Ed Miliband the next PM for the United Kingdom Page 2

  • glaeken 24 Sep 2013 16:15:17 12,026 posts
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    @kalel Bring back the man who had a hissy fit and quit when things did not go his way? Hardly seems like leadership material to me.
  • monkman76 24 Sep 2013 16:16:54 14,716 posts
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    boo wrote:

    Person A earns 12,000
    Person B earns 60,000


    B earns 5x more than A.
    B pays 18x more tax than A.

    I haven't worked it out but it looks like you've forgotten that person B only pays 40% on earnings above 32k. Only 20% on the first 32k.

    edit. yeah, person B pays about 7.3 times more tax by my reckoning. Seems reasonable to me.

    Edited by monkman76 at 16:20:26 24-09-2013
  • Deleted user 24 September 2013 16:17:14
    Shikasama wrote:
    That's when politics starts getting really annoying to me, when people start talking about shifting right or left or being middle, or mid left or full back.

    It's all of that stuff that seriously gets in the way of running a country a properly.
    It's a natural result of the party system, and why the system is fundamentally flawed.

    The question is though, is there any system less flawed?
  • TheSaint 24 Sep 2013 16:17:23 18,573 posts
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    Can the government tell private companies what to charge for things?
  • spamdangled 24 Sep 2013 16:17:53 31,738 posts
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    Whenever Letsgo makes political predictions I just remember when he urged people to vote against AV as he thought it would guarantee being offered PR instead.

    Then I laugh.
  • Deleted user 24 September 2013 16:18:52
    glaeken wrote:
    @kalel Bring back the man who had a hissy fit and quit when things did not go his way? Hardly seems like leadership material to me.
    Come on, he's now leader of the Thunderbirds. You don't pass that up.
  • TheSaint 24 Sep 2013 16:19:21 18,573 posts
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    KD wrote:
    The lesser of two evils I see Labour as, they getting my vote.
    Thanks Yoda.
  • President_Weasel 24 Sep 2013 16:20:58 12,355 posts
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    monkman76 wrote:
    boo wrote:

    Person A earns 12,000
    Person B earns 60,000


    B earns 5x more than A.
    B pays 18x more tax than A.

    I haven't worked it out but it looks like you've forgotten that person B only pays 40% on earnings above 32k. Only 20% on the first 32k.
    There are people trying to survive on 12K a year and the thing you're bothered about is that they're not paying much tax?
    Maybe it would be a good idea if you went without a latte so a kid in serious danger of malnutrition could get a half decent meal.
  • Deleted user 24 September 2013 16:21:14
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Whenever Letsgo makes political predictions I just remember when he urged people to vote against AV as he thought it would guarantee being offered PR instead.

    Then I laugh.
    I did not say it would guarantee that at all.

    People said 'vote AV, even if we don't like it, it's a route to PR', wrong. The route to PR is saying no to AV and then forcing MPs to bring up PR.

    Luckily, more people in the UK had sense not to vote for a flawed system which AV is.
  • spamdangled 24 Sep 2013 16:22:04 31,738 posts
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    To be fair, it's not unlikely he will get into government, but it won't be due to any sort of competence or confidence in Labour, more down to resentment towards both of the parties in government.

    Which means we could well end up with a labour-LD coalition after a minority labour win.
  • monkman76 24 Sep 2013 16:22:23 14,716 posts
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    President_Weasel wrote:
    monkman76 wrote:
    boo wrote:

    Person A earns 12,000
    Person B earns 60,000


    B earns 5x more than A.
    B pays 18x more tax than A.

    I haven't worked it out but it looks like you've forgotten that person B only pays 40% on earnings above 32k. Only 20% on the first 32k.
    There are people trying to survive on 12K a year and the thing you're bothered about is that they're not paying much tax?
    Maybe it would be a good idea if you went without a latte so a kid in serious danger of malnutrition could get a half decent meal.
    Not sure who this is aimed at. I'm defending higher tax rates on the higher earners.
  • Deleted user 24 September 2013 16:23:42
    darkmorgado wrote:
    To be fair, it's not unlikely he will get into government, but it won't be due to any sort of competence or confidence in Labour, more down to resentment towards both of the parties in government.
    That's the only reason anyone ever gets in. You get to be in power until the majority of people hate you, then the next guy gets in until everyone hates them. That has literally been what's happened in every general election my whole life.
  • Deleted user 24 September 2013 16:23:44
    nickthegun wrote:
    The most laughable thing is lowering the voting age to 16. I know you can get married and sent to your death by your country at that age, but it doesnt change the fact that 16 year olds are idiots.
    yeah but so are most dicks over 70.

    Don't really take party confernces seriously in an non election year. They consist of cabinet members preaching to the choir promising crap that will be forgotten in 3 months. Ed, Clegg and Dave and their cabinets consist of carrer politicians with no grounding in reality.

    Edited by whatfruit at 16:27:10 24-09-2013
  • CosmicFuzz 24 Sep 2013 16:23:55 32,585 posts
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    President_Weasel wrote:
    monkman76 wrote:
    boo wrote:

    Person A earns 12,000
    Person B earns 60,000


    B earns 5x more than A.
    B pays 18x more tax than A.

    I haven't worked it out but it looks like you've forgotten that person B only pays 40% on earnings above 32k. Only 20% on the first 32k.
    There are people trying to survive on 12K a year and the thing you're bothered about is that they're not paying much tax?
    Maybe it would be a good idea if you went without a latte so a kid in serious danger of malnutrition could get a half decent meal.
    Or he means person B should pay less tax?
  • spamdangled 24 Sep 2013 16:25:11 31,738 posts
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    LetsGo wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Whenever Letsgo makes political predictions I just remember when he urged people to vote against AV as he thought it would guarantee being offered PR instead.

    Then I laugh.
    I did not say it would guarantee that at all.

    People said 'vote AV, even if we don't like it, it's a route to PR', wrong. The route to PR is saying no to AV and then forcing MPs to bring up PR.

    Luckily, more people in the UK had sense not to vote for a flawed system which AV is.
    Yeah, how's that going for you? Seen lots of maps talking about. PR recently? AV would have returned more proportionate levels of MPs for the different parties. The LDs would have used this gateway to further leverage a full move to PR.

    As it is, the Tories and the media framed it and continue to frame it as a vote FOR fptp, and a rejection of all other systems. You're in lollipop land if you think we have any chance of getting PR for at least another few decades. Well done, you played right into the Tory-led No campaign brilliantly.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 16:28:13 24-09-2013
  • TheSaint 24 Sep 2013 16:25:15 18,573 posts
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    I always consider Brighton quite a lefty place, yet when The Today Program were walking the streets asking voters what they thought of Ed they couldn't seem to find anyone who would vote for him.
  • AceGrace 24 Sep 2013 16:25:28 3,189 posts
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    He looks like he should still be in school. Have his balls dropped yet?

    Also, blow your nose!

    All politicians can fuck right off. Only in it for themselves. I still don't know why Tony Blair isn't in prison.

    Edited by AceGrace at 16:25:41 24-09-2013

    Edited by AceGrace at 16:28:51 24-09-2013
  • Deleted user 24 September 2013 16:25:29
    #1mHomes
    #50pTax
    #AxeBedTax
    #25hrFreeChildcare
    #AxeNHSact
    #BankerTax
    #HedgeFundTax
    #TaxCut4SmallBiz
    #SackATOS
    #StateRailCo.
  • boo 24 Sep 2013 16:25:35 13,512 posts
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    I'm not saying the guy on 12k should pay more tax, I'm saying the guy on 60k should pay less.
    Slash public spending, have a considerably smaller, less bureaucratic government, spend public money on essentials and leave more earnings in people's pockets.

    Edit - WTF is wrong with the forum today? Chunks of text just disappearing at random.

    Edited by boo at 16:27:09 24-09-2013
  • AceGrace 24 Sep 2013 16:27:02 3,189 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    I always consider Brighton quite a lefty place, yet when The Today Program were walking the streets asking voters what they thought of Ed they couldn't seem to find anyone who would vote for him.
    You do know the Green Party are in power for Brighton and Hove. :-)

    I blame all the people moving down from london to live a more bohemian lifestyle.

    Edited by AceGrace at 16:31:06 24-09-2013
  • glaeken 24 Sep 2013 16:27:04 12,026 posts
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    Shikasama wrote:
    glaeken wrote:
    @kalel Bring back the man who had a hissy fit and quit when things did not go his way? Hardly seems like leadership material to me.
    Wasn't it more of a case of melding into the background so everyone stopped laughing at Ed and asking when his brother was going to be put in charge?
    That's the spin version. His expressions and body language when he lost did not gel with him being the big man at all. He looked like a man barely able to keep his mouth shut and someone who would not have been able to stop himself from making bitter comments about how it was not fair.

    Of course this is my unsubstantiated opinion.
  • monkman76 24 Sep 2013 16:27:09 14,716 posts
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    @boo In your example the higher earner pays around 7.3 times more tax, on 5x the income. Seems fair enough to me.
  • boo 24 Sep 2013 16:27:59 13,512 posts
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    Fair enough - I was working from someone else's figures, and happy to be corrected.
  • spamdangled 24 Sep 2013 16:29:15 31,738 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    I always consider Brighton quite a lefty place, yet when The Today Program were walking the streets asking voters what they thought of Ed they couldn't seem to find anyone who would vote for him.
    Brighton is mainly Green Party.
  • AceGrace 24 Sep 2013 16:30:39 3,189 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    #StateRailCo.
    Didn't the last labour government promise to re-nationalize the railways as part of their manifesto prior to winning the election?

    That worked out really well.
  • TheSaint 24 Sep 2013 16:33:17 18,573 posts
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    I know that Brighton is currently Green but it was mostly a Labour stronghold from 97 until 2010 so you would imagine Ed would have more support there than a lot of places.
  • TheSaint 24 Sep 2013 16:35:49 18,573 posts
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    monkman76 wrote:
    @boo In your example the higher earner pays around 7.3 times more tax, on 5x the income. Seems fair enough to me.
    That doesn't sound right. Are you taking personal allowance into account?
  • YenRug 24 Sep 2013 16:37:39 4,553 posts
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    They were talking to some Labour wannabe-MP on my local radio, this morning, they were asking why Milliband is such a nobody that anyone would consider voting into power; she responded by repeatedly saying how he was such a charismatic leader, if everyone just gave him the chance.

    I was sat there, thinking, "Why don't you just ask her, if he's such a charismatic leader, why are you here trying to convince me that he is? Surely, if it was so self-evident, we would already know that he is."
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