genuinely does think that there's another way to get through life other than pissing everyone else off just to "make a name for yourself"
Peej -
Not at all. Thats not what I have said. I asked how nice is defined and on what basis. I dont think that to make a point of pissing people off is a good thing. I think that putting forward your opinion (without feeling that you cant, for fear of offending someone else) is healthy and gfood for people. That is true ownership, where you express your opinion and leave it to others (thus giving them choice) to make their own minds up, and not edit what you say.
If editing and changing your opinion to suit others is what 'nice' is defined as, then I am most happy and content to not be known as a 'nice' person. The word 'nice' has no meaning and is in fact insulting, as it means that if you are nice, you are indistinguishable from the next 'nice' person!
Obviously common sense needs to be applied. For example, you would not want to start on about theories on mortality at a funeral!
Edited by Madder Max at 13:12:32 25-01-2005 -
pjmaybe 70,666 posts
Seen 12 years ago
Registered 20 years agoAhhh I kinda see what you mean. What's the difference between being "nice" or just selling out to please everyone else in the world. Tough question, tough answer...
I'll go with the "I won't do anyone any harm" thang and stick with that. I can be a miserable selfish sod when I want to be but if I think it's at the expense of someone who's never done me any wrong or harm, or someone I truly give a shit about then I would feel bad afterwards for days.
Here's an open question to you lot then - When something nasty happens, a confrontation with someone, a slanging match with someone, or (god help us) a physical scrap with someone, how bad do you feel afterwards and does it play on your mind?
Peej -
pjmaybe wrote:
Depends totally on the circumstances. Usually I shrug it off for 30 minutes to calm down and re-asses the situation. Sometimes I'll shrug it off and not care less, usually if IMO they deserved it.
Here's an open question to you lot then - When something nasty happens, a confrontation with someone, a slanging match with someone, or (god help us) a physical scrap with someone, how bad do you feel afterwards and does it play on your mind?
Peej
However I'm the sort of person who will "re-play and edit" things and events in my mind, to see what might have happened had I or someone else done something differently.
.gif)
Sometimes posts may contain links to online retail stores. If you click on one and make a purchase we may receive a small commission. For more information, go here.
