simsini wrote:No, but it probably would be to suggest that they are a people without culture. |
2022 World Cup • Page 3
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nickthegun 87,711 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoAs a punter, you will have a better time at the Qatar world cup than the russian one. -
twelveways 7,131 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 15 years agoIf they really wanted to build bridges with the rest of the world , they could start by legalising homosexuality, stopping allowing human trafficking and forced labour and by releasing poet Mohammed al-Ajami.
Giving them the World Cup to improve their image (as if FIFA is a global PR company) is kind of like rehabilitating a rapist by giving him a job at a sexoholics clinic. -
twelveways 7,131 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 15 years agonickthegun wrote:
How come?
As a punter, you will have a better time at the Qatar world cup than the russian one. -
kalel wrote:
I think if I have any beef with Qatar its this.
simsini wrote:
What do you mean? Why do FIFA care whether people can drink there or not?
@kalel That would mean FIFA awarding a World Cup based on a huge assumption, rather than the more obvious huge bung.
Look, why do you think Qatar want the WC in the first place? Do you think it's all some massive ploy to get all the world's football fans in one place and then murder them all or something?
It's all about legitimising the UAE and changing the perception of the country in the eyes of the world. That's why they want it. They want businesses and tourists to go there. They're not going to achieve that by refusing to let everyone drink and locking up anyone kissing etc. By the time 2022 comes around Qatar is going to be awesome.
I dont think that they really care that its the World Cup. Its basically a massive vanity project and I think the Olympics, World Athletics or any other huge event would serve this purpose for them - they dont really care that its football in particular.
Compare with Brazil - they almost certainly cant afford it and are sacrificing other public services to do it but there is a genuine passion and football tradition there which is more appealing to me as a football fan. -
nickthegun 87,711 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 16 years agotwelveways wrote:
Better facilities, less corrupt officials, less crime, less violent crime, same level of homophobia.......
nickthegun wrote:
How come?
As a punter, you will have a better time at the Qatar world cup than the russian one. -
twelveways wrote:
OK, fair enough. But sport generally transcends politics, and there has been a history of the WC and certainly the Olympics being awarded to countries who have issues in these areas.
If they really wanted to build bridges with the rest of the world , they could start by legalising homosexuality, stopping allowing human trafficking and forced labour and by releasing poet Mohammed al-Ajami.
Giving them the World Cup to improve their image (as if FIFA is a global PR company) is kind of like rehabilitating a rapist by giving him a job at a sexoholics clinic.
Yes, on the one hand you can call it a PR exercise, and it is, but inclusion is still more progressive than exclusion in my view, and even if it's an arse about tit way of doing it, hopefully things like this will push countries like Russia and the UAE in the right direction. -
imamazed 6,708 posts
Seen 3 days ago
Registered 15 years agonickthegun wrote:
Less vodka though....
twelveways wrote:
Better facilities, less corrupt officials, less crime, less violent crime, same level of homophobia.......
nickthegun wrote:
How come?
As a punter, you will have a better time at the Qatar world cup than the russian one. -
twelveways 7,131 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 15 years agoApart from the homophobia you could have been talking about South Africa, and that one went really well (apart from the fucking vuzevulas and the low goal count). -
nickthegun 87,711 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoI think including the homophobia, to be fair. -
Does a World Cup really leave a lasting legacy of tolerance and understanding after it leaves town via the medium of kicking a ball round a field.?
Personally I have my doubts… -
Alipan wrote:
I can see your point. I would counter by saying that it's perhaps a little romanticised. I suspect from a governmental point of view there's similar motivations behind both bids, and from a people point of view, they actually really fucking love football out in the ME.
I think if I have any beef with Qatar its this.
I dont think that they really care that its the World Cup. Its basically a massive vanity project and I think the Olympics, World Athletics or any other huge event would serve this purpose for them - they dont really care that its football in particular.
Compare with Brazil - they almost certainly cant afford it and are sacrificing other public services to do it but there is a genuine passion and football tradition there which is more appealing to me as a football fan.
But yeah, I get the spirit of the Brazil WC thing and am far more excited by it than I ever would be by one on Qatar. But it's also nice to see what flavour different ones turn out to have. Nobody really liked the idea of a Japanese/South Korea one when it was awarded, but it turned out to be great. -
twelveways 7,131 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 15 years agokalel wrote:
That's true, China, Brazil and South Africa spring to mind; the difference though is that those countries had an active passion for the event, China have always represented well in the Olympics, Brazil is an icon of football and Africa is a continent is mad for football and supplies many of our best players, SA was the only country with the means to host it.
OK, fair enough. But sport generally transcends politics, and there has been a history of the WC and certainly the Olympics being awarded to countries who have issues in these areas.
Yes, on the one hand you can call it a PR exercise, and it is, but inclusion is still more progressive than exclusion in my view, and even if it's an arse about tit way of doing it, hopefully things like this will push countries like Russia and the UAE in the right direction.
It should be a PR exercise for the sport and the players, not for the country who throws enough money. -
nickthegun 87,711 posts
Seen 10 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoIm kind of in favour of the groups in different countries to avoid exactly this kind of gayness. -
simsini wrote:
The question you have to ask is whether inclusion is likely to make the situation better or worse. Whether it validates or shows them another way.
So if inclusion is better than exclusion, what about South Africa's ban from sport due to apartheid or other nationalities sportsmen/women being banned for participating in sport there?
You're also not really comparing like for like. South African apartheid was in a another league when it came to human rights being abused, as bad as Qatar is. -
@twelveways
Again, I think some are underestimating the passion the people of the ME have for football. -
Yeah, it will be an odd one in terms of locals, and plenty of other ways. I just don't think it's going to be an unmitigated disaster, or an event without any merit. -
Frankly it not being in America is a big plus for Qatar afaic.
Edited by kalel at 17:15:20 19-09-2013 -
gammonbanter 2,282 posts
Seen 8 hours ago
Registered 14 years agokalel wrote:
Why?
Frankly it not being in America is a big plus for Qatar afaic. -
'94 wasn't exactly a classic. I certainly don't think it was a characteristic and phenomenal enough event to justify already having a repeat. -
Again, I've seen an American WC, and relatively recently. And it wasn't all that. -
It's just a personal preference. I'm not suggesting that should be the selection criteria. -
brokenkey 11,128 posts
Seen 13 hours ago
Registered 20 years agokalel wrote:
Qatar isn't part of the UAE. They'd probably be quite offended by that.
simsini wrote:
(Yet) again, Qatar are effectively representing the entire ME for this WC, or at the very least the UAE, so it's slightly missing the point to keep harping on about Qatar itself in the way you are.
@kalel When was the last World Cup bid won by a tiny country changing its whole make-up to cater for more visitors than its entire population?
'Borderline racist', oh dear! No open debate with you then, don't like someone, just insult them!
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kalel wrote:
in my experience (I've been to both, twice, in the last 3 years), there is as much boozing and Philippiano prostitution in Qatar hotels as there are Russian prostitutes in Dubai.
simsini wrote:
I'd be extremely surprised if Qatar wasn't exactly like Dubai by the time 2022 comes around, i.e. the average tourist staying in a hotel can behave pretty much exactly as they would on holiday anywhere else in the world within reason.
In any case, we'll see how moderate a country it is when millions of football fans arrive there looking for a beer or God forbid try and kiss their partner (gay or straight).
But the legal system in Qatar is far more oppressive and negative towards non-Qatari nationals than you would experience in Dubai.
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