Sony wants a PS4 future without discs Page 2

  • Dirtbox 19 Jun 2013 03:13:52 91,097 posts
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  • RobTheBuilder 19 Jun 2013 03:14:56 6,976 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    RobTheBuilder wrote:
    Personally until I am assured there will competition and fair pricing I won't ever buy a download only console.
    How wonderfully naive.
    I think what you read as naivety, I meant as the point :)
    Console downloads (on a disc free machine) won't have competition, so will never be fair.
  • Dirtbox 19 Jun 2013 03:16:22 91,097 posts
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  • Spectral 19 Jun 2013 03:17:32 6,187 posts
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    @Dirtbox depends on what they offer. I've never spent more than 25 on a downloadable game, including PC. If consoles offer what I want to buy at a price I want to pay for it fine. But I wont simply buy what I'm told at a price I'm told. If that means buying little to no games, so be it.
  • Riven326 19 Jun 2013 03:20:07 57 posts
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    Digital distribution is going to happen one way or another. But the world isn't ready for that on consoles, or at least doesn't appear to be judging by the passionate reaction from gamers towards the Xbox One.

    I think that consoles (and by extension the gamers) will have more difficulty adapting to games only being distributed digitally thanks to unreliable internet connections. Those who aren't PC gamers can still buy a console like the PS4 and enjoy those games offline.

    The only question I have is if consoles adopt a digital distribution-only policy and remove the physical format entirely, will said consoles be like the Xbox One and require an internet connection for all games? If so, does that mean consoles (as we know them, at least) are dead?

    Edited by Riven326 at 03:28:39 19-06-2013
  • Deleted user 19 June 2013 03:20:48
    Dirtbox wrote:
    I'm not saying they should, I'm saying you will.
    Hmm, good argument there, slow clap, etc.
  • spamdangled 19 Jun 2013 03:21:38 31,738 posts
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    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    So in other words, until it's forced on people, digital won't gain enough traction to kill physical media.
    That's pretty much what MS are doing though, and MS have enough money - and certainly the tenacity - to push it and push it until it becomes the accepted norm.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 03:28:41 19-06-2013
  • Deleted user 19 June 2013 03:27:08
    darkmorgado wrote:
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    So in other words, until it's forced on people, digital won't gain enough traction to kill physical media.
    That's pretty much what MS are doing though, and MS have enough money - and certainly the tenacity - to push it and push it until it becomes the accepted norm.
    That's what will make this gen so interesting; the opposing strategies and seeing how they pan out.

    I don't see any real trouble for Sony, but Microsoft could potentially die on their feet with what they're trying, or as you say, they could successfully ram their agenda down everyone's throats and gaming as it currently stands is consigned to history.

    I think watching what happens with the X1 in the post-release come down period will be telling.
  • spamdangled 19 Jun 2013 03:28:48 31,738 posts
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    If MS owned Gaikai or unveil a similar service with the touted almost-immediate play and mimicked the Steam model of constant, regular sales (Daily sales for individual titles as well as large-scale seasonal sales), they would absolutely clean up and disc media would be a thing of the past similar to PC now where it's far more convenient and easier to buy games digitally due to the lack of retail discs and the sheer prevalence of digital platforms. Pair the launch of a service like that with a killer app and they will clean up.

    People bitched and bitched and bitched when Steam was first announced in the run-up to the launch of HL2. What happened? HL2 was released, sold an absolute shit tonne, and BAM! Steam launches with millions of subscribers right off the bat. And despite its initial teething problems (and christ, there were MANY), the same people who were proclaiming that sky was falling in on PC gaming are now still happily playing and if anything the PC gaming scene is stronger than ever.

    A lot of the arguments I hear now being levied against online-only, verifications, etc on consoles are literally identical to the same complaints and outrage about Steam back in the day. Fast forward a few years and now no serious gamer with a PC doesn't have Steam (as well as use other platforms like GOG), disc-based PC games are all but extinct at retail and it's regularly cited as a revelation and significantly praised.

    I can't help but think that console gamers are yet again simply nearly a decade behind the PC gaming scene.

    Now, If Microsoft entered into some sort of partnership with Valve to make an Xbox console built around Steam support... fuck me, I honestly think that they would be unstoppable.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 03:34:05 19-06-2013
  • Dirtbox 19 Jun 2013 03:31:31 91,097 posts
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  • Spectral 19 Jun 2013 03:32:48 6,187 posts
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    But steam isn't as closed as the console online stores. Other retailers sell steam codes, often significantly cheaper than steam do. Also lot also do come with the option of buying a disc version so that steam can install the game from the disc then just download any updates. I just bought a steam code for borderlands 2 for 12.99 despite steams own price being 19.99. That kind of competition wont be there on the consoles.
  • thegofp 19 Jun 2013 03:33:43 169 posts
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    Spectral wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    Like you have any say in it.
    Of course customers have a say. The Go sold like crap even compared to other PSP models which almost certainly led to the Vita supporting physical media.
    Which ironically, is a primarily digital system according to Sony (physical media users make up 40%).

    The world just isn't ready for 50GB game downloads being forced. Fast uncapped internet just isn't readily available in all markets yet. Many UK and Australian ISPs aren't up to par in terms of price or quality... I can't download more than a couple of PS3 games a month. This generation will see an inevitable shift to digital, while Microsoft is taking a mandatory route and Sony will shift more passively.
  • spamdangled 19 Jun 2013 03:34:40 31,738 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    So in other words, until it's forced on people, digital won't gain enough traction to kill physical media.
    That's pretty much what MS are doing though, and MS have enough money - and certainly the tenacity - to push it and push it until it becomes the accepted norm.
    That's what will make this gen so interesting; the opposing strategies and seeing how they pan out.

    I don't see any real trouble for Sony, but Microsoft could potentially die on their feet with what they're trying, or as you say, they could successfully ram their agenda down everyone's throats and gaming as it currently stands is consigned to history.

    I think watching what happens with the X1 in the post-release come down period will be telling.
    There's no 'opposing strategy', they're identical. Sony is just using ms's poor press to get ahead, in 3 years, they'll be utterly indistinguishable.
    The man talketh sense.
  • Deleted user 19 June 2013 03:37:19
    I see console games as being ahead of PC gaming - I like to physically own my purchases, I can play them in a shack in the middle of nowhere as long as I have electricity, etc.

    I'm resistant to change, more so than a lot of people, but I'm resistant here because I'll take the inconvenience of nipping to the shop and looking for a physical title over needing decent internet access every time.

    I'm not trying to play the antagonist, but I genuinely don't have a Steam account (the only games I play on my more than capable PC are emulators) because I looked at the service and how it worked, decided it was not for me and rejected it. I also know plenty of people who are serious gamers with decent PCs who just can't be arsed with Steam, GFWL, Origin, etc.
  • Dirtbox 19 Jun 2013 03:40:17 91,097 posts
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  • Spectral 19 Jun 2013 03:42:41 6,187 posts
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    @Dirtbox And basing the experience on your internet connection isn't really any different. Simply ignoring and disregarding those with slower and/or capped connections. This isn't like the xbox auth where people just need to get online. As ha sbeen pointed out, its a ping, you can use a phone if need be. But for digital distrubution you are talking significant amounts of data.

    Edited by Spectral at 03:45:04 19-06-2013
  • Dirtbox 19 Jun 2013 03:44:00 91,097 posts
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  • Spectral 19 Jun 2013 03:47:15 6,187 posts
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    @Dirtbox and now you just sound like a selfish prick. More people are on capped internet than not so if they dont care they better start caring or they're going to have a problem. Obviously the fact the vita and both new consoles have physical media prove they do care. If they really thought the market and internet infrastructure was up to the task they wouldn't.

    Edited by Spectral at 03:48:29 19-06-2013

    Edited by Spectral at 03:49:39 19-06-2013
  • Dirtbox 19 Jun 2013 03:50:08 91,097 posts
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  • Spectral 19 Jun 2013 03:51:46 6,187 posts
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    Its not that you are in favour of digital distribution. Thats fine but "I care as much about those people as sony, ms or valve do.". Thats you're opinion and it is a selfish one. Just because others share it doesn't make it less so.

    Edited by Spectral at 03:53:42 19-06-2013
  • Deleted user 19 June 2013 03:53:00
    I'm not. How is my ignorance of Steam stupid? Indeed, how is it 'ignorance' at all - I investigated it, concluded that I don't like it or how it works, so I don't use it or spend money on it.

    I'm basing my argument on the fact I paid my way through Uni by working in a videogame shop and know that people have such shitty internet connections that they struggle to download a 100Mb update, never mind a 25Gb retail release which they can't resell.

    People seem to forget that it's not all tech savvy 20/30-somethings with heaps of disposable income and a snappy net connection buying games.

    The companies might be able to move the market over to where they apparently want it, but their market will shrink if not implode on itself in the process.

    Edit - was replying to this
    Just a quick point, but basing your entire argument on your ignorance of a sales platform is the pinnacle of stupid.
    Edited by FuzzyDuck at 03:55:07 19-06-2013
  • Riven326 19 Jun 2013 03:54:01 57 posts
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    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    I see console games as being ahead of PC gaming - I like to physically own my purchases, I can play them in a shack in the middle of nowhere as long as I have electricity, etc.
    It is the advantage of owning a console and something PC doesn't have. But regardless of how resistant to change you may be, the consoles will one day go completely digital. I like to own physical copies of my games as well, but I also use Steam and enjoy it.

    There are benefits to going digital provided the publisher (or in this case, console manufacturer) continues to support their products indefinitely. That's the current problem (among many) facing Microsoft. Unlike Sony and Nintendo, Microsoft is not known for supporting their products after the newer model launches.

    The original Xbox didn't last long at all. I'm curious to see what they do with the Xbox 360 and how the digital content will be provided to players years after the servers are shut down. Will all that content be unavailable from then on out? What about Xbox One? Since it requires an internet connection, once the servers are shut down, does that mean every single game you bought (as well as the console itself) becomes completely useless?

    Valve is a reliable company and would never shut Steam down on purpose and lock everyone out of the games they paid for. Ten years from now, I'll be able to keep playing my Steam games. But consoles (at least the online portion) never lasts forever. So, it will be interesting to see how digital distribution plays out on those machines.

    Edited by Riven326 at 03:55:28 19-06-2013

    Edited by Riven326 at 03:58:18 19-06-2013
  • Dirtbox 19 Jun 2013 03:54:25 91,097 posts
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  • Spectral 19 Jun 2013 03:59:07 6,187 posts
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    Basically if it doesn't effect so you don't give a fuck. You think people are going to just suck it up and take it. But how do you propose they do that on internet connections not up to the task, with none available. More people have slower connections than fast ones. How soon you'd change your tune if you lived in area where the best you could get was 2mbit and a 100-150GB/month usage cap, which is a significant amount of places even in the UK and US.

    Edit: I understood it fine, its how you chose to phrase it that came across as selfish.

    Edited by Spectral at 04:04:55 19-06-2013
  • Deleted user 19 June 2013 04:01:11
    Riven326 wrote:

    It is the advantage of owning a console and something PC doesn't have. But regardless of how resistant to change you may be, the consoles will one day go completely digital. I like to own physical copies of my games as well, but I also use Steam and enjoy it.
    Indeed. Dare I say it, when such a day arrives, unless super fast, reliable broadband is as ubiquitous in homes as running water, then I probably won't bother with games. It's probably a bit blinkered and shortsighted of myself, but save for the few Xbox Live/PSN titles I own, I just can't abide handing over money for something I do not physically own.
  • spamdangled 19 Jun 2013 04:04:12 31,738 posts
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    Spectral wrote:
    @Dirtbox and now you just sound like a selfish prick. More people are on capped internet than not
    So blame your shitty ISP, as it's their fault. Better yet, change your ISP to one that isn't stuck 5 years in the past.

    Who the fuck has capped internet these days?

    Edited by darkmorgado at 04:05:02 19-06-2013
  • Dirtbox 19 Jun 2013 04:04:14 91,097 posts
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  • Spectral 19 Jun 2013 04:06:11 6,187 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Spectral wrote:
    @Dirtbox and now you just sound like a selfish prick. More people are on capped internet than not
    So blame your shitty ISP, as it's their fault. Better yet, change your ISP to one that isn't stuck 5 years in the past.

    Who the fuck has capped internet these days?
    Its actually becoming more common not less. Especially in the US. In a lot of areas there simply is no uncapped option. Even ISP's that claim to be unlimited have a cap in place in the fair use policy. If you go over they slow your connection to a crawl.

    Edited by Spectral at 04:07:32 19-06-2013
  • Dirtbox 19 Jun 2013 04:06:23 91,097 posts
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  • spamdangled 19 Jun 2013 04:11:32 31,738 posts
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    Riven326 wrote:I see console games as being ahead of PC gaming
    /stifles laugh

    It is the advantage of owning a console and something PC doesn't have.
    With all the walled gardens and stagnant tech that comes with it...

    The original Xbox didn't last long at all.
    Because it was never intended to be a long-term system. It was a mission statement and a way for MS to get their foot into the console space late in the last generation. And MS have now gone on record to say that Xbox One games will NOT be deactivated.

    Valve is a reliable company and would never [...] lock everyone out of the games they paid for.
    They do it frequently.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 04:12:08 19-06-2013
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